chpettit19

That's a great mischaracterization of my stance. And you literally just suggested they were confused on what to do and needed to pull off the highway to recalculate the GPS. My stance is that it's an unforced demotion of one of the best players they currently have on the roster. I've provided numerous guesses on how they could've come to the decision. I've rebutted reasons given by both posters and team officials/players. Doesn't mean I'm right. But characterizing my stance as "it's all about some misfired plan or expectation and now they are confused" is ignoring a lot and actually a complaint about an argument you literally made 45 minutes ago. But don't characterize my stance that way as it's drastically reducing the ideas I've presented.

You disprove your own point in your first paragraph. You start by saying he's going to have struggles and shouldn't be christened to the majors from here on out. I agree with both of those things. But then you point out the obvious counter in that he's going to need to go through those struggles eventually. Sending him down while he's doing well because at some point it's almost guaranteed that he has struggles is just delaying those struggles. Sending him down doesn't change that, it just makes it more likely that he goes through those challenges at a time when the team isn't playing the As, Royals, and Tigers and they're actually counting on him to have made adjustments. Lewis doesn't need to be in AAA to learn 3B. He's played it plenty throughout his life. Including 109 professional innings. There's no reason to send him to AAA to learn 3B. LF you could sell me on. I guess we'll see where they play him in AAA. But the rest of that second paragraph is just an emphasis on 1 of my 3 complaints: being surprised he was good. If it's "whoa" in anyway and they need to send him down to recalculate it means they weren't prepared for him to be ready and better than Urshela and Miranda (a guy with 1 good MLB season, and a guy with 1 good MiLB season). That's a failure. If they signed Correa knowing they had Lewis and are now surprised and confused on what to do because Correa may stay and their best prospect, who plays the same position, is good it's a failure, not an acceptable excuse. How do you not expect, and thus have a plan for, your top prospect to be good? I agree with the premise of your 3rd paragraph. It's not the end of the world. But that doesn't mean it makes sense or was necessary or that the FO doesn't deserve all the heat they're getting (including from their own players if you believe the Dan Hayes article on The Athletic). But I am thinking about June, July, August, September, and October or November when I make my complaints. He's going to struggle at some point in the majors (as we both agree on). I'd prefer that happens in May or June rather than September or October. He's going to have to make adjustments. Let's let him make them early instead of late when he's being counted on during a pennant race late in the year. And for the record this is my objective stance. I have run all the options through my head. I've read pretty much every post on here about the possibilities and read all the Twins quotes from the FO to Rocco to the players. I have yet to see one that isn't easily refuted (outside of maybe them wanting him to get some time in LF). Playing 3B isn't acceptable as he can already do it. Playing SS isn't either as he's already shown he can play it after 2 years off. "The future" isn't as he needs to go through the adjustment period so all you're doing is delaying it. Urshela standing in his way isn't as he's a potential star and Urshela is a utility IFer. It's not the end of the world, but that doesn't make it a good decision through a "neutral stance" thought process.

I expected it, and admit it's quite possible that's why I'm so cranky about the decision to send him back down. I spent all offseason saying I expected him to do what Baddoo did last year and come out of the gates on fire because he's just that naturally gifted. He's an incredibly hard worker and knew what his was holding him back. Having all of 2020 to spend on reworking his swing without having to worry about what numbers he was putting up or getting promoted or whatever else was a blessing to him. I think game reps defensively are highly overrated. It's important to build your instincts and all that, but in terms of straight up being able to make the plays that's all worked on in practice. So, again, 2020 spent doing nothing but working on his glove everyday without worrying about errors and fielding percentage was a blessing to him. Last year was a real bummer for him. But he was training and playing games during the offseason unlike many of the major leaguers were so he was more ready than them because of his rehab process. I fully expected this out of him and I think it's a failing that the FO seemed to be so surprised (or are just being overly cautious/refusing to waiver from "the plan") by his success. They know what he was looking like in 2020 and what he was looking like during his rehab process and should've been ready for this. This feels like 1 of 3 things happened/are happening: 1. They weren't prepared for him to be this good this early. In which case they did a terrible job self-scouting their own player. 2. They're being overly cautious/looking too much to the future at the cost of the present by putting so much emphasis on him getting AAA reps at SS. In my opinion this is also inexcusable as there are plenty of examples of guys moving positions on the fly in the bigs and doing well. Trea Turner being the perfect example. Kris Bryant being another one (just wasn't a SS). It was out of necessity due to injuries for Arraez and Gordon to do it, but they were both successful with it. Teams do it all the time. 3. They're refusing to alter the almighty "plan." This is kind of a combo of 1 and 2. Also find it to be an awful excuse and a major flaw for the FO if it's what's happening. I think they've shown a tendency to hold onto plans too long/be overly cautious with things, and I think it's their biggest flaw. From the outside it looks like they get blinders on and are just going to keep charging in the direction they picked until they get knocked off course and have no choice but to adjust. I think they've been outstanding at setting up the development systems and the general baseball ops practices for a winning organization. I think they need a more aggressive voice in the room to counterbalance what appears to be a large number of "play it safe" voices. Lewis going down isn't the end of the world, and neither is resting Buxton or Correa, but there needs to be some aggressiveness at some point. At least that's how I see if from the outside.

What is debatable about it not being an either or situation? It is entirely possible to look to the future and the present. It's literally the FO's job. The Nats sat Strasburg his rookie year with a look towards the future and not wanting to hurt his arm. He's been hurt for nearly his entire career. They also played Turner in CF (a position he'd never played before that year) when he first came up to get his bat in the lineup while he fine tuned his glove at SS. He's now the SS for the best team in baseball after a stint at 2B as well. The idea that the only way to prepare for the future is to send Lewis down is false. Sending him down also doesn't ensure his future. I agree with the general idea that fans don't have nearly as much knowledge or info as the FOs we complain about, but don't mistake that for meaning they're always right or that there aren't fans out there with a whole lot of info.

Let's break this argument down (and I'm not trying to be rude, just trying to find a way to respond coherently) 1. He missed 2 years. 2. He's the shortstop of the future so needs to be ready. 3. Can't be ready to take over for Correa unless he's playing SS "nearly EVERY day." I agree with 2. But doesn't his current performance render points 1 and 3 moot? What about his performance suggests he isn't ready to be the shortstop of the present? If Correa wasn't here he'd be the starting SS now and he was doing awfully well at that job. How does keeping him in the majors so he can go through the necessary adjustments over the course of the year as ML pitchers adjust to him hurt his future? I'd argue sending him down delays his ability to be ready to take over for Correa. He can field the position. He's shown it. He'll continue to work on it no matter where he is even if he isn't starting at SS everyday. The struggle rookies face is that eventually the league adjusts to you and pitch you different. That's what he needs to work on to be prepared to take over for Correa. All sending him down does is delay that adjustment opportunity.

The thing with the Lewis situation though is that it's not a focus on the present OR future situation. You can be focusing on both the present AND the future. I don't believe keeping him in the majors playing 3B while training everyday with the best fielding SS in baseball is hindering his future at all. He's played 109 professional innings at 3B already. That's not a ton, but let's not act like he's never played there. He played there most of his HS career as well. So he could help the present team by playing 3B and providing what is currently one of the best bats they have going, and he can learn the habits of Correa and train with him everyday. It's not a this or that situation. He can help the present and still be set to take over SS in the future.

Except they've openly stated that the plan isn't to have him play SS everyday, it's to move him around the field so he's comfortable playing other positions when he's needed again. He played a more than serviceable SS in his short stint and was doing quite well at it in St Paul. Plus they watched him take an insane amount of grounders during the 2020 season and have been watching him in Florida for months as he's rehabbed. If they aren't sure if he can play SS or not by now they have their answer and it's that he can't play SS.

But that would go against the idea of not having guys learn a new position on the fly in the bigs since Larnach has never played 1B in a professional game. I'm not arguing with you or anything. I'm mostly just trying to figure out a way to make this move make sense.

Royce has played 3B many times in his life. He played 3B in HS until his senior year. He played it in the AFL. He's played 109 professional innings at 3B. If the plan is to call him back up anytime soon an extra 27 innings or whatever he gets at AAA isn't going to be the difference maker. Which to me makes me think they don't plan to see him up again anytime soon. And that's my biggest problem with this. Him going down to learn LF is the only thing that makes sense to me since he only has 54 OF innings and those were all in CF (although he looked great there). So the plan seems to be putting him in AAA until somebody else gets hurt. That's not a winning plan to me. If Urshela goes down today do they move Miranda back across and let him continue to get sliced and diced by major league arms? If so I'd tip my cap to their dedication, but if the move would be to put Lewis over there he should be there today.

The answer to his playing time is that he takes over for the starter (like Urshela) who then moves to the bench. Lewis jumps to the top of the depth chart and everyone else moves down a spot, including someone to AAA.

There's no trades or DFA type moves that need to be made. Miranda needs to go down. Don't know anybody who would argue that. Garlick is a bad defender who only hits against lefties and has an option left. Those are 2 reasonable moves that could be made while putting Lewis at 3B to start over Urshela who has a great glove, but about a .600 OPS. There's no need to reduce any depth to keep Lewis in the majors.

Do you think that's the plan (comes back when they have to send out a pitcher at the end of the month) or do you expect an injury or something to open a spot?

The trade point was made as a proposition for clearing space for Lewis, which was on topic for this thread. We shouldn't have taken it any further than that here. Let's get back on point and that's Lewis being optioned back to AAA.

Winder is an MLB pitcher, Arraez is an MLB hitter, and Miranda is a top prospect. That's far more value than the Twins got for Berrios.

He played CF in the AFL and looked like he'd been doing it his whole life. You should go watch the highlights. They're fun. Nick Gordon figured the outfield out on the fly at the ML level and, no offense to Nick, Lewis is the better player so I'm not sure why he'd struggle greatly with that. He'd be a better LFer right now than Kyle Garlick or Brent Rooker or Trevor Larnach have been for the Twins.

If it takes another injury or a trade to get him back up if he's still mashing in AAA I'm going to turn into one of the people who start calling for heads, and I really don't like being that kind of person for the exact reason you mention (they have more info, and frankly, are smarter than me). But if he continues to hit in AAA there is no reason not to have him replace Urshela or anyone else not hitting for the Twins. Play your best players. Especially since they're past the service time cutoff anyways. I just don't get any strategy now that isn't playing your best players as often as they can play.

We certainly don't know. And I generally give them the benefit of the doubt cuz they have so much more info and know the bigger picture, but I don't follow the logic of sending down one of you top 4 players. For any reason. I just think you find a place to get your best players on the field.

I hope they aren't playing Urshela simply because they just traded for him a month and a half ago. If he isn't the better player (and it's hard to argue he is at this moment) then he shouldn't just automatically get to start because he was a recent acquisition. I'd bet his glove plays well at 1B, too. That'd give the Twins 4 guys who have started games at SS in the majors in their infield. That doesn't sound too bad. I hope anyone suggesting the FO didn't think things through are exaggerating their stance. But it's fair to question what the front office is weighing. I think you may be correct and part of why they're playing Urshela is because they traded for him thinking he could be the everyday 3B. I also think it's fair to question how cautious they're being with Lewis playing other positions. I don't really get what alternate reason they have for sending him down since he's past any service time concerns (unless they don't plan to bring him back basically at all this year and then they should be fired). I spent all offseason predicting Lewis would thrive from basically the jump. I can't imagine the FO knew how he was looking after 2020 and his rehab leading into ST and had no idea he was basically ready for the bigs, but maybe they were surprised by his immediate success. To me this all feels like they had a plan for how the season would go, then for what they'd do if Correa got hurt, and they simply aren't willing to adjust on the fly. Their plan was for Lewis to be in AAA basically the whole year other than to fill in for any Correa IL stints. They planned for Urshela to be the everyday 3B. They planned and planned and now I think we're seeing an example of their inability to adjust quickly. I think it's a weakness of this FO/brain trust (I think Rocco is highly involved as well). They hold onto their plans too long (Colome closing, Happ and Shoemaker starting for examples). I think that's what we're seeing and I don't think "this was the plan" is a good enough reason to send down one of their current best players.

They don't even need to DFA Garlick as he still has an option left. They can simply send him down.

Further prepare him for a return? What are they preparing for him to do on his return? Hit .408 instead of .308? Royce Lewis is a better baseball than Urshela, Gordon, Celestino, and Arraez today. Arguing that he shouldn't start over any of those players today is crazy to me. Arraez only plays against righties and his best defensive position without a doubt is DH. I don't care if Celestino and Gordon are the backup OFers because Lewis shouldn't be a backup. Maybe he falls apart like Larnach did last year and then this is a different discussion. But today he is the 4th best player the Twins have. And you're arguing it's hard to get him ABs over their 12th-14th best players and Arraez. Blows my mind. Play your best players. Not all that complicated to me.

Did you see Lewis play OF in the AFL? He is a better OFer than Garlick is right now.

The short end of a platoon over an everyday player is the argument you're making right now. Sorry, not sold.

I don't think it's a huge deal in the grand scheme. I think it sends a bad message, though. Not necessarily to players, but just in general. To me it feels like they had a plan and that's all there is to it. He was going to come up until Correa got back and he was going back. Didn't matter if he hit 1.000. As for playing everyday I don't buy that either. He could, and should, play everyday for the Twins. Buxton, Correa, Polanco, Lewis is how I'd rank the top 4 players in the Twins org right now. You play Lewis over Urshela. DH him over Sanchez or Jeffers. Play him over Gordon. Play him over Miranda. Play him over Garlick. There are everyday ABs available in the majors so sending him down to play everyday doesn't make sense to me. The offense has been horrible and he's one of the few guys doing well. They're in a stretch of games that they need to rack up wins in. Play your best players and dominate this stretch. If he starts struggling like Miranda adjust then. But right now he gives you a better chance to win. That's all that should matter.

He's not going to get them in AAA either as the plan is to play him all over the field to get him used to being a super utility guy for the rest of the season.

Your question isn't accurate. None of those players need to go anywhere. They can carry a max of 13 pitchers starting May 29th. They will carry 13 pitchers because they always do. Until then they're likely to carry 12 position players and 14 pitchers. 12 position players: (Garlick would be in for Larnach until he comes back) Byron Buxton Carlos Correa Jorge Polanco Luis Arraez Gio Urshela Gary Sanchez Ryan Jeffers Nick Gordon Gilberto Celestino Max Kepler Trevor Larnach Royce Lewis Then once they have to send a pitcher down on the 29th they can call Garlick back up. Or Miranda. Or Kirilloff. Or Godoy. Or Contreras. Or whoever in the world they want. But you can pose your Arraez, Urshela, Sanchez, Gordon, Celestino question all you want. None of them need to go anywhere in order to keep Lewis. As I've now said 3 times Kyle Galick, who is an awful defender and only hits against lefties, is the guy I would send down.