TheLeviathan

Riverbrians point about Morneau's pitch selection is spot on. Prior to that at bat, I was secretly hoping Morneau would bunt.

Agreed, but sometimes some gloating, showmanship, etc. comes with being aggressive and hard-nosed. The Twins could use a few more players with an edge to their game. On top of that, most of the "self policing" is done in regards to the utterly stupid "unwritten rules" which are just a host of inane guidelines that discourage toughness and aggressiveness. Sano may need to be coached down a bit, but let's hope they don't neuter his edgy, confident play. I, for one, am very excited to have a player like that in our system with serious star power/talent potential.

It was a career defining, excellent deal, but I think it is fair to say over time that it lost some of its luster. Still a damn fine deal.

I can understand teaching players to respect their opponents, but sometimes I think this team goes a bit too far with that mentality. Not saying this occasion is an example, I don't know the conversations behind the scenes, but it's something I wish the organization would loosen up on in general.

Oooooof. Hope that doesn't end his career.

at least try to be fair in your analysis. Ryan did an excellent job in last years draft and in trading his CFs for good specs, but if not for Smiths work repairing the bad system Ryan left him....we aren't number 1. Epstein had no such predecessor, in his short time he has helped the Cubs make tremendous strides with a host of savvy moves. The difference is they have effectively used all three outlets, while we are only using two. The future remains o be seen how both play out.

I doubt Plouffe did, his binge seemed to be more fluke than PED. But if I was going to make a list of guys who might have used....I think Plouffe would top it.

Success to me would have been improving the rotation with at least two guy emerging as options for the long term. Or to have successfully added prospects via our offseason veteran pickups. We can wait and see on that one. i would characterize that remark as a realization. I think he knew there would be a challenge this year, but I also believe he thought he had significantly improved the club. Many of us were questioning that immediately, so there is no hindsight at work there.

That's fine, but that's just another way of saying he failed, but he failed because he wasn't trying. Which is fine, I'm sure many could find wisdom in punting another season, but I'm not so sure that fits with Ryan and what we know of him. This isn't a man that strikes me as a punter. We don't have to agree, but I think he meant those comments and believed them. Which is part of what is troubling. In any case, whether you believe he meant them or not, it doesn't change the fact this season was a failure of improvement. I don't think most comments here defending Ryan mesh with your version of what happened since you seem to believe he could have improved them and chose not to. Most defenders here are more or less arguing Ryan isn't accountable because his job was somehow impossible.

Was any of it inaccurate? I'm glad we hit big on Buxton and possibly others. Smith was brilliant bringing in international talent. But we can no longer do what Smith did and I hope we don't continue to draft in the top 5 much longer. So, no, I'm not minimizing. We've done some things really well. I'm just not content resting on laurels. A pat on the back shouldn't distract this team from getting ahead of the curve, not behind. (Something this organization could be criticized fairly for much of the last 20 years. They rely on traditional methods to a fault and it has hampered them from being innovative)

Past successes should never excuse indifference to improving. I don't like my favorite team resting on their laurels, especially when tart of how this team got to having the best farm in baseball was A) being awful and taking advantage of a system that no longer exists in the same form. (Int. FA) Great organizations celebrate their successes and look to stay ahead to keep them coming. This article was really cool though, hopefully all that homework will land us some reasons to celebrate these last few months.

I'm sorry, how did you miss the rest of that? In that very same chunk I called him very competent and influential. I believe his fear of risk is very influential in our decisions. (And by far my biggest complaint about him) What you highlighted was the notion that if outside factors excuse Ryan and if we were defeated before the offseason even began....how is Ryan even relevant? Some of you defending the failed offseason have basically suggested he doesn't matter and that nothing he could have done would've fixed a brutally awful pitching staff. I can't possibly agree that he's irrelevant, but that's what we've stooped to at times to take away accountability.

But we go about the same as Finland who far out-achieves us. I'm not so sure that issue is all that relevant. We could extend it slightly, but it's probably a moot issue. At least that's what research/studies are showing. Well, that's more administrative. "Support staff" can be misleading because that can include para-professionals which is a position most schools are desperately thin on because the pay is so low and the job is so crappy. I'd agree that districts could be leaner - I'd actually like to see them increase teacher pay significiantly to take on some of those roles. Or to have multiple hats on one person (curriculum advisor, tech coordinator, etc.)

Such as what?

Those were some awfully buntable pitches. Lucky he got hit....cmon Morneau - hit a gapper.

How is that different for any other team? We're not a small market team anymore, we are above average in revenues, play in a ballpark pitchers should want to pitch in, and have a very recognizable all-star on the roster. I realize a lot of things go into improving a ballclub, but I think Terry Ryan is a very competent man at his position. The bar of "improve 2012's pitching, particularly starting pitching" is an incredibly low bar for success. And yet we failed it. I don't believe Ryan should be held unaccountable to that no matter what factors may have influenced things. Those are ever-present factors no matter what is happening and if we're going to excuse his failures for those, why not excuse his successes by luck, good fortune, or any number of things out of his control as well? To me, it starts to boil down that Ryan is utterly irrelevant - so why defend him at all then? I guess I find the GM position more influential than to be constantly excused for successes or mistakes.

If that's your position than I think you should just post that. "FA is not an option to improve this club". Rather than mask it in all these other arguments. Personally I wouldn't shut out any avenue because there are only three ways to add to your talent, but we can agree to disagree. Much of the discord happens because we are digging past layers of flimsy arguments for the real positions which have boiled down to self-defeat, omitting FA altogether, among others. Those positions may well have merit but I think their proponents hate to even say it because its quite revealing of the depths of their pessimism. That's the real irony, I hold Ryan accountable because I believe he truly can/could have improved this club and failed. Those defending him paint a very bleak picture - he can't fail ultimately because he really can't succeed. what on earth could be more negative and pessimistic than that? As a fan, I can't accept that level of self defeat.

For the record, I used to be on the school schedule thing myself. Extensive research shows that it's actually not better for anyone to go year round, or at least, it doesn't bring anything more. Your last revenue is really the key to this issue and why it is so critical to resist voucher systems. (I'd argue the faculty systems point is a bit odd, education is a people-heavy system, the more people you have working with kids, the better. The cost that is really sky-rocketing is special education and that is an issue all to itself) At the same time, it will be critical for those schools to make sure they are safe, respectful, disciplined, and that education is valued in the community. Good ideas for this would be uniforms, strong faculty, and a lot of community outreach.

The problem is the argument has got steered into some bizarre need to look at trades/signings only in hindsight and not take in the full picture. It's bizarre to me to use hindsight as the primary tool for predicting whether it's time to make a move now or later. If we're strictly going to use hindsight....wouldn't the Johan case tell us we should never do it? Afterall, here was a fairly young guy, without a ton of innings on his body, a perfect picture of health, AND he came at a relatively tiny price. Yet, but what most of the "defend Ryan no matter what" crowd is arguing would tell us that was a horrible move and it educates us how to proceed. I don't see a way we ever get a quality pitcher. 1. Johan tells us we never trade for one, no matter how perfect it is. 2. Don't sign any top flight pitchers because 1) you can't because you are too small market and 2) because they'll be bad by their 4th/5th year Alex said it perfectly, we heard from these same Ryan defenders that he'd surely be charging in on his white horse to fix the rotation, afterall, how could it not get better? And now, when it's not better we have excuses like: we can't ever do anything because we aren't a big enough market, nobody likes Minnesota, the top guys don't come here, middle guys want too much money and too many years, the stars have not aligned perfectly yet, we have to wait until there are somewhere between 7-30 "good" options right when we most need them in our rebuilding process, and on and on and on) Why can't we all just say - Ryan failed to accomplish his goal when there were options on the market, a goal that was easily attainable, and considerable resources to accomplish it? I don't see any other possible conclusion in fairness to all the facts.

Nothing gets me excited about the rebuilding process like a roster whose average age is 30.

Seems pretty damning to me considering 2-3 "very good" options are pretty standard. I fail to see how this exit route is helpful. If the best you have is "we're just waiting for that one super awesome FA class when we have basically our choice of good options!" I'm not, in the least bit, hopeful.

You're right, garbage was strong. But none of those players offered any long term control. When you're talking about relievers, that has some significant value. They'll get more than AAAA filler, whether it as good as I'd like to see or not remains to be seen. (Probably not, but I'm hopeful)

byto

If that happens....sure. But it isn't a success yet by any stretch.

He is done for the year dtill right? If so, no reason to be interested.