Bollinger: Florimon is the favorite to start at shortstop

[twinsnorth49]

Funny side story...I coached a lot of Little League and I always had Dads that told me that they played pro or college ball so I would say "Oh that's great Mr Jeter, I will definitely want you out on the field to help me". I would then roll a ball to them and immediately see that they never even played t-ball. Hahaha!!! They played a few years of beer ball and they think that they can carry off that lie. So funny....

 

They must have loved having a smart ass, condescending jerk coaching their children. I'm going to try this when coaching my son's team this year, should make me really popular.

[ThePuck]

 

Funny side story...I coached a lot of Little League and I always had Dads that told me that they played pro or college ball so I would say "Oh that's great Mr Jeter, I will definitely want you out on the field to help me". I would then roll a ball to them and immediately see that they never even played t-ball. Hahaha!!! They played a few years of beer ball and they think that they can carry off that lie. So funny...

 

Did that make you feel better about yourself?

[LoganJones]

What is hard to understand is why we should accept the Twins continually putting so much stock into an intangible quality with no discernible value.

Just because you can't discern it doesn't mean it isn't there.

[twinsnorth49]

Just because you can't discern it doesn't mean it isn't there.

 

If you cant discern it, how do you know that, are you a mystic?

[Boom Boom]

Exactly right, intangibles are a way for organizations to make excuses for poor personnel decisons, despite all the evidence to the contrary,"we know something about this player that actually makes them valuable, we just can't tell you exactly what that is, but trust us, it's there".

 

Conversely, the Twins don't talk about Joe Mauer's intangibles very much because he puts up eye-popping statistics.

[twinsnorth49]

Conversely, the Twins don't talk about Joe Mauer's intangibles very much because he puts up eye-popping statistics.

 

And even more conversely, Mauer critics often cite his lack of "intangibles" as a way to denigrate him, despite all the hard "tangilbles" that actually show he is a great baseball player.

[Nick Nelson]

Intangibles get played up for players who don't put up great (or in Florimon's case, acceptable) statistics.

 

TR and Gardy are basically saying about Florimon, "Ignore the tangible evidence that he's no good and take our word for it that he'll be just fine."

And while I'm willing to believe that there is more than meets the eye with some players, it's awfully difficult to lend any credibility when the Twins use this type of reasoning to make blatantly horrible decisions like choosing Castro over Bartlett, Nishioka over Hardy, or Casilla over anybody. At what point do they take a step back and say, "We need to start reevaluating how we assess the shortstop position"?

[Boom Boom]

And while I'm willing to believe that there is more than meets the eye with some players, it's awfully difficult to lend any credibility when the Twins use this type of reasoning to make blatantly horrible decisions like choosing Castro over Bartlett, Nishioka over Hardy, or Casilla over anybody. At what point do they take a step back and say, "We need to start reevaluating how we assess the shortstop position"?

 

Probably when Gardenhire is no longer the manager.

[FrodaddyG]

At what point do they take a step back and say, "We need to start reevaluating how we assess the shortstop position"?

I'd say not having a former no-hit middle infielder running the show who has a soft spot for, and "sees the value in" current no-hit middle infielders might be a start.

[Nick Nelson]

I'd say not having a former no-hit middle infielder running the show who has a soft spot for, and "sees the value in" current no-hit middle infielders might be a start.

 

He's not the one constructing the rosters, so I'd say the problem goes beyond him.

[FrodaddyG]

He's not the one constructing the rosters, so I'd say the problem goes beyond him.

No, but he's been the one constant throughout his reign, and I doubt he had no say in Castro over Bartlett or Hardy getting the fast track out of town.

[Boom Boom]

No, but he's been the one constant throughout his reign, and I doubt he had no say in Castro over Bartlett or Hardy getting the fast track out of town.

 

Gardenhire favorites Punto, Tolbert, and Casilla couldn't play themselves out of a spot no matter how hard they tried.

[ashbury]

Obviously you don't 'get it'. That's not what I was saying at all. I was saying we regulars don't know what 'controlling the infield' means, but that won't stop some people from saying that its an indication Gardy is full of it.

 

OK, "if you have to ask, you'll never understand" works just as well as a synopsis. That you go on to talk about stopping people from saying certain things is also indicative.

[TheLeviathan]

And while I'm willing to believe that there is more than meets the eye with some players, it's awfully difficult to lend any credibility when the Twins use this type of reasoning to make blatantly horrible decisions like choosing Castro over Bartlett, Nishioka over Hardy, or Casilla over anybody. At what point do they take a step back and say, "We need to start reevaluating how we assess the shortstop position"?

 

Exactly. The Castro over Bartlett one still stands out to me. I don't think anyone disagrees with Gardy in a general sense, I think the disagreement is in how this phrase is used to elevate lesser talents and denigrate others. In fact, I think Casilla was an example of it being used for and against him.

 

I like how others have phrased this and it's an angle I never even considered -these vague intangibles are really being used too heavily to construct our rosters. They are foolish replacements for actual talent and production.

[Nick Nelson]

No, but he's been the one constant throughout his reign, and I doubt he had no say in Castro over Bartlett or Hardy getting the fast track out of town.

True, but there are plenty of people that have to sign off on these decisions and the GM is the one executing them. This is an organizational thing; the Twins seem to evaluate shortstops in a different (and - if the results bear it out - worse) way than other teams in the league. Florimon is a sign that they're staying on that same path, which is frustrating.

[Thrylos]

I think that the Twins just do not have many options here.

 

If not Florimon, then who?

 

55 year old Carroll?

Dozier?

Escobar?

Danny S?

Beresford?

Good Rum?

 

Who?

[Kwak]

Oy. Just thought of those Butera at catcher days with Dozier, Florimon and Butera batting 7-8-9. There should be an asterisk on the opposing pitcher's ERA, not sure he deserves one full IP for getting through those three. Ok, that was harsh, but man. Those three at 7-8-9 is something that should only happen in August when everyone is hurt, not sometime in April when everyone is healthy.

You forgot Valencia in April 2012--ughh that was brutal. The Twins had many horror stories in April 2012, sorry to dig him up, but I thought he batted 6th, so it was 6,7,8, and 9!

[Kwak]

True, but there are plenty of people that have to sign off on these decisions and the GM is the one executing them. This is an organizational thing; the Twins seem to evaluate shortstops in a different (and - if the results bear it out - worse) way than other teams in the league. Florimon is a sign that they're staying on that same path, which is frustrating.

 

+1. Remember when Smith was walking out the door (leaving his head in a basket) and quipped "I wasn't the only one who signed-off on him, only the last signature." Perhaps there should have been several more heads in that very same basket.