Twins GFP

Ummm..... Sample Size anyone? Mike Trout, Lance Berkman, Bernie Williams, Mike Schmidt... How about a little closer to home: Jason Kubel, Justin Morneau, Harmon Killebrew I could go on and on. All had slow starts to their career. Good thing no one wrote them off so early. 30-40 games is not enough time to make a decision either way. Factor in the injuries and it makes it even harder.

1/$10m is nothing in today's market for a (at worst) slightly less than average 3B. Especially when you do not have a clear backup. The Twins have bigger decisions to make than this. Sign him to a 1-2 year deal with an option and move on.

IMO, the powder blues are necessary, it is pretty much unique to the Twins. I am ok with the pinstripes as well. This is all about marketing and gear sales. Nostalgia is always a seller.

It always amazes me how dramatic the roller coaster of fandom truly is. This team was probably overachieving a bit during the first half of the season (along with the White Sox and Cleveland underachieving) and it was "World Series Here We Come". Injuries, some regression to the mean, and a Cleveland team playing out of their gourd finally caught up with them. Now the masses are screaming "Fire the FO!", "Fire Rocco!", "Gut the team and start over!"... 1) Expectations for this team were to be .500. Here we are. I believe that the team planned to be post-season competitive next year and this year was somewhat of a bonus. The Mahle and Paddock moves were calculated risks this year with more of a payoff next year. Maeda out till next year. Correa basically on a one-year deal to hold for Lewis. Pitchers coming up to learn the ropes, This all points to 2023 2) Blame whoever you want, but bud luck goes a long way towards injuries and prevention. The only way to stop shoulder injuries in pitchers is to have them stop pitching. HBP, foul tips, concussions are all not preventable. 3) The organization as a whole is stronger now than it was before the current FO regime took over. Statistical analysis, drafting power pitchers, rebuilding the farm system (the only reason our system is ranked low is because we have graduated many guys out). They brought that to Minnesota. Flexibility and adapting were unheard of prior to them. 4) There will always be something to complain about: Our fielding is horrible. We don't let our SP go long enough (despite statistics backing most of the decisions, I am looking at you Sonny), we didn't use our relievers correctly or why is <insert player here> batting 3rd or 5th? Every team has holes in their product. The key is to find ways to deal with those holes. Those teams that can do that win. This team will be competitive next year. The rotation should be stronger. They will try to fill in the lineup holes where they can. Buxton, Kirriloff, Lewis, Polanco, Stashak, should all be back healthy (at least to start). We will be having the discussion of over/under 90 wins before you know it.

In a bubble, I agree these numbers are not great. But I am glad that you added the overall slash numbers as it shows that their overall performance with no outs and RISP is fairly similar to the normal stat lines. (The same argument made for "great" or "poor" post season players. Given enough at-bats, they trend to their normal stats). I would be interested to see how other teams slash lines compare to their overall stats and how that correlates to their success on the field. Another thing that would be interesting (though basically unprovable outside of the team) would be to see how the slash lines compare with what they are supposed to do (ie runner on 2nd, 0 outs, was the batter supposed to swing away, hit to right to advance the runner, sac bunt, etc.).

This is quite possibly the most lucid post I have seen in quite a while. Anybody here thinking that Rocco has enough pull to set this type of agenda on his own is crazy. A more tenured manager may have been able to push the envelope on this, but losing Wes Johnson mid-season basically steamrolled everything. As with most teams, the general agenda comes down from on high. Rocco either gets on the bus or gets run over. Anybody here think the young SP coming up have any real experience going deep into games in the minors? Really? As for SP going longer than 5-6 IP, please refer to the plethora of statistical evidence that shows going the third time through the lineup generally has bad results for the SP, including Gray and his ERA almost quadrupling the third time. I would argue that Gray owes his statistical success this year to the way the Twins have handled him.

I am surprised anybody reads Reusse anymore. Articles that are always negative, constantly baiting readers. Needs to go the way of the Dodo. His "knowledge of Twins baseball" is no better than the average fan at best.

Forbes article describing how the 2013 Astros were the most profitable team ever: http://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2013/08/26/2013-houston-astros-baseballs-worst-team-is-most-profitable-in-history/ Another Forbes article discussing profitability and winning: http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2014/03/26/the-best-and-worst-mlb-teams-for-the-money-2/ Many owners treat their team as a business, yes. Those teams regularly prove winning is not a priority, the almighty dollar is. Look at the flip side. The Yankees spend outrageously every year and are in the playoffs almost every year. Boston, LA Dodgers, LA Angels, almost always at the top. Sure, some teams can buck the system through shrewd management, but their winning is cyclical. Keep good talent and win until they become too expensive, then trade everybody and lose. Spend regularly and you win regularly. To own a franchise is to be in a position where money is essentially irrelevant. When your worth is measured by billions, money is irrelevant. These teams are expensive toys, nothing more. Status symbols to brag about. Why else would Donald Sterling fight so hard to keep the LA Clippers?

Opening Day Team Salary: 2014: $85.8 mil 2013: $75.8 mil 2012: $94.1 mil 2011: $112.7 mil 2010: $97.6 mil 2009: $65.3 mil It's pretty rare that you see somebody defend the Twins payroll situation. Minnesota has seen increased revenue streams from television contracts and the stadium, but payroll has dropped to a level less than Target Field's first season. Conscious decisions were made to cut payroll at the cost of winning. How much better would this team be with Denard Span, Ben Revere, Michael Cuddyer, Justin Morneau, and Francisco Liriano, all moved due to financial considerations in the last here years. This doesn't include guys they gave up on that succeeded elsewhere (Gomez, Worley). The Pohlads have never made winning a priority in running this team. An occasional push here and there yes, but again done on the cheap. Will the Twins be better in 2015? Most assuredly. Will that be because of the managerial change? No. When we see Buxton, Sano, Rosario, May added to the roster, there will be an increase in talent, all at the MLB minimum. Gardenhire has done all the heavy lifting, his successor will reap the benefits.

Teflon and B Richard, you both misunderstand. Treating the team as a business does not mean they are looking to win every year. It means they are looking to make money. Why do you think payroll has dropped so precipitously since moving to Target Field? The move to relieve Gardenhire of his job is a very cheap way (relative to MLB anyways) to make it look like you are making an effort to win. The Pohlads are only making this move now in an effort to improve public perception of the team, which theoretically will sell more tickets. Firing Gardenhire was not a baseball decision, rather a financial one by the Pohlads.

To everybody that has been calling for Ron Gardenhire's head, congratulations. Your voice has finally been heard. Make no bones about it, this decision was not a baseball decision, but a decision based on the growing public perception that Ron Gardenhire is the main reason for the Twins losing 90 games plus each season four years in a row. If there is any question of Gardenhire's perception outside of Minnesota, read the public comments on the national articles. The comments are fairly consistent. "Gardenhire got a bad rap in Minnesota." "Would [insert team here] please fire [said team's manager] and hire Gardenhire? We would love to have him" "Gardenhire is getting the blame for the Twins refusal to spend money. We would take him in a heartbeat" The reality is that Terry Ryan had previously stated publicly that he expected Gardenhire back next year. Ryan has been very direct and straight with the media. He will withhold comment rather than publicly say something damaging. No reason to think he was lying then. What changed? Enter the Pohlads. Owners that have regularly treated this team as a business, looking only at profit/loss, not following the spend-money-to-make-money philosophy. Lagging ticket sales, a rash of recent negative publicity, underporformance from your highest paid players. What is the quickest, cheapest way to make a change to make it look like you are doing something? Fire the manager. Ryan and Gardenhire have been phenomenal in working within the confines created by the Pohlads. Injuries and bad luck have had as large an impact on this team as anything. If anybody thinks that bringing in a new manager will fundamentally change the way the Twins draft, spend, train, or run their organization they will be sadly mistaken. I hope the individuals that have been calling for Gardenhire's head for the past few years will also praise him as he leads his next team into the playoffs. Rick Anderson will probably be with him as they do. As for us, we can only hope that the next Twins manager will be as capable as Gardenhire was.

He will probably sign with a National League team, tear it up, and the Twins will get ripped for giving up on him...

Gardy is doing ok, but (grumble, grumble, rip, rip) The bottom line is that the Twins are playing better than anybody expected this year. Somehow they continue to stay competitive playing infielders in the outfield and having 2/5 of a starting rotation. I am not always a fan of Gardy's in game choices and loyalty issues, but somehow he regularly wins more games than projected (last few injury plagued years aside). He tends to get more out of players than not. Players want to play for him. What else do you want from a manager?

Why the rush to move relievers that are somewhat productive? Middle relievers have zero value on the trade market (maybe a low grade "prospect") and with the crummy rotation, we need these guys. I would not be in a rush to make any big changes on the offensive side, unless you can get great value for Willingham. Like it or not, we are not out of the race yet, and shouldn't destroy those chances

At least Lonny was accurate. None of this "the ball hit in the air to the outfield, and the shortstop makes the unassisted putout" or "the ball is heading towards the gap... and the first baseman makes the putout." Listening to Gladden do PBP is downright painful

Don't know if you will want to vacation up here this year. Not sure if the ice will ever leave any of the lakes...

I can't imagine that Bartlett has a long leash, especially if he will be backing up CF. Makes you wonder if Buxton is closer to a call up than anybody realizes...

As usual we blame Gardy for any decision we think is bad...

I have never been a fan of Derek Jeter. But I too have watching this game for over 20 years and yes Jeter is overrated. 1) At no point throughout his career was he ever the best SS in the game. Probably not even top 3. Larkin, Ripken, Rodriguez, Garciaparra, Fernandez, Rollins, Tejida, Reyes, Ramirez... Not even including defensive stallwarts Vizquel and Ozzie. Too many names were consistantly listed above him. 2) Defensively he was horrendous. Pick your defensive rating, they all say the same thing. 3) Offensively he was very good. He also had all-stars batting around him for virtually every season in his career. He was seeing better pitches because you waould rather face Jeter than the behemoths behind him. 4) There is a degree of compiler going on here. Not real effective in the later years, but hanging on. Dave Winfield? Eddie Murray? 5) Not enough can be said about the media garbage here. Take him out of New York, and he becomes very good, not godlike. George Brett, Robin Yount, Craig Biggio. 6) Think Jeter is a good teammate? Think again. Ask ARod when he first came over to the Yankees how he was met by Jeter, even though he willingly deferred and switched positions for him. Ask the upper brass who asked Jeter to swtich positions for the better of the team and were rebuffed. Ask every Yankee who has played for the team and wasn't part of the clique how they were treated. Does this happen other places, yes. But we are talking about Jeter. 7) You can not use WS rings in any argument for any player concerning greatness. Greg Gagne for the Twins has 2 rings, Biggio has none. Does that make Gagne a better player? One players team impact in baseball is so negligable compared to other team sports, it shouldnt even be in the discussion I am not going to argue whether or not Jeter is a HOF player. His offensive numbers are strong. His defensive numbers are equally bad (as Jeter played arguably the most important defensive position, these have to be part of the discussion). I will just be thankful that after this year I will be able to read ESPN again without having to to skip over the Jeter garbage.

While not a direct correlation to my previous comments, the comments on this thread does prove a certain point. A posting about the state of moderation on this site has 140 comments basically from the moderators and a handful of super-posters. Virtually no comments from the average Joe. Whether you agree with my stance or not, it would be beneficial for lurkers and small posters alike to sound off on this subject. For this site to truly be available to all, your feedback is essential.

I do not need to see every "hand slap" or "talking to" to understand how the wheels spin. Brock, I have had e-discussions with you before. I believe I understand what you and the guys are hoping to accomplish, But as Joe Average peruses this site and sees the same individuals pushing the envelopes on their comments, sees the same individuals attacking, but keeping it just enough vauge to not be a direct attack, what else can one think. You may not realize it, but perception is everything. If you feel insulted because you believe you are "trying your best", so be it. I was here early on when you were still trying to establish an identity. I have watched the direction of comments, articles, and the like. My perception is that there continues to be a Members Only mentality. I truly would like that to change.

A while back I quit posting because I felt that the moderators of this site were to concerned about protecting the "dignity" of certain individuals rather than allowing the general population to attempt to hold those individuals accountable. Since then I have been a semi-regular lurker, but have not had a real interest in posting any more on this site as I was not a member of the clique. From the looks of some of the comments on this post, it appears that certain groups continue to get preferential treatment. That is disappointing. That being said, I have supported the moderation in general. With the exception of the favoritism, I feel that the tone of this site has kept the focus on Twins related information. The attachment to ESPN means it needs to be PG, and jokes and comments that go past that should be addressed. Individuals looking for personal battles need to go to ESPN, the Trib, etc. Go work out your frustrations there.

At some point next year Morneau would acquire 10/5 rights and be able to veto any trade. Even if you believe that Morneau would be worth keeping around next year, that by itself would be a major hurdle in getting any deal done. Morneau's contract makes him very difficult to trade. I see him walking at the end of the year.

Replace Clement and Olmedo with Doumit and Plouffe, you could be looking at your opening day lineup.

I guess we are scraping the bottom of the barrel if we have been relegated to complaining about the potential of a $2 million vesting option on a fringe starting middle infielder. Can we officially now say that there is nothing left for us to complain about when it comes to the Twins?