TopGunn#22

Seth, Chris Sale would be. Gotta believe the Red Sox REALLY want to keep mookie. What do YOU think it would take to get Sale if we took on all 5 years and $145 million of his remaining salary ??

I would put the Twins odds of actually signing Donaldson at 15%. I'd take him in a heartbeat but that's what I think our chances of actually getting him are. I would still like to see a blockbuster with the Red Sox to get Chris Sale but...??? If we DON'T get Donaldson, I know it would cause a LOT of infield shuffling but I'd go get a slick glove-man for SS like Jose Iglesias, move Polanco to 2B, Arraez to 3B and Sano to 1B. A glove like Igesias would tighten the "D" across the board in the infield. It would also leave the Twins tremendous payroll flexibilty to get an ACE at the trade deadline depending on who is/is not contending and who is available at the right price. My other idea/wish has been to work a deal with Colorado for Trevor Story. First, it would give the Twins another TREVOR...but it would also allow the Rockies to put their #1 prospect at SS (Brendon Rogers). I really can't see Colorado contending with the Dodgers in 2020. Story is a great glove, and a power bat who doesn't need the thin air of Colorado to be an impact offensive player. He's flat out a better player than Donaldson, younger, and he plays a premium position. Depending on how Lewis and Javier progress, Story would be the kind of player I'd shell out some serious $$$ to keep in my core of players like Kepler, Polanco etc...going forward. Woudl Colorado do it?? Ask and you get...don't and you won't.

I want Chris Sale, not David price. HOWEVER...if the red Sox would include Eduardo Rodriguez in a trade if the Twins took on ALL of Price's remaining contract I'd do it. I've read several times that the Red Sox may have to include E-Rod in any Price deal. I can't believe Boston would do that. But I keep seeing it written about. Smarter people than me must know something. If no E-Rod, I'm not interested in Price at all. Let the White Sox have him. Trade me Chris Sale. All 5-years and $145 million. Twins get Sale for years 31, 32, 33, 34, & 35. At $29-$30 million per year. For a true ACE. I would give them Rooker and maybe a young pitching prospect (Enlow? Smeltzer?) for all 5 years of Sale.

My only quibble with your order is that I would flip-flop Clippard and Romo. The thing that is so encouraging to me is that Trevor May FINALLY started to look like the guy I felt he could be and when I watched Duffy throw, I thought he was a right-handed version of Taylor Rogers without the control. BAM !!! Last year his fastball and curveball just SNAPPED. I know bullpens can be kind of tricky from year to year but this bullpen looks to be what truly separates the Twins from the Indians and White Sox in the division.

Otwins, the Rockies #1 prospect is SS Brendan Rogers. They would probably consider trading Story because they would plug Rogers in. Polanco could be a 2B-man for them if they decided to play Ryan McMahon full time at 1B but they also have a young, speedy 2B-man named Garret Hampson so Polanco probably wouldn't have the same value to them that he would to us. I would expect the Rockies to want some young pitching if they were giving up Story and Gray.

Signing Donaldson also gives you the option of trading Sano in a blockbuster for starting pitching. In this scenario, you sign Donaldson, trade Sano to the Rockies in a blockbuster for Trevor Story and Jon Gray and move Polanco to 2B. Arraez becomes your super utility guy at 2B, 3B, and LF and you either sign a stop gap 1B-man like Moreland (Gold Glove quality) or rotate Garver, Marwan, etc...at 1B. Your lineup is BETTER. You have Gold Glove quality infielders at 3B, SS & 1B with Polanco probably being above average at 2B. Pitching staff: Berrios, Gray, Odorizzi, Pineda, Dobnak (possibly a trade deadline arm). Bullpen---DEEP and GOOD. Lineup: Kepler RF Polanco 2B Cruz DH Story SS Donaldson 3B Rosario LF Garver C Moreland 1B (Marwan, Adrianza etc...) Buxton CF The bat who is missing is Arraez. He would play a LOT and would typically be at the top of the order. The hole is at 1B but do you play Arraez or Polanco at 1B ? But everything is better with Donaldson, Story and Gray.

I would also like the Story/Gray deal. Solves a lot of problems for the Twins. I don't think you can make a trade to "hopefully" make another trade though (Arraez for Contreras). You can't count on that. Three team deals don't happen very often in baseball. The idea that Gray is a comp for Gibson is laughable. Come on. But weather the deal is for Story or Arenado with Gray the deal makes the Twins a MUCH better team. Story and Arenado are FAR better hitters than Sano. Gray, at worst, becomes our #2 behind Berrios. BOTH Arenado and Story make your infield defense much better. Arenado and Story are Gold Glove 3B and SS. Moving Polanco to 2B and Arraez to 3B (if we got Story) would go a LONG way toward improving the infield "D." Sano, LaTortuga, Thorpe work. Who is the 5th player in the trade? Maybe Cave. They don't need Rosario with Dahl & Blackmon. They need a CF'er. but is Cave better than Tapia ?? Maybe throw another minor league pitcher their way...?? One other note: The Dodgers may need an on-base type of guy but with Gavin Lux, Max Muncey, Corey Seager and LOTS of other guys, they don't need a 2B/3B type of guy. I don't trade Arraez. The Twins NEED a .400 OBP guy at the top of their power laden lineup.

This is a great read. I don't have access to the trade values but let's just say it raised my eyebrows a bit. The way this works I guess, is that even though Rosario is 28 and a proven, productive big league hitter with some team control still left, Kiriloff is much more highly valued based on POTENTIAL and much longer team control. I've been all for trading Eddie to someone like the D-Backs straight up for Robbie Ray but based on these values, that just ain't gonna happen. I understand the skepticism of using these values, but I'll accept them for the sake of argument. O.K. so Eddie for Ray won't work. I've also been pushing to trade Eddie because I believe Kiriloff and Larnach will be better overall hitters in 2-years or so. But if the Twins would decide on a win now posture without selling out the future I could see trading Kiriloff for a young, controllable SP. Why not? You've got Larnach and Rooker right behind him ! The name that intrigues me the most is Frankie Montas of the A's. Yes, I know he got popped for a PED violation, but the kid has super stuff and he knows how to pitch. The other name that intrigues me is Jon Gray of the Rockies. (I also like Lance McCullers but Houston has so many young OF'ers that Kiriloff isn't a good fit). How about a trade of Kiriloff, Duran, Enlow and Thorpe for Gray and Trevor Story? This would allow the Rockies to possibly keep Arenado and plug their top prospect, Brendon Rogers in at SS. Gives them a great young OF'er to replace Blackmon very soon and several young pitchers. Maybe it would have to be more. It's obvious what the Twins get out of it. If this is really how front offices look at these things, I guess I'm ready to move Kiriloff and hang onto Rosario. If you can't get decent value for 32 HR's and 109 RBI's (and none of the comps to Rosario did a thing for me) then trade Kiriloff and keep Eddie.

If Buxton is healthy enough to play 140+ games it will be him. I feel like he's right on the cusp. I agree that Max Kepler has another level...IF he can find it. That would be him still hitting 30 HR's but batting .280 or so with an OBP of .380-.390. I think last year's team MVP was Nelson Cruz. Not only was he a tremendous influence on the entire lineup (I just gotta believe Buxton, Sano, Kepler, garver etc... saw his AB's and something started to click for each of them---I don't mention Polanco, because he was already the guy with the best approach of our young-en's). But look at the season Cruz had !! As we used to say when I was a kid, "I can't wait to see Cruz's Strat-O-Matic Card !!!" Doc Bauer makes a great point---These guys are all still really young! And they've got hitters like Kiriloff, Larnach and Rooker who are VERY close. But, it's Buxton. Yes MikeLink, we all all WISH it, because we all know, if Buxton ever plays 140+ games he is capable of doing some truly wonderful things.

The Tigers and Royals will be bad. But Cleveland still has tremendous pitching and has added pop to the lineup. If they trade Lindor, they will get some good young players but Lindor will be sorely missed. The White Sox have had a fabulous off season and look to be in the mix. It will be a 3-team race between the Twins, Indians and White Sox for much of the year. The Twins still need to make some noise. A starting pitcher who would be our #1 and make an impact (Chris Sale, Blake Snell) will require a trade. I'm not hoping for half measures with this trade. I'm looking for a blockbuster.

Vanimal makes a GREAT point: If 2B and CF are considered "weak" positions on the White Sox say hello to Luis Robert and Nick Madrigal. They are going to be pretty good big leaguers. If madrigal is already set to debut for the White Sox, Trevor Larnach shouldn't be far behind for the Twins. Larnach and Kiriloff are ready. Trade Rosario for some pitching.

I also agree with Dantes929. I think 100 pitch limits are stupid. 100 is a nice round number, so hey, let's limit a SP to 100 pitches because...yeah, whatever. The same with innings limits. Everything Dantes929 laid out I agree with. These are arbitrary numbers more decided upon by "feelings" than anything researched and/or provable. Just listen to Jim Kaat or Bert Blyleven or Jack Morris opine about this. Hard to disagree with their logic.

Good counterpoints IndianaTwin. After reading your insights I've "moderated" my views.

GREAT topic Seth. It's clear they still need at least ONE SP. I'd like it to be an impact guy who would be our #1. I've been pushing Sale. Why settle for Price. If your looking to make an IMPACT move, help the Red Sox keep Mookie by taking Sale off their hands. That said, I'd like to see Graterol open the season with the big club. The Odorizzi idea sounds interesting as does Zach Littlell for 2 innings and Graterol for about 3. Anyway they slice it and dice it, they need to handle him much like they did with Johan Santana his first year as a Rule 5 guy. They began the year with Santana in the bullpen and as he continued to impress he got higher and higher leverage innings. After the All Star break Johan became a SP who rarely went anything but 5 innings. Graterol could probably benefit with some time at AAA but the Twins will need him right out of the gate. Right now the starting staff is Berrios, Odorizzi, Dobnak, Thorpe and Smeltzer. Pineda won't be there until 25% of the season has elapsed. Pineda will be strong down the stretch but 3 rookies at the 3-5 spots in the rotation just ain't gonna cut it.

I like nicksaviking's idea. If the Twins are going to make a move now that they've missed out on all the non-Twins FA SP's go for an ACE like Chris Sake or Blake Snell. If the Red Sox are looking to cut salary and Price and Ed. Rodriguez have been mentioned, inquire about both of them but also ask about sale. I doubt Boston moves a young, controllable LHP like Rodriguez, but why settle for Price when you can have Sale ? Sale will cost more in payroll but we've got PLENTY of flexibility there. What would it take in players/prospects ?? Otherwise, Blake Snell is an excellent idea. He's an ACE, he's young. Lock him up and put him at the top of your rotation for several years. The other nice thing about Sale, is that you have cost certainty for several years (albeit a hefty salary) but go for someone you'd be confident starting game #1 against the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros etc... Don't SETTLE.

I also like the idea of Snell or Thor. If you're going to go the trade route, make a splash for someone who would front our rotation. The only way we compete in the playoffs is if someone better than Berrios is our #1 and everyone behind him gets pushed back one spot. We have the prospects. Let's make a DEAL !!!

I'd be interested in Ray because he has STUFF. With only one year of team control (and the option of a QO) I would think Rosario would be sufficient, maybe even expand the deal to multiple players. The idea that we would have to offer MORE than Eddie just doesn't make sense for a pitcher with only one year of control. Ray at least could POSSIBLY beat the Yanks in a playoff game. Matz would get shelled. Someone, somewhere had suggested a trade for Ray and another pitcher (current minor leaguer). I can't remember the pitchers name. And hey, if Boston needs salary relief and would consider Price or Rodriquez (who I prefer to Price) why not make a play for a true Ace like Sale ??

If we miss on Donaldson I'd like to see the Twins go after a great fielding SS. Sign Jose Iglesias as a FA or look to make a blockbuster deal with Colorado and add Trevor Story and Jon Gray. Not sure what we would give up...Probably a mix of major and minor league talent. Getting Story, a young, All Star SS would solve a LOT of problems for the Twins. Why would the Rockies do it ? Well, it depends on who the Twins would give up,(it would not be cheap) but if they are REALLY considering trading the face of their franchise (Arenado) why not deal Story to keep Arenado and put top prospect Brendon Rogers at SS ?

Maybe he's not Lindor, but if you could get Trevor Story that would be HUGE. How many more year's would we have Story ? If the Rockies are willing to "listen" on Arenado, they would certainly be willing to listen on Story. Move Sano to 1B, Polanco to 2B and Arraez to 3B. Your infield defense just got a LOT better with Story at SS (because honestly, unless you improve your SS defense in the infield, you're not really improving your IF defense) and the lineup just got a LOT better. You could acquire Story for less than it would take to get Lindor. What do you guys think we'd have to give up ??

Still, if that's all Texas had to give up (and there may be more to report on) the Twins could easily have beaten that. And Cleveland wouldn't really have given a darn about trading him within the division if they're willing to start a fire sale.

Baez already plays short. He's an All Star SS. Nico Hoerner or Bote is their probable 2B. Addison Russell didn't play much these last 2-years and is on the way out in Chicago. I would pass on Darvish.

I'm glad we still have Wander Javier. The Twins now have one more season to see what he could become. Either he lights the fire that makes him a prized prospect again, or he fizzles for many of the same reasons he's fizzled for the last couple of years and soon finds himself out of baseball.

If you're willing to consider Price at 32-million per year why settle for 2nd best?? Chris Sale should be the target. He's much more talented than Price and the cost is relatively the same except that Sale is under contract for 3 more years. If you're going to make a trade like this you go for somebody head and shoulders above what's available on the FA market. You go for somebody who will be your #1 and you can have confidence he can shut down ANY lineup. Be that the Yankees, Houston, the Dodgers, whoever. Who here on Twins Daily would be concerned that we would have Chris Sale pitching with a trip to the World Series or a Championship on the line ? I would still have "concerns" if the guy we were leaning the most on was Berrios, Mad-Bum, Ryu, David Price, Odorizzi. But Chris Sale ?? Give me some Chris Sale. Boston is desperate to keep Mookie. They MUST keep JD Martinez. Make a deal for Sale.

The marlins need SOMEBODY to be a competent bat in theri everyday lineup. of course they'd be interested in Eddie. That said, I think it's absurd you'd trade a proven big league bat for either of these guys. If I'm giving up Eddie I'm asking asking what else they're giving me in addition to Alcantara. Kiriloff and Larnach are ready. They will not be as good as Eddie right away, but they will be soon. They will get on base at a much higher rate and the power will eventually come. If I'm giving up Eddie I want somebody like Robbie Ray or Matthew Boyd. Smith...meh. Alcantara? Maybe. But certainly not straight up for a guy who got MVP votes last year and certainly not if the Twins would have to include something else.

This is an interesting article that really puts into perspective that someone like Mad-Bum could be mediocre at a very rich price. Honestly, the only SURE THING on the market is Gerritt Cole. The Twins have very little chance of signing him. But heck, 7 years $245 million would put them in the conversation. Again, he's the only sure thing. Everyone else is an exercise in speculation. Sure the Dodgers, Yankees or Angels would probably out-bid the Twins. Fine. The Dodgers have recently started operating like the Royals. The Angels, even with Cole aren't going anywhere next year or the near future, so let the Yankees go $250 million or more. Seems like avoiding the luxury tax is more important to the Dodgers and Yankees than ever before. Why not shock the world Twins ! Heck, offer Cole 3-years $120 million. I prefer Ryu to Mad-Bum as well, but the only sure thing is Cole.