DocBauer

I missed the 5th inning so I can't really comment, can only read. While by no means dominate, he looked relaxed and in control the first 4 frames. I'd really like to see him get another couple of starts, especially with Mejia out, at least temporarily. What are we playing for at this point if not the future? Same goes for Gonsalves. At this point, do you work in a 6 man rotation? Or do you pull the plug on Santana? With roster expansion a couple weeks away, I'm not sure the answer is as easy as it appears.

I also want the kids to play, FWIW. I'd have Romero and Gonsalves in the rotation today. Mejia too, when off the DL.

NOT disagreeing with you at all! This team has a nucleus that shouldn't be denied. Just to be accurate, Santana would be 36 next season. My whole point was, forget age for a moment, what has Santana been most of his career, and what has he been the last 2 years for the Twins? Easy answer, pretty damn good. Is he done? Yeah, maybe he is. But again, lots of variables, we are not talking about a surgery and recovery for TJ or TOR or a hip or knee. Is he worth, maybe, a flier on a 1 year deal with incentives? Look, Gonsalves should already be up. Romero should be up and getting ready for 2019 as well. Pineda could be a big boost, but could find himself in the pen with May. (Not necessarily a bad thing) Mejia will be with the club as a starter, or in the pen. Thorpe has the potential to be as good or better than Gonsalves or Mejia. But unless we make some BIG FA move or trade move, we have some guys to work with and build around. Audition Santana for the rest of the season or not. Bring him back on a 1 year flier or not. Isn't it worth considering at least?

I never compared him to Maddox. I was speaking in general terms about pitchers in general who started with great stuff and learned to adapt over time, vs, pitchers who flamed out. Another 2 years removed from PED'S? That argument I would debate. Let's say it's true. Let's say allegations are fact. So if he's been clean for 2 years, that would mean all the good he's done the last 2 years were clean. I don't pretend to be an expert, but his surgery this year and so much time off would be a result of giving up PED'S 2 years ago? Again, not an expert, but my limited medical knowledge is that steroids and PED'S wash out of the system in days/weeks/months at longest. So his surgery on his finger, recovery time, etc, can be traced back to presumed PED usage over 2 years ago? Sorry, not going to buy it. I am NOT saying he should be signed on a 1 year. I think what the FO know/believes over the next month or so is what matters. I'm saying jts something to look at and consider. I am in the same camp as you: audition and play Mejia, Gonsalves and Romero. But I think it's worth at least discussing a return for a fully healthy Santana. Is there really anything to lose on a 1 year deal with incentives? 14 years as a ML SP with a winning record and solid numbers doesn't constitute as a great career, I will grant you that. I never said HOF career. Let's try to agree, at least, a very good career then. Some very good years, a few not so much. His first 2 seasons with the Twins, pretty damn good.

Pitching is about ability and pure stuff, at the end of the day. It's also about experience and knowledge. How many dynamic arms, over the years, have we all just seen flame out due to the inability to throw secondary stuff, or learn "how to pitch"? And how many guys have we seen that weren't flamethrowers but had that secondary stuff to succeed? And how many guys have we seen who used knowledge and command to offset a loss of velocity over time? Your answer would undoubtedly depend on age and how long you've been a baseball fan. The ultimate example, IMO, would be Greg Maddux, who began his career with dominate stuff, and finished with dominate stuff based on said control and pitchability. So where does Santana fit in this conversation? He's had a long and great career. He's been mostly steady his whole career. If you look at his numbers, his brief Twins career he has performed about as well as he ever has. I would never diminish a pitcher, or any athlete, undergoing surgery. Something is wrong/hurt, and you are attempting to correct it. But physically, Santana has always been in shape. Mentally, he's always been strong. I've heard rumors and whispers for some time now that age will catch up, and that he has a tendon just waiting to give out. A pitcher doesn't just need a healthy shoulder and elbow...along with hips, knees, etc...but something as simple as a wrist and fingers to control the ball and snap off his stuff. Considering his career, and his season last year...not to dimish surgery...but is it possible the velocity and such are still there waiting for a normal prep time? The Twins have financial flexibility, and prospects to trade, and talent in their nucleus to work with, that they could afford to bring Ervin back. Not at his $15M to be certain, but maybe on a cheaper 1 year deal with incentives. Unless there is something else going on physically, would it be such a bad move? Would you bet against him?

I will not even pretend to be able to break down all the analytics presented. Nor will I pretend to know exactly what adjustment Kepler still has to make. But I will speak about the eye test. He has a tremendous swing. And when he makes solid contact, out or not, he hits absolute laser beams. He also seems to have a good eye and doesn't chase much, and makes decent contact. I've always thought Max was a year behind his fellow age players due to his play in Germany vs a top HS program in the states. And he practically skipped AAA. Question: couldn't some of his numbers reflect hitting RHP so well until this season, and performing so poorly against LHP until this year skew his numbers somewhat? If he can maintain, somewhat at least, his improvement against LHP, and revert back to his previous performance against RHP, I believe we could see a big upward trend in 2019, possibly beginning here the second half of 2018. Talent and potential don't always win out, but he seems so natural with everything he does that I believe he is about ready to "break out".

Stunned but excited! The SO numbers improved and they challenged him unexpectedly with the Rochester promotion. He seemed to respond well, if not exactly dominating. I love taking a look. They are taking a young guy riding a bit of a hot stretch and challenging him again. Gonsalves wasn't on schedule forthis weekend, but needs to be up SOON! And truth is, they do know what Romero offers, so this makes sense. Regardless how it turns out, this is the time to be looking at all these guys, including the pen arms at Rochester. We're playing for next year now, not 2018. I wouldn't mind seeing some form of 6 man rotation from here on out.

It's getting late, but I agree, shouldn't Rooker at least get a couple weeks at AAA to help get ready for 2019? I would love to see an audition in September as has been discussed, but the reality is a year and a half of pro ball and 40 man roster decisions that he doesn't have to be included in. But tell me who is really blocking him for said experience? He should be promoted tomorrow, get a taste, get invited to 2019 ST, and then, probably, begin the season in Rochester. Love we are FINALLY looking at Mejia, who I believe is out of options next year. IMO, he has the potential of a 3-4 SP. But his stuff could also play up as a quality/dominant RP if nothing else. Gonsalves, although I expect some early lumps, is probably an even better prospect. When does he get the opportunity to take those lumps and grow and learn? Thorpe probably has even better stuff and even more potential. And we often forget how young he is, and what he has shown, especially considering what injury and illness did to cost him 2 seasons. How about a few starts in AAA to set his table for 2019?

Been rather quiet as life has been busy as can be. But still read all the threads, and a lot of different opinions. Here is mine. The FO has truly been in charge for less than 2 years at this point. From the day they came on board, they spoke about building/re-building the entire system to one of sustainability. Never once has anyone claimed an answer to super quick turnaround that would lead to a championship. 2016 was an abhorrent mess! Possibly a blip, to some degree. 2017 was solid, quality baseball with a surge. We saw a lot of good things. And through the season, the FO had a tremendous draft, and made a few trades that were somewhat debatable but have been largely applauded for who they acquired. They also made a couple milb trades in the off season that seem to look pretty good. Debate Darvish all you will, and there are solid points on both sides of the aisle. But they did not "dumpster dive" with the aggressive moves they made for 2018. They made sound decisions, and were aggressive on the market like we haven't seen them be for a long time, or ever. Hey...for lots of reasons, it didn't work out. I am NOT an apologist for the FO. I think they blew the Rochester roster this season and have made some questionable in season moves. But a great draft, a seemingly good draft, and most all of their off season moves were smart. Things haven't worked like anyone hoped or wanted this season, but take a step back, and look at the franchise as a whole. MLB Pipeline, FWIW, put the Twins in their recent overview of top 10 milb systems after not ranking them before the season started. This is based on what we have, and what we just acquired. Yes, we have issues and frustrations with what has happened. But if you step back for a second And see a roster with the talent and potential of Sano, Polanco, Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, Berrios, Gibson and maybe even Garver, tell me most people wouldn't be pretty excited to have this group to work with, promote/trade from the system, and augment with some smart signings. Yes, of course, we need to see some of these guys be healthy and take the next step. Duh! But there is so much to work with here! And no, I don't expect the FO to fork out $50+M in FA contracts next off season. Do they really need to? If this nucleus can just re-set a bit, what you need is a few key pieces and promotions/auditions. I don't like every move that has been made. I've seen some that make me want to pull my hair out! But doom and gloom at this point, even with a frustrating season, is a bit silly to me. There is an awful lot to be excited about when you look at what we have, what is near, and what is on the way. That being said, HUGE moves or not, THIS off season will help define the FO on its trajectory.

Very neat read! I have always thought any HOF induction should be heralded by the following: in the time X player performed/participated, was he one of the most dependable and accomplished players at his position. Period. If you followed MLB in the 80's and 90's then you KNOW Morris was one of the best SP around. Especially with the steroid era involved. Actually surprised it took this long. Stupid!

Great post Ted! One of your absolute best! And I agree on most every point. OF course, I want to address a few points. ESCOBAR: Can't believe I'm saying this considering how big of a fan I have been of Dozier, and what he's meant, but I think the loss of Escobar hurts more. He's younger, more consistent, (though not as dynamic), and more versatile. Well loved in the clubhouse and by fans, I would put him at the top of my FA targets. Rumors that the Twins talked extension before the trade tell me he already knows they'd like him back. I hope he feels the same. He could start at 3 spots, or play every day at 3 positions and even DH occasionally. He shouldn't break the bank in the slightest. SANO and BUXTON: I waffle who concerns me the most. And I am by no means giving up on either. And I offer no excuses for either. But doom and gloom because these 24 and 25 yo's are not Trout or Harper need to stop. Sano has questions/issues, but has a tremendous track history before this year. Like Hunter, and others, Buxton was probably promoted and pushed too soon. And who, knows, is he made of glass, or just snake bit early in his career? We have seen what he is capable of. In a lost season...for future and goodness sake...just do what is best for him! Let's say it takes him 2 more years to really figure stuff out And begin to reach his potential. He'd be a 27yo gold glove potential perennial star? That would be bad? KEPLER: All the talent you could hope for. NOT your typical American HS draftee. He was behind his own age group when signed and all but skipped AAA. I refuse to give up on him at this point. His eye is good. His swing is textbook. He hits laser shots. He needs time, experience, adjustments that will come with that and adjustments and hopefully, coaching. With Mauer at 1B, still playing great defense, hitting, getting on base, Polanco and Sano, the infield could be mostly set. We need help in the form of a FA or trade since Gordon isn't ready yet, but should be soon. Cave looks nice, either as a 4th OF or temporary piece. Wade has potential to be the same. Garver is showing real potential. Maybe as a better Harper. Maybe Castro comes back 100%, but I'd still be looking for some kind of help. When was the last time the Twins could open a season with the likes of Berrios and Gibson leading the way for your rotation? For all the angst and frustration for not being a stud, wouldn't most of us be pretty happy to have a guy like Odorizzi as our 4th, or hopefully, 5th starter? And he could be that. Does anyone really doubt the talent and potential of Romero? He's still so damn young, especially when you look at his time missed due to injury. But at some point in 2019, he could be anything from our 1-3 best SP. Mejia has the potential to be a 3-5, but needs the next couple of months to show it. He could also be a FINE TO if Gonsalves or Thorpe displace him, and both could. And BTW, Gonsalves needs to be up, and up soon, to get ready for 2019. What about Santana? A "simple" finger surgery practically turned in to a daytime soap opera on its own. I am NOT downplaying any kind of surgery. But compared to OTC or TJ, or any kind of shoulder, knee, hip surgery, this is pretty minor stuff. I just don't believe his late 2018 arrival will equate to any kind of trade. Considering his career, and his career since joining the Twins, would a healthy 1 year deal be a bad thing? Would you really bet against him? Oh, and there is Pineda. About to begin his rehab in the lower minors, he could still make an appearance in September in the pen to continue preparation for 2019. He is not a stud, but he has been a proven, solid, quality MLB SP. At worst, he could find a new career path post surgery as a top RP. Speaking of the pen, I was shocked by the trade of Pressly. I saw him as the closer next season, possibly this season. I get the opportunity and value, but was still surprised. I find myself shocked to say that the bullpen for 2019 might be my biggest concern. I like Rogers more than most, especially if used right. Hildenberger has proven to be a stud if not over used, like any RP. Hopefully, the relatively young Reed will return to form. We are SO past Belisle and his veteran influence. It's time to audition the arms in Rochester and see what we may have! And it could mean opening the wallet for a guy or two, and we can easily afford that. The whole point being, there is a tremdous nucleus here, as Ted points out. The potential of the rotation is something we haven't seen in years. Sano and Buxton may be keys, but keys we can be OK with if even one gets it together. We need to to 3 things: 1] Do WHATEVER it takes to get Sano and Buxton ready mentally and physically for 2019. 2] Spend the next two months to experience/audition guys like Cave, Garver, Wade, maybe Gordon, Reed, Curtiss, Busentiz etc, to set up 2019. 3] Make the right FA move or trade, or two or three, to fill in and build this roster. The nucleus is there. It's what they do with it now that will define this FO going forward.

I've thought for a while now Jax had a real chance to be a nice pitcher. Obviously the Twins thought the same thing. Age should not be held against him because his situation is so unique. Where he ranks at the end of this year may not fully reflect his potential. Mid 2019 projections may be more accurate.

Super busy with life distractions so I've been silent through most all the trades. Good news is, nobody has had to listen to my ramblings, lol, and I've had the opportunity to read a TON of mostly great, well thought out and informative posts and opinions. Tom, Seth, love both you guys and respect your opinions immensely. And I have no doubt that each of you is more informed on the prospects than myself, or most all of us. BUT, IMO, FWIW, I think you are a bit too optimistic Seth, in your grades, and Tom, I think you may be a little low, at least in regard to the Dozier deal. Let's be honest, the milb talent any of us really knows best is our own. And that's hard enough to grade and speculate on as is, much less provide instant grades for such a sudden influx of prospects from other systems. Still, it seems to me there is a lot to like here. Having numbers just for the sake of numbers means nothing. Theee still has to be talent and potential. Collectively, there appears to be some talent and potential here. Deepening a farm system for competition, depth, and trade options is always a good thing. But it will be a while until we really know what we got. But I do have to say, why so much angst and despair over the guys acquired? There actually is some talent and potential here. Did anyone really expect us to come away with a couple 2 or 3 top 100 prospects for a collection of 2 month rentals players and 1 controllable reliever? (Gulp!) I am going to disagree, Tom, on your Dozier trade the most with your "D" grade. (Like I know any better). I think you are being swayed somewhat by taking Forsythe back in the deal. The extra money is already spent, one way or another. The "little" savings to be had by not taking him back wouldn't affect the next 2 months, and would have no affect on next season. I'm not overly excited about Raley or Smeltzer, BUT, if I'm trading for prospects from someone, I'd rather be acquiring prospects from an organization reputed to draft and sign well and have a good system. The Twins, generally, lack bats at both AA and AAA this moment. Raley helps with that and offers some positional versatility. Very encouraged some reports believe good power may be an adjustment away from really good power. Smelter is LH, breathing, seems to have at least some life in his arm. Go ahead and forget about Forsythe. Concentrate on the positive. Go ahead and make this a "C" or "B" grade as you mentioned. Rijo from the Yankees is an unknown to me, except for what I have recently gleaned. Austin intrigues me in the short term, at least. If i could have one, reasonable, FA signing or trade wish the next off season, it would be for a guy who could be a solid RH bat with 20HR, 30DBL power who could play a decent corner OF and 1B. Could Austin be that guy? Could he need a change of scenery and maybe be that guy?

Watching Mejia last season, and a couple times this year, always felt he could be anyway from a decent-solid SP at the back end to maybe as good as a #3. Biggest problem to learn is just how to finish guys off and economize his pitches. I also feel his stuff would play up well in the bullpen if the rotation just doesn't work out, or Gonsalves and/or Thorpe surpass him. (Which I could see happening). One way or another, he needs to remain up the rest of the season!

Who is this Magill guy you spoke of??? Santana will, IMO, have too limited of a time frame for any trade value. He will be gone for 2019, or signed to a friendly deal with incentives. Personal note to Molitor: Please don't play Garver any more than you absolutely have to. I know he calls a good game. I know he's been showing signs of improving behind the plate defensively. I know his bat shows hitting and power potential. And I know that potential has been showing itself the past couple of months. But I'm just not sure if he's the same "gamer" that the 35yo AAA Wilson is.

Trying to quick hit this. 1] Really thought Dozier would go before Escobar. Wrote a week or so ago that were I a GM, with his history this would be the guy I'd be looking to rent, knowing he might not exactly cost a fortune to re-sign if I wanted to. Considering his history, I might even overpay some. I am very sad to say, for whatever reason, Dozier is offering no reason for anyone to trade for him. Frankly his best offer/opportunity may be a 1 year to remain with the Twins. 2] Infield depth is a question going forward. Other than Gordon, everyone is in the lower minors. Even if you keep Dozier, there is room for a smart addition. His contributions and love for the team, and the love and admiration of his teammates, if Escobar isn't a high priority for the FO, then im not sure what they are thinking. 3] Despite limited returns on some of the trades made, the simple truth is the next 2 months are about auditions. I hate the B.S. of auditions and waiting until next year. But the reality in sports...life in general at times as a reflection...is wait until next year. So much was right when the season began. So much went wrong. But there is so much to look forward to. Not just auditions for the next 2 months, but they are a part of it. There is still so much damn talent and potential with this roster than it seems almost inconceivable they could bottom out again...relatively speaking...especially with a few smart moves and promotions. 4] Speaking of...time for promotions and auditions! The season sucks, and so do some performances. Doesn't mean all the talent does! As an organization and as a fan base, let's Play Ball and have fun and audition for 2019!

Was just wondering the other day if there was a 1B/OF of at least decent defensive ability we could get before next season to back up those spots and DH. Austin is probably not that guy. But you know...change of scenery...new hitting coach...still 26...who knows. Might get lucky. Escobar hurt. Pressly only hurt a little but was surprising. Not sure I'm overly impressed by anyone brought in, though there is, at least, a little talent and depth to work with here within the system. Except for Pressly, these are all 2 month rentals. Did anyone truly expect more than some fliers whee 1 or 2 might turn out? The win is not a flier or two to turn out. The win is working toward 2019 and taking a longer look at what you have to contribute towards it. You can sign FA. You can make trades. But you can't take honest, long looks at your AAA prospects until you clear space and offer them an opportunity.

Dozier and/or Duke to Boston when the series is done?

A little shocked by the Escobar move. Really thought it would be Dozier, at least first. Hate losing Escobar as he was one of my favorite players. Hope they re-sign him next off season! The Pressly move shocked me. I saw him closing next year and to end this year. I can't hate the return though, looks solid and perhaps even a little surprising. The second controllable year seems the obvious difference. Less enthused with the return on Escobar, but seems pretty good for a 2 month rental to me.

Not being argumentative nor mean, but look up the numbers. He missed a season to TJ surgery. 2013 was his first season back, and he kinda stunk when promoted to finish the year. As a rookie, probably getting tired, his numbers were still better than Berrios's initial introduction. As I just re-stated in this same thread, look at his first two full years. Then look at the growth and transformation we are seeing. I'd prefer 3 years, but could deal with 4. He's only 30yo. He and Berrios, along with Romero and a couple others, could lead this staff for the next few years. If I'm another team, I'm asking about Gibson. If I'm the Twins, I hang up the phone.

I was a Gibson believer and apologist for a time. But even I began to sour in 2017 at one point. I have said this time and again, but I will repeat myself yet another time. Virtually everyone wanted him up early in 2013 because he was pitching well in the minors despite it being his first season back from TJ surgery. He didn't look good when he came up. In 2014, he had a really solid first full season and missed rookie status by an inning and 1/3. Despite a worse W-L record, his 2015 was better in every category across the board. He stunk in 2016, as did the entire team. And the first half of 2017 was no better, to be sure. The perception of Gibson is NOT based on his 2014 or 2015 seasons, it's based on hope when he was selected and potential/hope to be a front line starter for a pitching starved team. What we are seeing is the maturation of a quality arm who actually pitched well his first couple of seasons, then hit a wall, for whatever reason, and then figured it out. This is no SSS folks. He's been pitching like this since late July last season. I wrote an article about a month ago how Berrios may be the budding ACE of the staff, but how close Gibson was to joining him as a top of the rotation starter. Did you watch the game? I missed most of it. But I caught the last few innings. I was pumped after the first out in the 8th when he asked for the ball to keep going. To trade this guy would be a huge mistake! No matter how good Romero may be...and he could potentially be the Twins 1-3 starter by mid season 2019...Berrios and Gibson are our 1-2 starters to begin 2019. And I feel really good about that!

Best offensive season he has ever had. Late bloomer? We can only hope so! Unfortunately, he may still be a season or more away. That may not be a bad thing, BTW, if your short term doesn't stink.

I mentioned this in my post on Garver the other day. I don't think there is much question that a healthy Castro would have been the primary catcher if healthy. Garver could "break in" as the backup and DH some and learn on the job. And perhaps Molitor has been leaning on Wilson in a similar fashion; letting Garver split time and continue to learn from another veteran. And really, Wilson seems pretty salty behind the plate. But there also comes a time for the youngster...with talent, potential and a future...to have the training wheels removed and be allowed to play and ride with the big kids. Garver's opportunity and time is NOW. He should be catching 70% of the time, or close to it. (He can also DH some, as he did tonight against Boston). Wilson needs to be the backup and erstwhile veteran. Garver actually has a future with the Twins. Wilson does not.

BTW, no rose colored glasses, he wasn't dominate and threw way too many pitches, but the SO were OK, and 1 more IP would have still been a quality start. Yeah, I know, optimistic. Just saying, was better than I expected. Question I have is, another, better start or two, is he trade value with the August waiver wire? Or do you bank on a fully healthy Santana for a 1 year deal for about 7M with incentives for 2019?

THIS. ABSOLUTELY. Some want to like on Castro's poor production before he hit the surgeon's table. But unknown to us, he was playing on a bad knee. I believe all along Garver was supposed to be the backup and learn and be groomed. Suddenly he was thrust in to a role not intended. Wilson was supposed to be the veteran AAA catcher to work with the staff there, and come up for a short stint here and there if necessary. Obviously things haven't worked out that way.