2016 Election Thread

[mikecgrimes]

Hillary Clinton doing a very good job calling her friend  and Obama voter Donald Trump a racist.  Good that she's focused on the issues that matter most and not the garbage we saw at republican debates.  Wait wasn't the problem with the Republican debate the focus on Trump?

[mikecgrimes]

So if Donald Trump or Ted Cruz wandered back onto the stage mid question would sorry cut it?

[Brock Beauchamp]

It may not be her point, but she is inferring that.

She wasn't inferring that at all. She was arguing the GOP platform is damaging to women and PoC. You may disagree but given that most women and an overwhelming majority of PoC do not self-identify as republican, the people in question seem to agree with ChiTown.

[TheLeviathan]

 

So if Donald Trump or Ted Cruz wandered back onto the stage mid question would sorry cut it?

 

Well at least you've made the positive step of associating these two guys, their opinions are pretty damn aligned.

[mikecgrimes]

 

Well at least you've made the positive step of associating these two guys, their opinions are pretty damn aligned.

 

Come to think of it Democrats would probably have no problem with Trump.  But god forbid Marco Rubio takes a sip of water.

[mikecgrimes]

 

 

Well at least you've made the positive step of associating these two guys, their opinions are pretty damn aligned.

 

What are Trumps opinions?

[TheLeviathan]

 

What are Trumps opinions?

 

The ones he is stating at rallies and on debate stages.  You know, the ones that are pretty much the same as Cruz.

[mikecgrimes]

 

The ones he is stating at rallies and on debate stages.  You know, the ones that are pretty much the same as Cruz.

 

Which are what?  His opinion is make America great again?  Thats not an opinion.  Maybe pretty much the same as Cruz is his opinion.  I'll ask again and maybe get an answer, what are Trumps opinions you know since you seem to think he's the face of the Republican party and can somehow drag down candidates like Cruz despite the fact he is a friend of the Clintons and an Obama voter, I know I know that's not a Democrat.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Because I'm not a single issue voter, and because if the threat is real even Ron Paul would do something about it.

 

RP has constantly used a CIA term known as 'blowback' as evidence as to why our interventionist policy in the middle east isn't working. Quite frankly, ISIS is exactly what he was referring to with that statement. We destabilized the region and the unintended consequences was precisely that. RP would most definitely do something about it, but it would be a Libertarian solution, certainly not more of the same.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I'm feeling quite the opposite actually. The guy's a side show, and he's not actually going to get many conservative votes. If Trump somehow gets the nomination, the actual sane conservatives just aren't going to turn out to vote. mickmcgrimes got a hard time for the last post, but he's right in that there is a good chunk of conservatives that will disown the guy if they already haven't. Not all, but more than enough.

 

I think Clinton is going to run away with it if Trump ends up on the ballot under any symbol. I think a fiscal conservative could one day take back the White House, but I think the days of social conservatives getting the big job are done. Fair or not, social conservatism is just too tied to oppression, bigotry and hateful rhetoric and with the social media the way it is today far more people like to shame that stuff than embrace it. And again, I'm not saying whether it's fair or not to tie social conservatism to those things, but it just seems they are now.

 

I hope you're right about your first paragraph Nick, (though I'm fairly certain Clinton won't run away with anything, but that's a separate discussion).  I thought Trump would be interesting b/c of the trainwreck that would most likely ensue, but somehow he's managed to dodge it quite well. Poll after poll is saying he could beat Hillary, and I just don't see any Republican capable of mounting some sort surge that could unseat him. Carson is likely the closest, and now that he's been somewhat exposed as a liar that novelty is wearing off. The closest thing that Republicans have to a true breath of fresh air is Rand Paul (and I'm not even a huge fan here, I really liked his dad), but the party brass has gone out of their way to marginalize the Libertarian movement within the Republican party for a good 10 years now. I don't see that changing.

 

As for your second paragraph, Trump running independent is likely the only way Clinton gets in, much like Ross Perot did to get an ensure her husband's victories in 1992 and 1996, but if he's carrying the party nomination, I really don't see her stopping him. Quite frankly, given Obama's poor job and Hillary's history, I don't see the Dems having much of a chance at all in 2016 baring something like a 3rd party run that splits the votes.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'm going to toss a moderator note in here (and I'm saying this as a contributor here as well, and I know other mods are involved too).  This thread is getting a bit heated. Politics can do that. I get that. I know we tend to give a bit more leeway in the sports bar when it comes to things like this, but I'm not seeing how general name calling of various candidates, generalized comments that can appear to be racial stereotyping, etc. is going to encourage any sort of civil discussion (not to mention that it tends to discourage supporters of these people from even bothering to contribute). In the name of civility, let's try to tone down the rhetoric and simply stick to the issues at hand.

 

Thanks.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Which are what?  His opinion is make America great again?  Thats not an opinion.  Maybe pretty much the same as Cruz is his opinion.  I'll ask again and maybe get an answer, what are Trumps opinions you know since you seem to think he's the face of the Republican party and can somehow drag down candidates like Cruz despite the fact he is a friend of the Clintons and an Obama voter, I know I know that's not a Democrat.

 

Is my bar for evidence as ridiculous as yours for Trump as a Dem?  

 

Here, I'll exceed that bar: They both are heavy handed against illegal immigration and against amnesty.  There is plenty more.  Just google candidate positions and match up Cruz and Trump.  Other than outwardly saying "I won't let Muslims in", Cruz is nearly identical.  He prefers Shock and Awe 2, but it's basically the same opinion too.

 

I know you and Gomer are tight, but he's pretty much lock step with Trump.  Hell, they shook hands and talked nicely about each other just recently.  Seems like an odd move for a Democrat....

[Craig Arko]

I wonder who will be the future Edward Gibbon for the USA. No other path seems likely.

[Hrbowski]

 

Is my bar for evidence as ridiculous as yours for Trump as a Dem?  

 

Here, I'll exceed that bar: They both are heavy handed against illegal immigration and against amnesty.  There is plenty more.  Just google candidate positions and match up Cruz and Trump.  Other than outwardly saying "I won't let Muslims in", Cruz is nearly identical.  He prefers Shock and Awe 2, but it's basically the same opinion too.

 

I know you and Gomer are tight, but he's pretty much lock step with Trump.  Hell, they shook hands and talked nicely about each other just recently.  Seems like an odd move for a Democrat....

Shaking hands and talking nicely are an odd thing for a Democrat to do?

[Hrbowski]

 

She wasn't inferring that at all. She was arguing the GOP platform is damaging to women and PoC. You may disagree but given that most women and an overwhelming majority of PoC do not self-identify as republican, the people in question seem to agree with ChiTown.

In what way? Because they believe in the phony War on Women? And because they believe the liberal rhetoric that the GOP wants everybody but the top 1% to be worse off?

[TheLeviathan]

 

Shaking hands and talking nicely are an odd thing for a Democrat to do?

 

With Ted Cruz....yes.

[Brock Beauchamp]

In what way? Because they believe in the phony War on Women? And because they believe the liberal rhetoric that the GOP wants everybody but the top 1% to be worse off?

I stated that most women and PoC are not republican. Do what you will with that information.

 

Personally, I find the GOP platform of chipping away at abortion rights disgusting and until they reel in that segment of the party, they're going to continue to struggle with the female vote.

 

As for the PoC vote, I don't believe the GOP has a snowball's chance in hell of getting that vote (outside of the Hispanic vote, which somewhat aligns with the religious ideals of the GOP but given their immigration policy, probably not).

[mikecgrimes]

 

Is my bar for evidence as ridiculous as yours for Trump as a Dem?  

 

Here, I'll exceed that bar: They both are heavy handed against illegal immigration and against amnesty.  There is plenty more.  Just google candidate positions and match up Cruz and Trump.  Other than outwardly saying "I won't let Muslims in", Cruz is nearly identical.  He prefers Shock and Awe 2, but it's basically the same opinion too.

 

I know you and Gomer are tight, but he's pretty much lock step with Trump.  Hell, they shook hands and talked nicely about each other just recently.  Seems like an odd move for a Democrat....

 

So Cruz agree's with one of Trumps stated opinions in regards to anything that isn't already illegal?  As for Cruz not bashing Trump why would you?   An sane person watches Trump and doesn't need someone else to point out what a reckless idiot Trump appears to be.  Meanwhile Trump has showed that if you do that Trump and his manipulation of the media will make you pay.  If Trump is foolish enough to think Cruz respects him he (or the guy he's pretending to be) is even more of a fool then I originally thought.

[Hrbowski]

 

I stated that most women and PoC are not republican. Do what you will with that information.

Personally, I find the GOP platform of chipping away at abortion rights disgusting and until they reel in that segment of the party, they're going to continue to struggle with the female vote.

As for the PoC vote, I don't believe the GOP has a snowball's chance in hell of getting that vote (outside of the Hispanic vote, which somewhat aligns with the religious ideals of the GOP but given their immigration policy, probably not).

Well, since trying to prevent the murder of innocent people is disgusting, I don't know what isn't.

[twinsnorth49]

 

 

As for your second paragraph, Trump running independent is likely the only way Clinton gets in, much like Ross Perot did to get an ensure her husband's victories in 1992 and 1996, but if he's carrying the party nomination, I really don't see her stopping him. Quite frankly, given Obama's poor job and Hillary's history, I don't see the Dems having much of a chance at all in 2016 baring something like a 3rd party run that splits the votes.

Wow, this absolutely blows me away. You're saying there is actually a chance the electorate in your country would put Trump in the White House? I don't know what to say.

[TheLeviathan]

 

So Cruz agree's with one of Trumps stated opinions in regards to anything that isn't already illegal?  As for Cruz not bashing Trump why would you?   An sane person watches Trump and doesn't need someone else to point out what a reckless idiot Trump appears to be.  Meanwhile Trump has showed that if you do that Trump and his manipulation of the media will make you pay.  If Trump is foolish enough to think Cruz respects him he (or the guy he's pretending to be) is even more of a fool then I originally thought.

 

No one is calling out Trump because no one wants to alienate the conservatives backing him right now and miss out on their votes.  Cruz probably thinks himself the most likely to take those votes if Trump ever comes crashing down.  

 

You can't seriously believe they're avoiding him because his positions are obviously dumb.  They are actively calling each other out (including Cruz and Rubio) for positions they think are anti-conservative.  Which is exactly why they are scared to go after Trump, he has tapped into a huge conservative sect that they want for themselves.  Plus, as Cruz himself says  - he's likes him to leech publicity off of.

 

As for agreeing on just one thing?  Perhaps you should use that google thing I suggested....ah, hell, I did it for you.

[twinsnorth49]

 

In what way? Because they believe in the phony War on Women? And because they believe the liberal rhetoric that the GOP wants everybody but the top 1% to be worse off?

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/images/smilies/facepalm.gif    http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/images/smilies/shakeshead.gif

 

I'm speechless........again.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Wow, this absolutely blows me away. You're saying there is actually a chance the electorate in your country would put Trump in the White House? I don't know what to say.

 

I don't like it any more than you do, but right now, if it was Trump vs. Hillary, I'd put money on Trump winning. For what it's worth, I'd be voting independent.

[Hrbowski]

 

I don't like it any more than you do, but right now, if it was Trump vs. Hillary, I'd put money on Trump winning. For what it's worth, I'd be voting independent.

I would be glad that I'm not old enough to vote. I can't see either of them being a decent president.

[mikecgrimes]

 

No one is calling out Trump because no one wants to alienate the conservatives backing him right now and miss out on their votes.  Cruz probably thinks himself the most likely to take those votes if Trump ever comes crashing down.  

 

You can't seriously believe they're avoiding him because his positions are obviously dumb.  They are actively calling each other out (including Cruz and Rubio) for positions they think are anti-conservative.  Which is exactly why they are scared to go after Trump, he has tapped into a huge conservative sect that they want for themselves.  Plus, as Cruz himself says  - he's likes him to leech publicity off of.

 

As for agreeing on just one thing?  Perhaps you should use that google thing I suggested....ah, hell, I did it for you.

 

Outside of having a general idea what to say now that he's a "Republican" I see very few similarities between Trump and Cruz.  Cruz has a record for fighting for the values that I expect all elected Republicans to fight for Trump is slightly to the left of Bush and has no track record of having any political conviction which probably doesn't matter because he doesn't seem to have any political conviction.

 

If Cruz is elected he's a rare Republican who I wouldn't expect to fall short.  With Trump I just hope the things he fights for aren't the things I oppose which to me makes him no different from Obama and Clinton.  I could say Clinton and Sanders are identical and in a lot of ways they are very similar, but the only thing that counts is potential results and much like Trump and Cruz they are very different.

[TheLeviathan]

 

  I could say Clinton and Sanders are identical and in a lot of ways they are very similar, but the only thing that counts is potential results and much like Trump and Cruz they are very different.

 

You are fabricating what you think will be the results.

 

Their actual stated opinions are highly similar, as the link showed.  If you want to live in your own fabrication, that's fine, but it's not reality.

[mikecgrimes]

 

You are fabricating what you think will be the results.

 

 

 

What.  Listen I'm sorry that I don't trust a guy who voted for Obama, but I don't.  I think it's pretty clear that is not something I'm lying about.  Could he win election and then act like a republican?  Sure.  If he ends up acting like the average Republican thats still a long ways from Cruz, but I suppose him being similar to Cruz is a possibility.  I'm kind of chuckling that I'm even typing that as it just doesn't  as I don't really think things that are one in a million are worth mentioning.  Then again maybe I'm just a big liar and actually think Trump and Cruz are identical Twins.  The fact I'm not convinced Trump isn't still a Democrat is a factor in my honest opinion that I'm probably lying about.  At least I wasn't called racist this time, just a liar.  I get it you don't think Trump will start acting like a Democrat if elected, I don't either, but he will be far more like Bush then Scott Walker or Ted Cruz.  Or in other words probably one of the worst presidents ever.  Can we be done with this or do Democrats have to pretend Republicans are in love with Trump until the election is over?

[twinsnorth49]

What. Listen I'm sorry that I don't trust a guy who voted for Obama, but I don't. I think it's pretty clear that is not something I'm lying about. Could he win election and then act like a republican? Sure. If he ends up acting like the average Republican thats still a long ways from Cruz, but I suppose him being similar to Cruz is a possibility. I'm kind of chuckling that I'm even typing that as it just doesn't as I don't really think things that are one in a million are worth mentioning. Then again maybe I'm just a big liar and actually think Trump and Cruz are identical Twins. The fact I'm not convinced Trump isn't still a Democrat is a factor in my honest opinion that I'm probably lying about. At least I wasn't called racist this time, just a liar. I get it you don't think Trump will start acting like a Democrat if elected, I don't either, but he will be far more like Bush then Scott Walker or Ted Cruz. Or in other words probably one of the worst presidents ever. Can we be done with this or do Democrats have to pretend Republicans are in love with Trump until the election is over?

So wait, it's a fact Trump is actually a Democrat or it's a fact you think he's actually a Democrat?

 

I don't see how the latter can be a fact, outside of one in your own head.

[mikecgrimes]

 

So wait, it's a fact Trump is actually a Democrat or it's a fact you think he's actually a Democrat?

I don't see how the latter can be a fact, outside of one in your own head.

 

He voted for Obama, so I guess it is a fact he seems to be a Democrat most of the time.

[TheLeviathan]

 

He voted for Obama, so I guess it is a fact he seems to be a Democrat most of the time.

 

To establish "most of the time".....wouldn't you need more data than one vote he made?

 

I mean, that's just the easiest hole I can poke in your argument, there are plenty of others.