Squirrel

Lewis isn't on the 40-man yet, but he will need to be added.

Yeah ... it's really hard to know where the thinking is. Garlick and Rooker both have options, so I'd say Refsnyder is the odd man out of those three. I'm not sure who provides the most value, maybe none of them, but I can't see them keeping all of them. Simmons is an obvious gone, but ... and I hope not ... but they could re-sign him? But if they do, (but oh man, I hope they don't) likely won't happen immediately, so they can use his roster spot up front and make room again for him later. They will have to find roster spots for Kirilloff and Garlick (if they keep him) at the end of the season. That is accomplished with Maggi and Simmons gone. I think they keep people on until they have to remove them. Pitchers will be an interesting discussion. I split this up between position players and pitchers because I just thought it would be too long a list to go through at once, but maybe I should add them in and make this one discussion? And then you start thinking about the rule 5 adds ... so many related parts.

Oooou ... another moment ... when the Twins beat the Tigers to become the AL Champs in 1987 ... how many went down to the dome for an impromptu rally waiting for the arrival of the team to come home from Detroit? Wow ... so awesome!!!!!

We’ve had several threads/articles lately about next season … what you think the 2022 lineup will be, who do we want to sign, what are our positions of most need, will certain players have a place on the team next year. All very good discussions. And not too far in the future, we’ll be having discussions on which prospects should be added to the roster. But before we get to all of those, there are larger looming discussions and decisions regarding the 40-man roster … who stays, who goes. When I thought about doing this thread, I ran into a lot of difficulty exactly how to do this. It seemed easy enough initially … who should the Twins jettison? Well, after thinking about it, a lot, hemming and hawing, trying to learn more about the status of individual players (something I am not well-versed in, I fully admit), and after discussing with others what I wanted to discuss, (thank you @ashbury, @Otto von Ballpark and @Brock Beauchamp), I realized the question might not be ‘who do we jettison’, but rather’ Who should we keep?’ I found the question to be, well, daunting. It’s really a big puzzle when it comes down to it. Time is a precious commodity. You want to maximize the time you have of your best prospects/players, so you don’t want to add them before they are ready, so you can capitalize on their best years; and don’t want to jettison a struggling player too soon, only to see them finally figure it out elsewhere. We’ve been down that road, too. Once a player is added, removing them certainly means losing them, if they have any kind of potential, great or small. You want to make sure you’ve really done your due diligence to determine the value you have. So, this 40-man thing is one to be cautious with. In a recent conversation I had with Brock, he said this: “I think of it this way: about 35 spots of the 40-man are locked down with good prospects or MLB veterans. An org might play fast and loose with those final 3-4 spots but they spend A LOT of effort avoiding tampering with that 35 unless they have confidence in what they’re doing.” So … part one of this discussion … position players on the Twins’ 40-man roster … who should the Twins keep? We won’t see these decisions come to fruition all at once. It will happen gradually. I’m sure the Twins have made some decisions already, but others will ‘hang out’ until which time the Twins either feel they have a better replacement, decide to make trades, need the space for prospect additions, or feel they’ve just reached the ‘end of the road’ with them. So … of the listed players, who would you keep? Discuss any reasoning below. STATUS PLAYER Options FA FA if outrighted? 28-man Luis Arraez 2 in 2026 (arb eligible 2023) YES 28-man Byron Buxton n/a FA in 2023 YES 28-man Jorge Polanco 0 signed through 2023, club options for 2024 and 2025 YES 28-man Josh Donaldson n/a signed through 2023, club option for 2024 YES 28-man Max Kepler n/a signed through 2023, club options for 2024 YES 28-man Mitch Garver 2 FA in 2024 YES 28-man Miguel Sanó n/a signed through 2022, club option for 2023 YES 28-man Nick Gordon 0 YES 28-man Andrelton Simmons n/a At end of season 28-man Ryan Jeffers 2 28-man Willians Astudillo 1 YES 28-man Jake Cave 1 FA in 2025, arb eligible 2022 YES 28-man Brent Rooker 2 60IL Kyle Garlick 1 YES 60IL Alex Kirilloff 2 10IL Rob Refsnyder 0 YES 40-man Ben Rortvedt 2 40-man Drew Maggi 3 YES 40-man Trevor Larnach 2 40-man Gilberto Celestino 1 YES Many thanks to Otto who did this chart for me, and I filled in some of the contract info, and to Brock and Ash for bearing with my endless questions.

I was never one of those 'starry-eyed' Mauer fans, I wasn't one of his detractors, either. He is and was a special talent, though. So one of my moments will always be in his last game when he came out in his catcher gear, to end his career where it started, as a catcher. I think it was the only time I was ever moved to tears over a game moment. That I recall, anyway.

Top of the first I left to go make some dinner for myself ... come back and the Twins are up 3-0 ... I always miss the good stuff ... ?

I think you are doing quite a bit of 'hind sighting' in this statement. At the start of the season, none of those positions were question marks, per se. Yes, with both Buxton and Donaldson, there were injury concerns, but none of those positions were question marks. Maybe left field was a question mark of who, internally, was going to slot in there, but it wasn't such a question mark that we needed to sign anyone long term for that position. And, when the season started, they had a lot of outfield depth. The problem were injuries, not only to the starting players, but also to our depth. I think the FO can be criticized for this season, mostly with pitching, but not with the positions above. Unless you didn't like the Donaldson signing, I think you are hind sighting quite a bit of this.

Where do you think they will push him to next year in terms of innings?

I'm not sure where he should top out in 2022. It's been a unique situation, with 2020 a missed year for so many, but I think he could (should?) be pushed. Depending on his off-season regimen, I would start him similarly in the beginning of the season and hopefully get him to go longer into games by the end. I think 150 is definitely doable, and hopefully higher. Too many questions that I don't have the expertise to answer. That lost year has certainly messed with development all the way around, but I think by next season, it should be 'back to normal' for the most part and with big steps forward

What happened before the game started was the highlight. The game itself? Well ... can't win them all.

Well, Mauer's in the booth with him ... he could correct him

That Simmons hit looked like something Rosario would do ... high ball out of the zone and reach up and take a swat

He is on a family bereavement leave ...

Wow ... what a catch!

Peter and the Wolf? There was grunting in that?

How'd you know it was my announcement? I don't do them every game, just some of them

Awesome and welcome! We have had a parent or two here over the years. Feel free to jump in where you want to ask questions or to add any ‘inside info’ you might have ?

I hope he continues his climb; sounds promising

Fine. We will just has to agree to disagree at this point. I'm just giving an opinion, not fighting to win a debate. This isn't an all or nothing that I'm stating here, and I've acknowledged the good, but I still don't think of Berrios as an ace. You do. And ne'er the two should meet.

While I agree in some part (maybe not the pop psychology part), that he has occasional 'lapses.' I think all pitchers do, but you are right, this is a must win situation for the Jay's and Berrios needs to come through. But so does the offense. Ober has the makings of a solid, back of the rotation guy, maybe mid-rotation guy, in his rookie year ... if it's must win, shouldn't the Jay's hitters also be making an impact? The loss isn't completely on Berrios, but yes, part of the reason I think of Berrios as a very good, solid pitcher, but not an ace.

@Brock Beauchamp just got this ad ... was at the bottom of a forum thread page ... a sound ad ... and no way to click it off ... grrr ... went away when I clicked 'go to topic listing'. Photo doesn't show it but was for an Amazon visa card, I think.

Just goes to show that prospects aren't finished when they come up, that there is still more to learn at the highest level of baseball and maybe we need to temper our expectations and patience just a little. Rookies need to gain experience, plain and simple. I've actually been very pleasantly surprised with Gordon and think he has a place on this team next year. I want to see what he does with this year's experience under his belt. He has made a good case for himself.

That was a criticism of Buxton, too, when he first came up ... bad jumps, bad paths to the ball, etc ... but his speed made up for it.

I think I've been pretty clear that I don't think Berrios is an ace pitcher and why, which is the subject of this thread. I think I've also been pretty clear that I think Berrios is a very solid good pitcher, one that any/all teams would love to have on their roster. And while a huge loss for us, I think we made a very good trade and I think it was the right trade to make given the circumstances. That's the sucky end of this business, saying goodbye to a beloved player, but that's the business, and all professionals know it. But I think the 'ace' moniker gets thrown about pretty inconsistently and in service to an agenda for some. My comment was more to that than anything else. To call a pitcher the 'team's ace' is nothing more than creating a false value, imo, because saying he's the best pitcher on a team whose pitching has really sucked this year says very little to me.

Dunno. Can you? Probably depends on where 85 pitches gets you, but mostly I'm not a believer in how 'ace' is thrown around to define pitchers because it's so subjective and not specific. Which is more my point ... it's become a useless term, but for people referring to Berrios as the team's ace, well, there you go. He's not an ace, imo, and I've stated that before. And I've also stated that Berrios is a very good solid pitcher and one any team would love to have. But the term ace? meh.