Major League Ready
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Because a team with half the revenue of some other teams has to get twice the production per dollar spent. Spending wisely is absolutely essential to success. NFL/NBA/NHL fans understand this in leagues where spending is relatively equal. The payroll for top MLB teams is triple the bottom teams. We should all be very concerned with how wisely the available payroll is spent.
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Spring training game thread: week of Feb 21
Major League Ready replied to mrtwinsfan's topic in Minnesota Twins Talk
I have been on this bus since it became evident the talk of building a contender around Ryan/Lopez was not just positioning for a good trade return. It's really too bad because this team was really well positioned to rebuild in a relatively short period of time. Of course, that remains true, but they will have lost the opportunity to adda couple of important pieces. Joe Pohlad and Falvey were not great but now we have a Pohlad that thinks he knows how to run a baseball team. Doing a 180 when you have started the rebuild process does not suggest competence. Thinking you are going to turn a 70-win team into a contender while doing virtually nothing to improve the team does not suggest competence. How smart do you have to be to look at well-run organizations like the Cardinals and Brewers and follow their lead. I have never had so little faith in this organization. I am confident some contributors will come from the depth we have in the minors. We will get better. We just will never be a real contender until we get rid of the Pohlads and I have never been in that camp. Now I am. -
How many of the pitchers who gave up a run in that game will be on the major league roster? The answer is one, Cole Sands.
- 48 replies
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- ryan jeffers
- alex jackson
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I think the problem with this line of thinking is that Roden was not the target of this trade. Rojas was the target and Roden was the best addition he could get in the trade.
- 31 replies
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- alan roden
- austin martin
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I think there was a good match with the Mets. Williams was an ideal target. He will probably make his debut this year and another middle IF prospect would be ideal. The question is could we have also gotten a good pitching prospect. IDK but you have to believe 2 years of Ryan would have been worth more to the Mets than 1 year of Peralta. I like the idea Williams and Culpepper for SS / 2B and Keaschall in a Castro like role. He could play every day between 1B/2B and OF. Perhaps even backup CF. Think about the athleticism of that team plus Jenkins and Rodriguez in the OF. Lewis would be the slowest guy on the team.
- 41 replies
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- joe ryan
- pablo lopez
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We have no idea what offers were made. However, we can be reasonably sure there would have been good offers made for Ryan, Lopez, and Buxton. Tom Pohlad chose to focus solely on the short-term and in doing so lost the value @LastOnePicked is referencing. They have already lost virtually all value for Lopez. We will find out over the next 5 months if that lost value delivers a playoff team.
- 41 replies
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- joe ryan
- pablo lopez
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The over/under in Vegas is roughly 73 wins which sounds about right to me. IMO, they would need to get a Keaschall/Arraez kind of 1st year boost out of players like Jenkins/Rodriguez/Gonzalez/Culpepper/Bradley, and Abel. Unfortunately, I think the position players will be held in AAA in favor of established players like Larnach, Wallner, and Lee.
- 41 replies
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- joe ryan
- pablo lopez
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You have to believe teams are questioning Hoskins health. He was injured until the end of 2025. He appeared in 8 games at the end of the season but he only had 11 PAs. You have to believe teams are suspect of his health which would explain the Milb contract. If this is the case, it would have been a very poor decision for the Twins to put their eggs in the Hoskins basket. They have traded for more than enough injury ridden players.
- 77 replies
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- austin martin
- james outman
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This makes sense to me. I thought they signed Larnach because they thought they could get something in trade. Larnach and Wallner on the same roster does not make sense given the other options with a more complete game. I really hope to see a productive Jenkins or Rodriguez in one of those spots by June.
- 77 replies
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- austin martin
- james outman
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Do you ever ask yourself why the most successful teams outside the top 5 or 6 in revenue follow this practice you condemn. I doubt you are unaware of what the Cardinals did this year or how Houston built their team or more recently the Cubs and Red Sox. Are you unaware of the myriad of trades the Guardians, Brewers, and Rays have made over the past couple of decades that have been a huge contribution to their success, or do you just choose to ignore the many examples that don't line up with you thinking? There were quite a few examples this off-season. The Cardinals traded Donovan, Contreras, and Arenado, not to mention they are paying gray $20M to pitch for another team and they traded two very good position players. Does this prompt you consider your position or do you just assume you have a better understanding of running a team that the entire Cardinals front office? The Brewers traded Peralta and the nationals traded Gore. The Ray's, Guardians, and Brewers, make this type of trade frequently. Are all of these teams incompetent? I am curious how you interpret their actions. What is it you understand they don't?
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I looked up the definition of blowhard to see if it said a person who looks at how successful teams have built winning teams and believe their team should follow a similar strategy. Instead, I found this definition. NORTH AMERICAN ENGLISH informal derogatory 1. a person who talks in a loud, opinionated, and pompous way with little effect: Kind of ironic! In this particular case, I would define it as someone who wants his team to do pretty much the exact same thing that has led to failure and then criticize those who think that it does not show great wisdom to do the same thing and expect a very different result. I guess I should add this expectation is expressed in an opinionated, and pompous way to the definition.
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I think it's a fairly adept analogy. Five bucks isn't getting you anywhere and this team is going nowhere. So, does it really matter if you have 5 bucks or Joe Ryan if the goal is to get somewhere. Milwaukee, Tampa, and Cleveland understand trading guys like Peralta and Burnes CAN return players that have an impact and low cost for 7 years. Assets that produce for 7 years are far more valuable than assets that produce for 1-2 years. While this is risky. it's the best way to overcome the disadvantage of lower revenue. If we bother to look at how teams with lower revenue constructed winning rosters, we will quite often find they either drafted extremely well or executed this strategy or most likely a combination of both.
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I will probably be the most inclined to watch the games when someone is pitching that could be part of a long-term solution. That will be 60% of the games assuming Ryan and Ober remain healthy. of course, I will watch the games Ryan and Ober start too but there will be an extra degree of intrigue with the guys who have a chance to eventually bring us back into contention.
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It might help their odds of getting into the playoffs in 28 or 29.
- 25 replies
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- pablo lopez
- brooks lee
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What are our alternatives? We could spend an additional $40M. That would be worth 3 wins. I doubt that propels us into greatness. We could trade away a bunch of prospects to fill our many holes. Is that what we see from successful mid-market teams. Not even a little. I would vote that the organization focus on getting better and the strategies and practices that have been responsible for the success of teams like Milwaukee, Cleveland, and Tampa. Avoiding proven strategies because we have not executed them well would be the height of incompetence.
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Were you expecting a rebuild to work every time? It makes little sense to look at it this way other than to confirm it's not guaranteed success which we all know. The questions we should ask are ... 1. What practices have been successful for teams with modest revenue? 2. How much have players acquired as prospects contributed to low revenue playoff teams. 3. What have been the relative contributions of established players acquired in trade for prospects. The answers to these questions quite clearly illustrate the importance of low revenue teams acquiring prospects whenever they are in a down cycle.
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Yep. That ship sailed around the time when Gore and Peralta were traded. Assuming they don't make the playoffs which is a fair assumption, and Ryan/Lopez lose significant trade value via injury, this decision will go down as monumentally incompetent.
- 54 replies
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- pablo lopez
- pete maki
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Reviewing a Twins Trade That Helped No One
Major League Ready replied to Cody Christie's topic in Twins Daily Front Page News
When you trade a player that is not likely to make an impact you get one back of the same ilk. Isn't that the nature of these trades? -
Tom Pohlad has stated they have to be contenders this year. OK, Given the state of the team, contending would require a payroll level that would not be profitable. You can choose between contending and profitability, but you can't realistically have both. Chose a path. If you are unwilling to spend, manage the roster / assets in a manner that provides the most likely path to success. They are following a plan with little chance of short-term success while diminishing their chance at future success. BTW .... I realize I am preaching to the Choir.
- 66 replies
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- josh bell
- taylor rogers
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Doing the same thing and expecting different results is not a good strategy, it's the definition of insanity. What successful franchise would follow this strategy? What are the Cardinals doing in a similar situation even though they have a fair amount more payroll capacity? Is this what the Guardians, Rays or Brewers would do? Not a chance. They were bad with Joe and Falvey but Tom's "strategy" is the product of a special kind of incompetence. Imagine someone in management saying here is my plan to make a contender out of one of the worst teams in the game. We spend less, add a couple of mediocre players to fill holes, and ignore a BP that was decimated. Tom guiding this team's direction looks like the worst-case scenario to me. I will hope along with everyone else here that everything falls in place as you have outlined but the odds are VERY long indeed. This team getting sold is the only way to salvage this train wreck.
- 66 replies
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- josh bell
- taylor rogers
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I completely agree and I was trying to establish an accurate value for drawing 350,000 fans. A $13M free agent averages about 1.5 WAR. They don't put fans in the seats and such a player probably would not have made a difference on the 24 Twins. You may recall, the two free agents that had the most support here were Jordan Montgomery and Rhys Hoskins. There is a common conclusion in this forum that decreased spending wrecked the 24 Twins. We would have been worse had we signed Montgomery and Hoskins. I guess the point is that there is no certainty that spending would have saved the 24 Twins and the theory that spending will be recouped at the gate is also far from certain.
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Why doesn't anyone ever do the math in these debates? Let's see if we can all agree on the appropriate math. Then, we can speak in much less abstract terms. 350,000 Fans X Average Spend. I have seen estimates from $55-85 for average spend. If we use a high estimate, let's say $80, the revenue would be $14,560 after revenue sharing of 48%. However, you also have to account for player benefits and taxes which would equate to roughly $13M being available to spend on salary. This assumes the team makes the investment expecting no return on their investment. Would you agree?
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I always assumed those seats behind home plate belonged to season ticket holders. I would not think the Twins have the right to put people in someone's seat if they don't show up by the 3rd inning. What if they show up in the 4th inning? This could have other complications as well. If someone is attending with their wife and 3 children, you have to have 5 available seats together. Maybe that would not be a problem on a Wednesday afternoon game. I guess this program becomes more viable the worse they suck so you might be on to something. Perhaps more to the point, I would not anticipate such a promotion having any impact on attendance as I doubt someone is going to show up for a 1 in 10,000 chance they are chosen. If the promotion was get 4 seats a family of 4 would have a 1 in 2,500 chance assuming 10,000 in attendance which of course is a very low estimate which would result in a total attendance for the season of 800,000.

