TopGunn#22

That's the $64 question Riverbrian. It's not like there are just 2 other teams interested in Capuano and/or Harang. There's a bunch! To me, it's more a question of how patient the Dodgers will be in dealing with this surplus of starting pitching, or, if someone steps up and offers them a piece they really covet (Perkins???) would they just pull the trigger. This is what makes speculation like this so difficult. On another thread I've suggested what kind of package I'd push for in a potential trade with Texas. But in my package, I'm valuing Morneau and Willingham very highly. Others are pointing out the shortcomings of Morney and Hammer. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But I like your question "What team could swoop in and top my offer?" Seth!!! Where are you when we need you???

Jack, I agree that Morneau is poised for a big comeback season in 2013. That's why I would place his value to Texas as "high" and since TR can't "give his money away to anyone" if I couldn't fleece the Rangers out of what I wanted, I'd be content to hold onto the big guy and let him mash for the Twins in 2013. He's one of my favorite players. I don't want to just give him away. But if I could package him for 2 out of Olt, Andrus and Holland, I'd have to do it.

I would add that the reason there are so many teams inquiring about Gorden is that the Dodgers have stated he will probably begin next season at AAA. Cruz will be their 3B and Hanley their SS to begin the year. If I was going to give up Perkins and a #25-50 prospect, I'd want Capuano, (who L.A. doesn't need), Gorden (who appears to not be in their immediate plans) and either Javy Guerra (who is 27 and has closed), or Shawn Tolleson (who is a 24 year old RHP).

Riverbrain, good topic! At this point, Perkins is our closer, if we traded him, would that make Burton the guy? It was pointed out that the Dodgers are flush with RH bullpen options but have nothing from the left side. I would offer Perkins for Capuano, one of their RH bullpen guys (League is set to close, I doubt they would ever give up Kenley Janssen but they have an abundance of RH options) and Gorden. As Seth points out maybe we toss in a #25-50 prospect. We're sooo bad with middle infielders that I'd be interested in Gorden if LA would include him. He could steal 60 bases hitting out of the 9-hole.

One other point...Texas may have lost their best "thumper" in Hamilton, but they also rid their clubhouse of a major headcase. TR also needs to stress to Texas that in Morneau and Willingham they would be getting 2 great additions to their clubhouse. Texas is in full "WIN NOW" mode. That's why they may be willing to give up a solid prospect like Olt to acquire 2 solid citizen vets who are "thumpers" in their own right. Holland is expendable and Andrus may be with Profar waiting in the wings.

Mauer is the face of the franchise and I totally agree with those who are baffled by how under appreciated he is. We are not trading Mauer. I was very encouraged by the season Morneau had last year, and I expect him to show improvement in 2013. While the signing of Correia really let the air out of any optimism I had for 2013 it may be true that TR can't give away his money right now to sign free agent pitching. If we can't sign a Marcum or Edwin Jackson then trades may be the only way. I maintain that Texas is certainly feeling the pressure now that their best "thumper" just left and even worse moved to a division rival. Morneau's value would increase playing in Arlington. Offer to pay $10 mil of his salary. We won't get Profar. Fine. Andrus would fill a HUGE hole on this team. Holland would be a fantastic addition to our starting rotation. Olt would be very intriguing. Without Monreau and Willingham we probably don't compete in 2013, but roll the dice and find out. Texas will probably give up more NOW than they would at the trade deadline. In Arlington, Morneau and Willingham could be worth 60 HR's and 200 rbi. The sales job TR has to make to Texas is that they can't afford to wait. Offer Morneau, Willingham and a prospect about #8-10 (not a pitcher) for 2 of these 3: Andrus, Holland, Olt. If Texas says no, fine. Keep our guys for now, but check in with Texas every couple of weeks. Wear them down and get something good the Twins can build around. In earlier posts it was suggested that if we could get Andrus we could flip him later. No way. If you finally get a SS that good (and when it's been a franchise Black Hole) you keep him and build around him.

I'd go 5 yrs. 80 mil or 6 yrs. 90 mil. Please reference the thread with the idea floated about trading Morneau and Willingham to Texas. This would be part of the rebuild. With the pitching staff we would have for this year, fronted by Sanchez, and the young talent in the pipeline, the Twins could surprise some people in 2013 but would be a force to be reckoned with in 2014 and beyond. You spend for QUALITY. Sanchez is quality.

I think the Twins are giving up too much in this. Consider: The Rangers are a "WIN NOW" club and they no longer have Hamilton (who has just moved to a divisional rival). You offer Texas Morneau, The Hammer and a decent prospect (not a pitcher) for Olt and Holland. Texas plays in a hitters park where Morneau and The Hammer would flourish. Texas has a full rotation and Holland is on the block. If we spend not one dollar more on free agent pitchers, Holland is better than anyone we could sign. Heck, with the savings from Morneau and Willingham they could overpay for Marcum or Jackson or Sanchez. The key is what prospect do you give up? It has to be someone of value, just not a pitcher. With Parmalee at 1B and Olt at 3B why not give Plouffe a shot at 2B? With that kind of power in the infield, a gloveman like Florimon is O.K. The outfield would need both Hicks and Arcia but so what!!! With a trade like this we would have a solid rebuild in progress! We could find a corner outfielder on the market for a reasonable price. Maybe Benson would be the guy. The key is, Texas needs to WIN NOW. Why wait for Olt to develop when you could get 55 HR's and 180 rbi out of Morneau and Willingham. Finally, our starting staff in 2013 and beyond would be: Holland Worley Diamond Corriea Gibson/Hendricks With Meyer, May, J.O. Berrios, Wimmers, etc...in the pipeline. What top 10 Twins hitting prospect would you include in this package to get Holland and Olt???

They should quit messing around with the Corriea's of the world and go hard for Marcum. If Villanueva falls in their lap in January so be it.

No doubt "Pepe" was the best #12 ever for the Twins. He and Tony-O are my 2 favorite Twins. Probably could have just done a top 5, because some of these guys were AWFUL.

They have money to spend. Whether they choose to sit down at the table and play is another question...

Jim H. That's the point. ALL starting pitching is overpriced and overvalued. I think Nicksaviking makes a great point about a team that is VERY risk averse especially when it comes to pitching. E. Jax is just 29 years old and a 3 year deal, taking him to 32 and the Twins thru 2015 would be pretty good if/when the young guns Gibson, Meyer, Hendricks, May (Berrios)? are ready.

Johnnydakota: You're probably right in pointing out if we don't get a piece for the future. But the Dodgers have a commodity that teams will value...namely major league caliber pitching. I doubt they give up any young talent when they can deal major league arms to stockpile young talent. Riverbrain makes a good point about possible interest in Perkins. I know I got kwak's motor running with the suggestion of Crawford, but the only reason I brought Crawford up, is that to get one or two big league ready pitchers we might have to take something back that they want to rid themselves of. Dee Gorden is interesting as a #9 hitter and SS. I'm not sure how he compares defensively to Floriman or Dozier. If he can get on base at all, he could steal 60.

Amen. They should be going after this guy. he's only 29 and a 3 year deal wouldn't be a huge risk. He's an innings eater who can strike a guy out once in awhile. And he ain't Nick Blackburn!!!

They have made 2 good trades in acquiring young pitching. But it is beyond frustrating that they clearly refuse to go after some arms thru free agency. Really, signing Marcum and Saunders to 3 year deals wouldn't kill them. They would at least have a couple major league pitchers controlled thru 2015 to go with Worley, Diamond, Gibson and Hendricks. Depending on how they pitch and how the team performs, you either keep Marcum and Saunders or you deal them to contending teams at or near the deadline. With the TV money each team will be receiving in 2014 and beyond the Twins inactivity is enough to make you grind your teeth.

The Royals have an excellent young catcher in Salvador Perez, so they're O.K. behind the plate. In the short term, K.C. will be better and if some of their young hitters take off next year they could be competitive. However, if they don't pony up the money and sign Shields to an extension this will be a disaster for them. Myers might end up being a bust (I doubt it) and he's just the kind of young hitter the Rays need to build around with Longoria with all that good young pitching they have. On a scale of 1 to 100, the Rays get a 70 and the Royals a 30.

That his favorite baseball movie is "The Sandlot" says a lot about this young man. The Twins picked a winner here.

That said, I would be more willing to keep Willingham and sign 2 F/A pitchers. As I said, Marcum is a guy I would target and I'd offer 3 years or, 2 years with an option. The risk in doing my above deal with the Dodgers is too great because Crawford is such a big gamble. If we signed Marcum for the top of the rotation, I'm still somewhat intrigued by guys like Pelfry, Jurrjens, and Saunders. Take Crawford out of the lineup and slot Willingham back in at cleanup (still not sure who hits leadoff or #2) but the Twins would have a staff of Marcum, Diamond, Worley, (Saunders, Pelfry, Jurrjens, Hendricks/Gibson). Having Willingham's power in the lineup makes this a better option.

First off, I agree A. Sanchez is unrealistic. Marcum or E. Jax more likely. Interesting topic though, the Dodgers will have to move some SP's. It comes back to the question of what we would have to offer them. I wouldn't give any prospects up for Capuano, Harang or Lilly. The Dodgers probably don't need any salary relief the way they're spending, but how about this scenario...We trade Willingham for Capuano and Carl Crawford and have the Dodgers pick up 10-mil of his salary for the rest of the deal. We get better defensively and we get a top of the order bat which we are currently missing. Starting rotation for 2013: Marcum, Capuano, Worely, Diamond, Hendricks/Gibson. That's a tremendous upgrade over the last 2 seasons. Lineup: Crawford LF Hicks CF Mauer C Morneau 1B Doumit DH Plouffe 3B Parmalee RF Dozier 2B Floriman SS We're missing the power of Willingham, but we're much better defensively and on the mound. Crawford is a risk but I think this is workable once he builds his value back up, the Twins could flip him at the trade deadline.

I agree with those who've stated that Hicks won't be up until they get that 7th year of team control. It just makes too much sense. That leaves Benson and Mastro, and I agree with the thought that this should be a sink or swim moment for Benson. I can't see the Twins going out and signing any stop gap OF'ers. If they can' get all they want for pitching, one more guy in the mix for SS/2B makes more sense.

This is a great trade. And it will necessitate the need to accelerate the Twins career of Aaron Hicks. We now have Diamond and Worely in the rotation. Signing Marcum and Myers (just using them as an example) gives us for competent starting pitchers. We had ONE last year and he wasn't in the rotation to begin the season. We scored 50 more runs than the Reds last year, even more runs than the Rays. What sets them apart from us??? PITCHING! T.R. is starting to git 'er done.

That's the price of pitching and that's the price you pay when you draft "pitch to contact" strike-throwers. Hopefully, this last draft and recent Span trade is showing a change in philosophy from the Twins. Both A. Sanchez and E. Jax are 29 years old. 5 years and $65 million is too much for E. Jax but the Twins should swallow hard and do it. If they spend $13m a year on Edwin Jackson that leaves 12-13 million per year to divide up between guys like Lannan, Myers, whoever. Jackson is NOT Juan Marichal, but he's pitched in the A.L. and is decent.

Great summary. I like that we traded from a strength to fill a weakness. I like Revere more than Span and with Hicks and Buxton in the pipeline this was the right deal to make. The Twins still need to spend some serious money on starting pitchers for the 2013 ballclub. Every arm they acquire now can be used as an asset down the line, either at this year's trade deadline or in 2-3 years.

John, good conversation starter. 1. I think I'd go crazy if the Twins offered Liriano a one year deal. I would say I've seen him pitch enough to understand that if everything is PERFECT, Frankie can pitch you a good ballgame. You could say that for every pitcher in MLB. Pitchers need to deal with adversity on a pitch by pitch basis. Frankie can't. 2. Let other teams deal with Pavano. The Twins need to realize we got the best we could out of him and move on. 3. Bruce Chen is somewhat intriguing. He's probably very similar to Scott Diamond. One of them as #3 starter and the other as #5 would be O.K. But when the Twins now have $25-$30 million to work with to add pitching I would like them to focus on 2 of the following: A. Sanchez, E. Jackson, S. Marcum, B. McCarthy. I would offer Sanchez 15m a year for 4 years (2013-2016) and offer a 5th year if I had to. I would offer E. Jax 1om a year for 4 years (and a 5th if I had to). That's 25 million. I now have 5 million to use on a Brett Myers or Chen. I would offer either of them 3 years. I would have more to offer I I dealt Willingham. Starting staff in 2013 and beyond as pitchers like Alex Meyer, Wimmers, Berrios, this years #1 pick (unless a really good SS prospect is available when we pick) Sanchez, E. Jax, Diamond, Myers, Gibson/Hendricks. If not a Myers or Chen, what is the scoop on a non-tender like Jurrjens? How expensive, how effective could a guy like him be in the A.L.?? This gets to the heart of a Willingham deal. The Twins need his power, but I think they need to push Hicks and Arcia. Either one of them would be a defensive upgrade over "The Hammer." I would consider trading Willingham to the Rays, but only if I could get a Shields or Hellickson. I know it would take more than Willingham. His value is at its highest and the Rays need hitting. They have all the pitching they need. The Twins need to build for the future but they can't lose 90+ games next year either. Every arm they acquire this off season is an asset that can be used in the future as their young arms develop. 4. The Twins can't trade Mauer. He's the face of our franchise. Years after he's done catching he will be playing 1B, 3B, DHing. Yes we pay him a lot and he doesn't hit HR's but he's our Jeter. (Then again, it all comes down to what Boston is offering...)

JC: Great blog. Well thought out and well written. If the Twins were to be aggressive and sign both A. Sanchez and E. Jackson to free agent contracts, as you stated, they CAN afford to, and as poor as their S-Pitching is they NEED to. The most important point is that both are 29-years old. Throw in a Span trade with Tampa or Atlanta and we'd have a "decent" pitching staff. As TiberTwins stated, I too HOPE the Twins F.O. has at least discussed and planned with these future payroll possibilities in mind.