DocBauer

To be clear, like everyone I was enamored with Graterol's arm and his potential. Even as a power RP, he would have been nice to have around. There are 3 possible outcomes with Graterol: 1] He gets stretched out, eventually, and becomes a SP. 2] He fits better and stays in the bullpen. 3] Arm/shoulder injuries continue to flare up and he washes out. I doubt #3 happens. But with EITHER #1 or #2 happening, there is no guarantee how good he will be in either role. I wish him the best. But nobody KNOWS what his future holds, they can only speculate. But if you're going to acquire an addition for the club, you have to trade a talent to receive talent back. Holding on to some need or want to say "I told you so" 2 or 3 years from now still has no influence over improving the club for TODAY and a better shot at winning. Just kinda hate losing both the pick and Raley.

Please, no Take Three!

Comment/question and a thought: 1] Like them or not, I love the booth being so eclectic with past Twins. I often wonder if other teams take advantage and do the same. 2] I really enjoy a 3 man booth and how everyone seems to "come alive" and debate, share and reflect and tell stories. I'd like a little more of that.

Oh my! I would absolutely love Gardenhire in the booth! Someone make this happen when he's done managing!

Oh yeah! How could I forget? Never mind then.

Imagine he and Duran knocking on the door for 2021 along with the development of Thorpe and Dobnak this season?

Can't recall, who does Detroit have at 2B?

Mike has a valid point that ALL deals of this nature are ALWAYS pending medicals for everyone involved. (Deadline deals are different and often rushed through with the trading of reports). On the surface, they have done nothing wrong. But I agree with Carol, and others, that something isn't right when you look closer. His previous TJ is well documented and he is 100% recovered from that. His shoulder issue last season was frustrating, but not reported as anything long term. Kid was back at work and throwing bullets afterward. If Boston truly feels, now, that they overestimated his potential to stretch out to a starter, and they want the deal sweetened some, I could get it. But some sort of "we're not sure about him being a SP so we want another top 10 player IN ADDITION" just smells bad. If they had asked the Dodgers or Twins for an additional prospect in the 11-30 range, or similar, I think most of us could buy that, or at least go along with it. We've seen that in amended deals before. This smells of either incompetence, or regret and posturing to me.

Just a complete farce the way this was handled by Boston. Disappointed the trade didn't go through but happy to have Graterol back. Really unfair to the guy the way this was handled. Glad the Twins didn't give in and add more to the deal. Another top 10 prospect when technically the deal went through LA? Please!

Honestly, quoted you without remembering who you were speaking to directly, so forgive. Berrios declined an extension last year. OK. As of now he has not declined an extension this year. Maybe he will. "Reports" say talks are amicable and the arbitration process was not contentious. Reports also say talks are ongoing, while apart, which is why I'm not going nuts over this hearing. Maybe, maybe Berrios will follow the Bauer concept of betting on yourself yearly. Personally, I find that ridiculous in regard to guaranteed contracts, but whatever. Maybe, maybe Berrios is banking on being productive and healthy long enough to escape the whole arbitration and year to year process because he wants to escape Minnesota for a big market city. I also find that ridiculous because if I were his agent I'd be looking for at least a little security in case of injury, if nothing else. He is young, and part of a winning team, who has a wide open window. He's seen a few teammates lock up deals. He's seen the team be aggressive with recent contracts and additions to make the best team they can. They just made a major trade following a franchise record FA signing. Personally, I think he's smart enough to bet on himself and his future, while not being short-sighted enough to bet on "what if" tomorrow and is holding out for more but willing to sign. What that magic number is I don't know. Are we talking something like 5yrs and $1M per apart or $5M? None of us knows. But if talks are truly ongoing and cordial, then something will get done. And $3K+ will mean nothing. I feel this FO is smart enough to know what they have that they will be realistic but not be "cheap".

I'd really like to post this in about 3 different threads, but will probably just stick with this one. What really irks me is the way this is playing out not just for the organizations,and fans, but for the players themselves. I love baseball! I enjoy the NFL, but not as much as I used to, for various reasons, but that is a different discussion. In MLB, I do not take sides in regard to players vs owners. In the universe that is professional baseball, I side with minor league players, and changes I see as an absolute MUST. We're I an owner, I'd be looking at better treatment, conditions and salary for the lifeblood of my franchise. I would be mkre than willing to thumb my nose at other owners for how I did things because it's not only my franchise, but it's the minors, not MLB. But when it is the BIG STAGE, I don't take sides. I find it oddly curious when others do. We argue about billionaires vs millionaires. We argue about MLB players earning well over 500K per season, with additional perks, and arbitration numbers that go in to the millions. And then we harumph when owners when owners when "only" spend X number of millions. It's really kind of crazy when you step back and look at it all. FWIW, never thought an owner should be an owner if his ego and sense of fun didn't allow him to push the envelope. Otherwise, why own a team in the first place? Ken Rosenthal on MLNetwork commented, as others have, that thjs deal probably still goes through. So my rant may prove worthless. We all know enough to realize there are sometimes questions and delays. But this feels abnormal to me. Maybe it was early reporting? But I'm kind of siding on the retorts from the union on this one. Players are caught in the ceasefire. What if the Twins are dumped out of this? What do they do next? Does Graterol feel welcome comimg back? Is he offered up again in a different deal? The more I look at this, the more frustrated I get at how it has been handled, especially on the Boston end. I feel like some amateurs have been brought in to muck things up.

Thank you! I really like the OP by Matt with K%. I concentrated on league and AL WAR. K% would never tell the whole story, of course, because a ton of BB or hits could deflect the results of SO and swing and miss %. Not sure I have the time to re-post the same 4yr time frame and include K%. I'm intrigued now about looking at team WHIP through the same time frame because that may be even more relevant. But then again, as someone still a little outside the analytics fraternity, perhaps WAR accounts for these already???

In my own mental handicapping, I've had him ranked lower. Admittedly unfair when I look at his age and reflect on his first half of last season. I see a projected 1st round selection with a major school scholarship offer and the best curveball in his draft class and I just expected/wanted more. Reading this report, his growth physically, increased velocity and better K numbers and I become optomostic. Fair or not, I'm waiting/hoping for a real breakout 2020 where we see dominance across the board before I feel comfortable putting him in the top 10.

This. The Twins don't dislike Graterol. He has a very talented arm with a huge potential future in front of him. And he's still very, very young. He might yet be a fine to great SP if nurtured a bit. But the FO brain trust sees him as a power BP arm. And that is still valuable, to the Twins or Boston. But the prospect cost to bring in a quality starting SP is not some low level flier, or a couple of them.

Absolutely. And I would do nothing to hold back his development. But surely he is the kind of player/prospect who will be in the lineup almost daily. Let him play all 3 spots and see where he settles in, I say. For various reasons, some guys are just better or more comfortable in LF vs RF. The foot placement and action at 1B is different than the OF to be sure. I just hope they don't restrict him too soon.

Agree 100%. But when the system hasn't produced, for whatever reason, you have to look and find smart choices. I believe they have done that successfully, which was the point of this OP. Personally, I believe Oddo will be back. And while I love the options brought on board, I am very encouraged by Thorpe and Dobnak. Smeltzer to a lesser degree. The one thing the 30+yr olds do is perform and give time for the youngsters here, and those getting close. When I think about Duran and Balazovic and others rising up over the next couple of seasons I get really excited.

Addition: The one thing about Rooker I don't like us his position use. Milb is for player development. I just can't believe he was never used at 1B last year. Players do tend to gravitate to certain positions and settle in there. But he should be learning both corner spots and 1B for now. Look how much positional flexibility aided the Twins roster last year. In ST last year, the Twins even worked Raley in CF to see what he could do, even on an occasional basis.

Really wish we could combine this thread with the one I wrote a couple days ago. I concentrated on WAR of the past 4 rotation staffs and where they ranked in MLB and the AL each year. Really like the look at K%. Am also wondering now if we should also look closer at WHIP.

Indeed it does. While we have a whole season to play and then measure, hard to not be excited about the potential of this rotation, especially with Maeda. I was never as down on Perez as some and was always a Gibson supporter. But the reality is, except for stretches, those two just didn't have great 2019 seasons. It really looks to me as if we are improved. Even if the needle hasn't swung as far as we might have liked.

Well done! And I agree 100%. The rotation is as good, probably better, and has more depth. The pen also begins the season stronger and deeper than it began last year.

What I have always appreciated, and where I have found faith/hope with Rooker is he has shown the ability to make adjustments at every level. 2018, IIRC, he started rather abysmal at AA and then flipped a switch. He was OK in 2019 at Rochester and then the same thing happened before his injury. He may not mash immediately at the ML level when he gets a chance, but I believe he will make adjustments, as he's always done, and build from there.

After 3 drafts under the new management, I think it's tough to really make any firm conclusions in regard to any real tendancy or preference, much less if any process is broken or not. There is always your BIG BOARD when drafting and the player rankings on it. Baseball is a little unique as it not only breaks down to 2 essential categories, pitcher and player, but also high school and college. The Twins haven't drafted a college pitcher overly high the past 3 drafts? Perhaps they didn't really like the ones available or simply had someone else ranked considerably higher on their board. And really, from a realistic stance, anybody they have drafted so far is really a year away at this point. I'd say we need at least 1 more year, if not 2, to see if there is a real draft strategy preference, and if what they are doing so far is working.

Or, there was no feeling a settlement needed to be worked out at this time as the Twins FO remains confident they will work out an extension at some point here which very likely raises his 2020 salary anyway.

Dyson had been pitching hurt, but pitching effectively. And he never informed anyone. The medical reports given to the Twins, reportedly, indicated no issues to be concerned about. It is also my understanding that in deadline deals, especially last minute ones, there is generally no physical involved, only traded medical reports by the teams.

Considering the early results we have seen from Wes Johnson, I wonder just how good Maeda might be if that FB could be tweaked a little bit.