LyleCole

To the screams of other people, this is a point I have been making. IF the Ownership is serious about increasing payroll, now is the time to demonstrate it. While I think the current team is mediocre it has a chance to make the playoffs. But if we had a huge influx of talent it could be a playoff contender. If not, then why keep Ryan Jeffers? Why keep Joe Ryan? If you aint going to pay them, trade them before you lose the significant trade value they have right now.

What evidence do you have to suggest they will? They have not spent the money to be competitive. They won two championships more than 35 years ago with a special combination of players but have not invested on the team to keep it competitive.

IF your goal is to win a division then perhaps that is meaningful. Since 2000 we have won the division 9 times, which seems reasonable. But, we have only been the wild card once in those 26 years. ANd of course, in those 10 playoff trips we have won one wild card series and one division series (in 2002). I think it is pretty telling that in 6 of the 9 division championships, the Twins would not have been the wild card team. We have competed in the worst division in the American League. And, again even though we had HOF player in Joe Mauer, a player who was a HOF level player in his shortened career, and a mulitple Cy Young winner, we did not have a good enough team to truly compete for the World Series. If you look at all of those rosters they had major holes up and down because the ownership did not invest in the team. I am glad you enjoy this team. Sometimes the entertainment is more valuable than the winning. But just think how good the team would be if the owners invested $50 million in pitching.

No, you stated that the President of Baseball Operations, which was Derek Falvey, presented the budgets to ownership. To refresh your memory here is the quote "You do understand that the head of baseball operations brings to ownership the plan " which implied that he was the one setting the budget. And you do understand that is not true. Ownership set the budgets and the front office had to make the roster within those parameters.

Yeah. If you believe that the head of Baseball Operations, whose job really depends on how the team performs not by the money it makes (or does not lose), would WILLINGLY bring to ownership these payroll budgets then I have a bridge to sell you.

IT isn't an opinion, it is fact. In the past 15 years the Twins have had a total payroll above the median payroll 2 times, peaking at 12th place in 2000 ****ing 12. They were 15th in payroll in 2023. In the past 15 years the Twins have only spent more than the league average once, in 2012, by $3 million. Even with that outlier year, they have underspent the average MLB payroll by $24.8 million annually. Please, signing Puckett and Mauer are anecdotal and not even close to an argument. And here is what it meant: in the last 15 seasons we have gone to the playoffs 4 times. We have one single playoff win to show for it, with a playoff record in that stretch of 1-9. If the owners spend the money to just the league average adding 1-2 quality players to the roster, they could have been contenders, not pretenders. If they want to spend money now to make this team competitive, then do it and acquire some players at the deadline and make the contract offers to Jeffers and Ryan needed to retain them, along with other high end players. If they do not, then dump everything that moves to build up the prospect bank so that in a handful of years we can become competitive.

Like I said, the real basis of my argument is the fact, the ABSOLUTE fact that cannot be denied, is that the Twins ownership will not spend the money. That is the one consistent feature of this team across GMs and Managers. If we were really serious about our prospects and that this is a good team that can be competitive, we would be looking at MAJOR trades at the deadline. Packaging prospects (prolly not Culpepper or Jenkins) and perhaps one of the younger players already on the roster like Keachall, to bring in a player that will be difference makers, ALONG with a few other minor moves. Put a trade package of players together for Josh Hader or Reid Detmers. How about another for Mason Miller to bring in a true closer. Put another package together for Brooks Raley. It might cost the Twins Luke keaschall or Brooks Lee, Eduardo Tait, Gabe Gonzolaes, and a few other players, and down the road a boat load of money to keep them signed, but that is what real contenders with REAL OWNERSHIP does.

Ummmmmm, sure. Your response is such a fact based statement it should be sent to law schools to add to their curriculum. Do you disagree that the Twins ownership is cheap? And the ages of the players? How much salary this team would have to add to even reach the league average? I do not see a hybrid keeping the existing veteran players on this roster into the future where the young prospects with potential will be developed into a contending team as a workable solution. It is better to pull the band aid and chose a route. The choices are 1. ownership opens its wallet and adds the veteran free agents now and builds the top prospects into the roster or 2. complete rebuild with this group of prospects plus high end prospects we get in trades. But the most likely path is the Twins will continue to go their same old same old, slowly moving up the prospects and filling the holes in the line up with low budget players.

What this best indicates is that we need to trade the veterans on this roster that will not be part of this foundation away for pitching prospects to match the offense in the same timeline. Someone posted the dream 2028 lineup, and it looks great on paper, but the problem is that the bulk of that roster will be very inexperienced players who will take time and will lose a lot of games because of that inexperience. The 1987 WS team did and the veterans listed in that group will be that much older. In 2028 Byron Buxton will be 34 years old and Joe Ryan 32. They are in their declining years were injury issues can be even more significant. Also, it does require that the Twins sign Ryan to that huge contract (I think the guy says $210 over six years) and Buxton would probably require an extension to enter his final year of his deal. That would be completely out of character for the Twins ownership group, especially investing that contract in Ryan who would be 38 in the final season of his contract. Plus, the probability of Pablo Lopez being part of that group is very low. This is the logical approach, with the only caveat being that suddenly the ownership group changes how they finance the team and will be willing to add significant players to that group, especially on the pitching side. Not the low ball veterans like Josh Bell and Anthony Banda, but players earning $10, $20, or even $30 million per season to fit in the holes in this roster. Lets put it this way, to get to "AVERAGE" MLB roster payroll the Twins would have to add $70 million in salary to the 2026 budget. That is one $30 million per year player and 2 $20 million per year players. If we had those players on the roster right now they would be true contenders. But they don't because this ownership group, and I can only say it one way, ****S OVER its fans. It is in a solid market with a beautiful urban stadium and they run it on a shoe string.

So, 5 years later he still is not carrying a full starting work load and pitch count level. And, because of his history I doubt he ever will.

It is observational, but I have my doubts about the Twins medical staff. I would also add that the Twins have a high propensity to draft pitchers that have had previous arm problems hoping that the injury gave them a draft value if they recover. Priellip. Quick. Ellwanger. LaPour. Generally, a well managed reliever throwing fewer pitches is easier on the arm than starting and throwing 90-100 pitches. And, that isn;t the only reason to look at Prillip as a reliever, even a closer. He has the fastball-slider mix that is very optimal for the role while his off speed pitches are not the best part of his arsenal. It would be the best outcome for Priellip to be able to be a regular part of the rotation, but the pitch and inning limits are probably never going to go away.

While it would be great to leave Prielipp in the rotation, I just do not see a scenario in which that really works out. Here is Connor's IP by year: 2020 21.0 (Alabama) 2021 7.0 (Alabama) 2022 0 2023 6.2 (Rookie, A+) 2024 23.1 (Rk,A, A+) 2025 82.2 (AA, AAA) 2026 82.1 (AAA, MLB) No one is going to ever trust his arm and injury issues enough for him to produce a full time rotational starter role. So move him to the bullpen where his fastball-slider combination will be lethal. Then he can fully produce across the season, although the injury issues will never fade from memory.

Again, I want to make clear that this is conditioned on the assumption that the Twins ownership will never pay the market value for their own free agents nor add market value free agents or trade acquisitions. I really don't know what "hair on fire" means? Does that mean pull out all stops? For example, with a terrible bullpen should they pitch Joe Ryan to 120+ pitches a game? Should they ignore any of Connor Priellips arm issues? Just curious. At the same time, ownership, management, and the fans should take a look at the long term picture and make the decisions that are best in that view given whatever financial constraints exist. Given the nature of our ownership (cheap), the best long term moves are to sell everything that isn't locked down and will not be part of that rebuild. That is Buxton (32 years old), Bell (33), Larnach (29), Jeffers (29), Joe Ryan (30). This is a mediocre team at best with an ownership who will not compete. Even more, this team is not necessarily a young team, with just one regular position player and one reliever under the age of 25. The core of this current roster does not have the career path to wait until the prospect pieces are gradually put into place. That takes time because players need experience at the highest level and not every prospect is going to be a major league player no matter how promising their minor league career. The blue print is the 87-91 Minnesota team. You bring in the prospects as a huge group (Hrbek, Laudner, Gaetti, Eisenreich, Faedo, Brunansky, Randy Johnson, Randy Bush, Viola, Havens, OConnor). You lose a lot of games (but that would be a tanking activity getting us to the top of the modern MLB draft). Some of those guys do not work out for one reason or the other so you bring in a Greg Gagne, Gene Larkin and Kirby Pucket to replace them. And then at the critical time bring in the right players via trades (Gladden, Jeff Reardon, Bert Blyleven, Roy Smalley, Don Baylor) to fill the remaining holes.

Again, here is the deal. If the Twins ownership is willing to add significantly to their payroll budget, for example signing Ryan Jeffers and Joe Ryan to market value free agent contracts AND add other higher cost free agents, not the bargain basement players they usually add to fill out the roster, then they should stand pat at the trade deadline and perhaps add an arm or two if they can make a cheap deal. But if that is NOT the case, dump everyone who is going to be lost at the top of their value right now, gain prospects to use in the rebuild. If rooting to make the 3rd wild card and getting swept in the playoffs is your kind of team, I guess the Twins and their spendthrift ownership are for you.

Not exactly true because their core players were very good and everyone knew it. They lacked a closer. They lacked a bullpen, and their starters did not have good seasons in 1986, including Viola. The fact that nobody picked them doesn't make them a bad team that was well tailored for the post season that only required them to win one series to get to the World Series. They also gained an advantage because in the playoffs series they were given home field advantage by rotation which really helped them, especially in the World Series facing a NL team that had never played there before.

Again, this is a mediocre team, not a real competitive team. Regardless, the underlying reason to me is that the ownership of the Twins will never budget the roster to be competitive. If they intend on signing Ryan Jeffers to a market rate contract, then keep him. But if they are not willing to pay him $20 million a season then get the best offer for him. ANd if they willing to pay Joe Ryan $30+ million, the same. And if they have that standard, why keep Byron Buxton if we can find a good trade candidate for him. Either do it all one way, or the other.

1987 was a whole different playoff regime and the 1987 team was much better than this team. It had a true established closer and a good setup guy. A top 2 starters in the rotation. And quality players at 3B, SS, 1B, LF, CF, and RF. And good DH platoon. Sure, everything is possible, but not probable. We need to deal with probable.

It actually does make a lot of sense. First, this team is mediocre at best. It isn't a real contender and it will not be if the ownership maintains their usual roster budgeting. Second, several of the players trade values are about as high as they will ever be, while the risk of injury or play set back remains. Joe Ryan with a full year of team control will create a huge potential market and bring back significant value. A player like Larnach, whom just about everyone wanted gone before the season starts, has a year of team control left and is hitting better than ever. I would add Buxton to that list because for a real contender he is on a budget salary vs. his value although his salary is a mountain to the Minnesota ownership. THe trade value of these players will never be greater, and all of them will be more than 30 years old next season. Third, players like Larnach etc will cost even more money next season and they are blocking the paths of several prospects. I would add Jeffers here with the drafting of Lackey, to a lesser extent Tilley. So, unless this ownership group has had a change in heart and is willing to spend market rates for free agents and potential trade acquisitions i.e. players wit $20 and even $30 million annual contract value, the absolute best move is to trade these high value players at their peak value to set up the prospects for the next rebuild around Jenkins, Lackey, Rodriguez, Culpepper, etc.

Getting anyone from the draft to be a major league contributor is spectacular. Hopefully we get a few MLB relievers (for the Twins) out of this draft. But that is far from the most likely outcome. I guess I am not as optimistic about Twins scouting or development as you are. And, I am very pessimistic on the Twins medical staff who cannot seem to keep pitchers healthy.

I guess how important is it to gain one of the three wild card playoff spots when this team is not really competitive? My guess is that the Twins will be "buyers" at the trade deadline because that is the mediocrity the ownership strives for.

Every draft brings the joy of the upside. But I see a lot of relievers in this group which lowers their draft value significantly. Comp B Brett Renfrow - I see a lot of Cole Sands profile here. Similar size and pitch selection. I am sure they will start his professional career as a starter. Round 3 Ethan Wachsman Big HS kid with raw stuff that will take a big bonus to lure him away from Wake Forest (I am sure the Twins already know that parameter). He is all the projections of an 18 year old kid. Round 4 Tommy LaPour I think he will also start his career as a starter but I worry about the elbow issue that impacted his 2026 career. IF he can develop his slider and change, he might be able to stay a starter but he lacks control on his slider. Round 5 Steele Murdock I see his future as a reliever and he was a solid closer in the Cape. In the later rounds, I see Bayles and Burns profiling as relief pitchers. But relief pitchers are valuable, especially in the modern game, and you need significant depth there. I think this draft is a much different draft if they select a college arm that profiles as a MLB starter in round 2 instead of doubling up on the catcher position (although I just do not see Tinney as a catcher in professional baseball).

It is the same logic as trading Ryan Jeffers at the deadline, and probably related. If the Twins do not want to sign Ryan Jeffers to a market rate free agent contract, then trade him at the deadline. If they do, then keep him. And if they do not want to sign Ryan Jeffers, then why would they want to sign Joe Ryan to the same. The decision is completely in the hands of Twins ownership. To me it makes zero sense to do it half way, although I will add the caveat that we just drafted a catcher with the 3rd overall pick. But why keep Joe Ryan and have a poor bridge solution at catcher until Lackey comes to the majors, which might be a couple of seasons in the minors and then the transition time as a MLB player. To me you either play the game as an owner of a professional sports franchise putting out the money to make your team a competitor to win the World Series when you have the option. Or, you are building the team to become that competitive team. But if there is a Twins way, it is putting a mediocre at best product on the field.

Their minor league arcs are almost identical. The reason why Kepler repeated the rookie levels was he was a 16 year old European international signing. But if you look at the year 18 curves with WInokur they are very similar TO DATE. Kepler's big development off that curve was as a 22 year old in AA. That set him up for a long major league career. I am hoping for the same with WInokur, although it is never a certainty.

Exactly. If you total his performance at Cedar Rapids A+ as an 18 and 19 year old (2025 and 2026) you get a kid who has hit 27 doubles and 18 home runs in 425 ABs. His batting average and OBP lag, .226 and .282 respectively but a young player's bat to ball skill is the lagging indicator. The power is there and he is certainly a player to be developed. He has only played 2 games at first base in his entire minor league career, 14 total innings. I think the Twins should look to try to get him 20 or so games at 1B each of the following seasons to create some positional diversity.

False, especially with how the Minnesota Twins have treated prospects. If you look at the Cedar Rapids A+ roster, of the 23 players that have played a game this season just three players are younger than Winokur and 15 are older. Of the 25 players who have taken an AB for the Twins AA team, 24 are older. On the Twins AA roster there isn't a pitcher who is less than 2 years older than Brandon. While I am mostly from the more rush through the minors school than most, and the Twins, that does not mean every player should move through the system rapidly. Development is the primary role of the minor league system, and an raw athlete like Winokur is precisely the type of player that can develop over time in the minors and players can improve on the weaknesses that he has. AS with most of these kids, there is a league level where their skills will reach their limits. My prediction will be that WInokur will even repeat AA, which is the most important minor league development level, for a FULL season next year as a 22 year old (then only 18 of the 25 players would be older than him). I think year will be his sink or swim year though. AS far as "statistical" profile, I again disagree. He is an athlete playing multiple positions on the right side of the defensive spectrum who has hit 10+ home runs as a teenager, and in all of his stops in the minors. Of course the strike out rate is a negative factor, but statistically his OBP has been improving as he moves through the levels. Do I think he is a sure shot? Absolutely not. The odds are against just about every one of these kids in the minor league system. As I said, next season which should be a full season in AA (perhaps a late promotion to AAA) will be the telling point. If he shows massive improvement then the potential for a full major league career exists. A more mediocre year probably means a limited major league career at best. The fact is, we have seen it before. I would model Winokur's minor league statistical profile to Max Kepler's in all aspects (great athlete, developing baseball player). Kepler spent a full season in low level short season rookie ball. Then the next, in Rookie Ball at our old station Elizabethton. Then, as a 19 year old he REPEATED rookie league. A full year in A ball. A full year in A+ ball. Then, as a 22 year old at Chattanooga AA, he exploded and that triggered a pretty solid 12 years (and counting) major league baseball career.