chpettit19

This is an intriguing idea. I may actually be on board with that even without Cease. I think Basallo has the chance to be the best all-around catching talent in baseball in a couple years. Rocket arm with average receiving and a bat good enough to DH in his off days is a heck of a weapon. It's also why Baltimore is unlikely to trade him. But that's a trade that looks pretty fair from both sides.

Especially if I hit left-handed. As @DocBauer points out, the Twins have 2 lefties on their roster. With maybe a 3rd possible. Or if it gets crazy and both Julien and Rodriguez are on the roster it may reach a whopping 4! And we're still calling them "redundant." What are we doing here?! There's 2 corner outfield spots and a DH spot. 2 lefties are not redundant for 2 positions, let alone 3! The Twins have melted people's brains with this to where we can't even count apparently. Somebody better email the Orioles and let them know Henderson and Holliday are redundant as middle infielders who hit left-handed. And Cowser, Kjerstad, and Mullins are redundant as outfielders who hit left-handed. Luckily for them Rutschman hits from both sides of the plate so he won't be redundant with Basallo when he gets called up. But Basallo possibly playing a bunch of 1B makes him redundant with O'Hearn. They should really look to move at least 4 of those guys because we all know you can't carry 7 lefties on an MLB roster without destroying your offense. Did you see how Henderson hit against lefties in his first 200ish PAs against them?! He can't hit lefties. No way. Ignore his .829 OPS against them in his 2nd 200 PAs against them. Platoon him! Wallner's 108 PAs against them definitely means he's toast. Larnach's 187? Book is written! He's got no chance. Don't even give these young guys a chance to learn. It's maddening.

I'm tired, boss.

Mountcastle is an interesting option. But I agree with everyone else, Ober is an outrageous cost for him. For a reasonable price, I'd take Mountcastle.

They could afford it. You know exactly what I mean. There's a whole lot of players that want to remain on Team X and don't. That's a nonsense argument. Correa wanted to remain an Astro. How'd that turn out? Bregman also wants to remain an Astro and that's very much up in the air. If the Twins offered him a 6 year, $180 million deal he'd be a Twin. They wouldn't do that, but this idea that he was never going anywhere else is nonsense. Players leave the teams they want to be on all the time. Like it's the main part of the offseason.

No, I don't. And I literally explained why in the section you cut out. Maybe just read that part and save us both this wasted time. Rodriguez, Kiersey, Helman, Eeles, McCusker, Keaschall, Lee, Gasper, Julien, Prato, Rosario. Off the top of my head. And, no, they're not all "kids." And, yes, the vast majority of them will fail and be worse than Bader. But I'm confident that the combination of them can produce a league average player for the league minimum and there's a chance it produces somebody above league average for the minimum that then sets the team up for success in the future. And, yes, some of those guys are infielders, but all the roster spots are connected. Especially on this team. It's why people like Castro so much. Because he can change where the opening on your roster is.

Then you're not looking closely enough.

That isn't all he effects at all. I actually don't think he effects Martin in any way. Martin is still on the MLB roster from my estimation. And that means he's still likely a short side platoon bat who will get a little playing time at 2B as well. If the idea is that Bader is a platoon for a corner OFer because he doesn't move Larnach to most time DH then Martin remains the most obvious other platoon bat for the 2 lefties we know will be on the roster. Yes, some of us focus on the kids because of the word "yet." Yet is the key. Yet keeps pushing things back because of the average at best vet. And maybe it isn't "yet." Maybe the kids are good now. You don't get to find out because the average at best vet is taking the PAs. At the end of the day it's a matter of taste on team building. Some people like the floor building vets and some of us prefer the possible ceiling raising kids. And of course, the math isn't that simple, but it gives an idea. The Twins could never afford Correa until they could. Is Bregman going to settle for a 1-year deal, too? This is happening every year now. Big time players don't get the big deal they want and take essentially 1-year deals. The Twins could've paid Alonso 30 mil this year. They could pay Bregman 30 mil. Shoot, apparently, they could've paid them 35. The math isn't that simple, but it's also not just blindly "those guys are never coming here." I'd prefer to be in the race for one of those guys and still be able to snag these average at best vets late in the offseason like we do. Instead we don't join any races and then sign the average at best vets late anyways. Outside of the point proving Correa deal, obviously.

Just like Correa was NEVER signing with the Twins. I'm not asking for me to get a hard payroll number. What an incredibly weird argument. But Falvey should probably have a pretty good idea about what he's allowed to spend during the offseason, shouldn't he? That's what I'm talking about. Like everybody else. We're judging the front office on the information we have available. That information has changed. Once information changes it's pretty logical to change your assessment of what's taken place. My questions are about whether or not Falvey knew he had up to 150 mil to spend from the beginning of the offseason or if it's a new development. Nobody is demanding that we know their budget. That's nonsense. Again, you're arguing against things I'm not saying.

Very likely, yes.

That's possible.

The Twins have no more than 3 lefties on their roster right now mostly like, right? Larnach, Wallner, and maybe Julien? Why would we think they're going to start against LH pitching? I wish they'd play them every day and see if they can be everyday players, but why would we expect that to be the actual situation? Do you really think Rocco is going to play them against lefties over any right-handed option? I don't think that's likely.

Castro got his roster spot because of an injury to a veteran and another young player. They didn't move a veteran out of the way for him. He's not that counterexample. Jorge Polanco and Alex Kirilloff being hurt got him a roster spot. He would've been sent to the minors no matter what his spring looked like if either one of those guys were healthy. Or Buxton could play CF if you really want to get into it. If Keaschall or Rodriguez or Keirsey or Helman or any of those guys "look really good in the spring training game" you watch this year is that going to be them "earning it?" Are they going to move Bader aside for them? Lee looked good in spring training last year but that wasn't "earning it." Why was Castro looking good in spring "earning it?" Your definition of "earning it" for him is simply that he was on the roster. He "earned it" by getting a chance. An extended chance at that. Because his OPS through his first 30 games (midway through May) was a whopping .607. He got to stay on the roster because they didn't have any vets to replace him which allowed him to work through his struggles and improve. Which is literally what we're asking for with the other guys instead of rostering the Margot, Farmer, Gallo, Bader types. He was a non-prospect nobody expected anything out of who got a chance because the Twins didn't have a choice and he improved and ended up being a useful piece. Just like Joey Gallo wasn't blocking anyone? And Margot wasn't blocking anyone? Come on. This is provably false by the way they run their team. Margot blocked Martin who outperformed him in every offensive category. Gallo blocked Wallner who more than earned it in AAA. Shoot, Andrelton Simmons blocked Jose Miranda in 2021 because they wouldn't just cut his useless self and move Polanco or Gordon to SS in a lost season and let Miranda get his feet wet while he put up a .973 OPS in the upper minors over 127 games and Donaldson spent most of the 2nd half DHing. But Jake Cave, Willians Astudillo, Kyle Garlick, and Rob freaking Refsnyder sure got some run that year. Really paid off big in 2022, huh? .973 wasn't "earning it" either? Yes, there are endless examples on both sides of the AA performance argument. You're the one stating as fact that somebody isn't ready based on AA OPS numbers. I'm arguing that you don't know. What we are much closer to knowing is that Harrison Bader is going to be average at best. And if they had a veteran like Bader they could've used in 2023 they would've used him over Castro. Especially after those first 30 games where he wasn't good. But they didn't have the option so the non-prospect who was 26 years old got the chance by default and now you call him "a very good contributor."

So, wouldn't the major league level be the place for him to be so you can get answers to the question marks about his approach playing at the major league level?

The minor leaguers are tied to Bader. It's an appropriate conversation for this thread. Every signing has ripple effects and we're discussing the direct ripple effects of this signing. Just like the Hayes report is an extension of the Bader signing topic. All worthwhile discussions appropriate for this thread. Everyone can choose which of those extensions on the direct Bader topic they wish to be involved in. The more money they have available to spend the more I want to know when they knew they had this money and what that means. Was it always a 145-150 budget? Are they feeling like they're closer to an ownership deal so that's changing things? The more money they have available the less I like these types of signings because it means they could have pretty easily cleared enough to sign Alonso to the type of deal he got or maybe get Bregman for similar. And I'd rather have one of them plus young guys than all these average at best guys who don't raise the ceiling of this team.

Jackson Chourio and Jackson Merrill both had lower OPS numbers in AA and skipped (or essentially skipped in Chourio's case) AAA and went straight to the majors. Is 1.100 enough to show Emma is ready? If you don't like those 2 comps, how about Michael Harris II who had an .878 OPS in 43 AA games before jumping straight to the majors? Slightly better than Keaschall, but nothing crazy. He'd played 197 total minor league games before debuting. Emma has played 230. Keaschall is at 133 already.

Considering their track record of "value free agent signings" that isn't that large of an endorsement. And he has been very useful compared to his cost. I don't deny that. But his cost has gone up. Castro is actually an example of what we're talking about. He wasn't viewed as a 2 WAR player when they picked him up on a non-40-man roster contract. He signed a minor league deal and wasn't expected to play for the Twins. The boards around here weren't impressed at all. Were you claiming then that he'd be a 2 WAR player so they should give him a shot or were you saying the same thing you're saying now and advocating for a Harrison Bader or Kyle Farmer or Manuel Margot or Joey Gallo to take his place because "the minors are not full of 2 WAR players?" He was one of the young players we're talking about giving a shot to because they may be at least as good as the bad to average vets they keep bringing in. He's literally the example for letting the young guys give it a go. I'd trade Lee today. Would've traded him last year. I've long been one of the lower posters on Lee. And Larnach and Miranda have both put up OPS+ numbers over 110. Miranda on multiple occasions. Castro has gone 105 and 102. That's a bad comparison since those 2 literally fit what I said about Castro not hitting well enough.

He's a league average hitter who doesn't field all that well at any position. He had been "very cheap," but now he's making over 6 million. He's not useless. Just like Bader, Paddack, and Vazquez aren't useless. But their contributions can be filled by significantly cheaper assets. Or they should be able to be filled by significantly cheaper assets. Willi's contributions are really that they feel comfortable moving him all around the field. Which allows them to do the things some of us dislike in platooning like mad and trying to hit the perfect matchup decisions every night. You say he can't play CF which is why they need Bader. I don't think anyone wants him at SS for much run at all. I appreciate his utility, but it's only as valuable to the Twins as it is because of their roster management strategies. Being a league average bat that can't defend the premium positions is something, but nothing special. When you have to spend another 6 million on a guy to cover for your super utility guy because he can't actually field multiple of the positions you want him to well then he's not all that super, in my opinion. If he hit to a 110+ OPS+ and played questionable defense all over that'd be one thing. But he doesn't. His bat and glove are both easily replaceable.

I'm not. But I view the team differently than you. I don't view Bader as a "significant improvement" like you've said he is. I see him as, at best, a marginal improvement. Just like Paddack, Vazquez, and Castro are marginal improvements on what cheaper players can do. The marginal improvement strategy for multiple guys on the roster has proven to be ineffective so I want it stopped. But your argument has been that he's more than a marginal improvement but you now say you still don't think they're a good team. And at that point I question why you defend this move. What does the team get out of it if they're still bad? Why should anyone be excited for going from 75 to 76 wins? Or even from 75 to 78 wins? What use is that?

If he doesn't make a bad team good, who cares? That's literally our argument for not signing him. If the team is going to still be bad, why would you want them wasting PAs on a guy who won't help them be good now or in the future? Martin, Keirsey, Helman, Rodriguez, Eeles, McCusker, etc. all may be worse than Bader. Maybe way, way worse. But they at least have a chance of being better. If the team is going to be bad anyways why wouldn't you want them to give the young guys a chance to learn and improve and maybe be better? Them still being a bad team is all the more reason not to tie yourself to a bad veteran player. Use that time to develop young players. We haven't forgotten that defense is a part of baseball. We weight it differently. That's the same weak argument people give to defend every glove only guy. We judge his all around game to not be meaningfully better than the all around game of the other options.

Yes. Where those statements belong. Thanks for randomly pointing that out. Have you read the whole thread? Seen their arguments and ours? I stand by my statement 100%. It wasn't even the first time in this thread I pointed out they were arguing against points people weren't making. And he is denying that this regime doesn't cut players. 2 things can be true at once. Especially when covering multiple interactions. Glad you got a giggle out of it, though.

Merrill had never played CF as a professional. Not 1 single inning. He didn't make the roster because he "was a defensive stud." He made it for his bat and they hoped he could play CF.

Rocco doesn't cut players. We've all admitted that this is about Falvey and Rocco. It's a strategy thing we don't like. They are handcuffed to Bader because they'll choose to be. That is our problem. Nobody is denying that. You're the one denying the realities of how this regime works to defend Harrison freaking Bader as some sort of savior. We're advocating for the Twins to change their strategy. You can say that as they should fire Falvey and Rocco or however you want. But that's our argument. You're the one arguing against other things than what we're saying.

You're right. Way better to tie themselves to a guy they know will be below average instead. Again, your assessment of this team all offseason has been that they're a below .500 team. But suddenly Harrison Bader is saving the day? Now we're on the right track? This move doesn't improve their chances of making the playoffs or advancing once they get there. You're acting like Bader is some kind of star but you don't even want him starting. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Those guys combined is $30.25 million. Alonso is 27 AAV, but sounds like it may be 30 this year and 24 next. So I guess they have to drop Tonkin and Topa types as well to scratch together the extra couple mil for Diaz. I'm sure you'd be heartbroken over that. They could drop those salaries if they wanted to. It wouldn't be that hard at all. Castro's salary literally was as easy as wishing it away since they could've just non-tendered him. But they could get a prospect back for him and eat nothing on his deal easy. They could get a nothing prospect back for Paddack just to dump his deal. And they could attach a mid-level prospect to Vazquez to clear him. And your first argument was that we're "acting like 6.25 million will send the Pohlads to the poor house." So, obviously you believe they could've just spent the extra 3.5 for Diaz on top of Alonso. But the point remains that collecting multiple of these kinds of vets that don't move the needle can instead be turned into a star.