Twins GFP

Hardy made too much sense the first time they got him, he makes too much sense now. For some reason the Twins felt he was not a right fit. Too bad. An above average SS on a team starving for one...

I would like to remind everybody that we are not going to sign 4 aces this winter. Regardless of whether we land an ace or not, we need to upgrade at virtually every rotation spot. Blanton would be an upgrade, however minor it may end up being.

I can't help but notice you didn't answer the question: If Span were a free agent this year, would he get a 5/75 contract? If you think he would, then I guess he has at least the same value as Upton, if you think he wouldn't, then I guess he wouldn't have as much value. Yes or no? Not to get into the middle of this mess, but the Span value discussion intrigues me. Lets look at a comparison: [TABLE=width: 445] [TD=class: xl65, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent][/TD] [TD=class: xl67, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]G[/TD] [TD=class: xl67, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]AB[/TD] [TD=class: xl67, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]R[/TD] [TD=class: xl67, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]H[/TD] [TD=class: xl67, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]2B[/TD] [TD=class: xl67, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]3B[/TD] [TD=class: xl67, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]HR[/TD] [TD=class: xl67, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]RBI[/TD] [TD=class: xl67, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]SB[/TD] [TD=class: xl67, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]CS[/TD] [TD=class: xl67, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]BB[/TD] [TD=class: xl67, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]SO[/TD] [TD=class: xl68, width: 39, bgcolor: transparent]BA[/TD] [TD=class: xl68, width: 39, bgcolor: transparent]OBP[/TD] [TD=class: xl68, width: 39, bgcolor: transparent]SLG[/TD] [TD=class: xl68, width: 39, bgcolor: transparent]OPS[/TD] [TD=class: xl67, width: 39, bgcolor: transparent]OPS+[/TD] [TD=class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent]Player A[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]136[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]488[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]69[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]120[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]26[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]0[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]29[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]98[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]4[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]1[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]56[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]150[/TD] [TD=class: xl70, width: 39, bgcolor: transparent].246[/TD] [TD=class: xl70, width: 39, bgcolor: transparent].332[/TD] [TD=class: xl70, width: 39, bgcolor: transparent].477[/TD] [TD=class: xl70, width: 39, bgcolor: transparent].810[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 39, bgcolor: transparent]121[/TD] [TD=class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent]Player B[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]146[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]573[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]79[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]141[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]29[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]3[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]28[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]78[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]31[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]6[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]45[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 28, bgcolor: transparent]169[/TD] [TD=class: xl70, width: 39, bgcolor: transparent].246[/TD] [TD=class: xl70, width: 39, bgcolor: transparent].298[/TD] [TD=class: xl70, width: 39, bgcolor: transparent].454[/TD] [TD=class: xl70, width: 39, bgcolor: transparent].752[/TD] [TD=class: xl66, width: 39, bgcolor: transparent]109[/TD] [/TABLE] Offensively they are not tremendously different. Player B steals more bases. Player A provides more power. Both are FA, Player A is 32 and a corner OF, Player B is 27 and a CF. Player A is Josh Willingham - 2011 Player B is BJ Upton - 2012 While there will be some value difference based on age and position, is there really a 3/$21 vs 5/$75 difference? I don't think so. Name recognition can be a huge factor. Nobody comes to see unassuming Denard Span, everybody wants to see BJ Upton, who has been hyped and effectively overrated from the moment he was brought up. I don't think Denard Span would get a 5/$75 deal as a FA, but I also don't think Upton's value is that much higher than Span's either. Just my 2 cents.

Somebody will. In 2010/2011, he averaged just under a strikeout per inning. This looks like a Joel Zumaya type situation. If Harden wants to show he still has it, there are very few opportunities better than here.

Aaron Gleeman has an article this morning about Rich Harden making a comeback. I think the Twins would definitely be interested. What would it take to get him here? I would offer a Major League contract with a base around $1M with reachable incentives pushing it to $4M. While not healthy for a while, Harden has had decent numbers. Thoughts?

Nope. Too many dollars for the projected return. I would rather see Minor League offers on guys than a 3 year contract here.

If you're the Twins, and you truly have no intention of attempting to resign Morneau, Then I think moving him at some point for a pitcher could be worth it, but I wouldn't give him away. If Morneau isn't traded, the Twins could give him a qualifying offer after the season. Morneau for 1 yr/~$14M or a 1st round pick are both palatable at this point. Any offer made for Morneau needs to be better than those options. Morneau +$7M for Matusz seems a little high for me, considering Matusz has not been lighting it up. Maybe an even swap (provided the Twins pump the funds back into payroll).

I'm not sure about the teasing, Meyer is a far better option than either of these two. Cingrani projects to be a 2/3 type pitcher and Sheilds has 1 year left on his deal. The Twins need depth at pitching just as much as they need it at the major league level. This was a smart move. They have a nice core of hitters coming up through the system which will complement a decent core of hitters that are currently here. But with no pitching, they will be mediocre. I have no idea if Meyer will make it, but they've added some desparately needed talent to the pitching pool to complement the nice core of hitters they already have. Getting a Meyer, with a very spotty college record, dominating kids younger than himself in A ball, short on fluid pitching mechanics on the come is far riskier than either Shields or Cingrani, but admittedly with a bigger potential payoff far down the road. I think it is incumbent on Parker Hageman to do an in-depth video/statistical comp on Randy Johnson's career at the same point to provide some vision to Twins fans on what may or may not be in store 5 years from now. Obviously, a trade for Shields would have to have involved some kind of contract extension implicit in the trade, perhaps that's why the deal was never consumated. Cingrani has a lower ceiling than Meyer to be sure, but he could have been penciled into the desperately-seeking-arms-rotation sometime in 2013. Meyer is looking like a 2015 impact SP if everything plays out perfectly. Randy Johnson? Really? Why not Loek Van Mil...

No, it's definitely too early to write them off entirely but the Royals should be a shining example of why burning down the franchise and rebuilding with prospects can be a mistake. The Royals did nothing wrong; they drafted smartly, traded smartly, and put together a stellar farm system... One of the best we've seen in baseball in two decades. And what has that gotten them? So far, a whole lot of nothing. If a team can draft that well and build a minor league system that strong and still accomplish nothing at the Major League level, why should the Twins follow suit? Attention all followers of the "Burn and Build" philosophy. Please read this post. Then read it again. And again. Commit it to memory. Remember it the next time you feel like typing something idiotic like "trade all veterans for prospects so we will be good in 2015"

Media claims are about as close to reality as Thyrloss's last scoop. We have a winner!

The minute they put in Webb over him I think Ponders career as a Viking is done, which I don't think is a bad thing, but I sorta understand the rationale behind it. At this point, I hope they realize how terrible Ponder is the rest of this year and take a serious run at Alex Smith. Then try to grab a decent QB in round two or three for the future. Landry Jones could be a nice sleeper candidate, dude has all the weapons. I think after today the writing is on the wall. Between the many missed open looks and the incredibly horrible INTs, I'm not sure how much more they can take. Look. I too understand the need to run him out there. They put all their eggs in his basket. He just is not improving. I was very surprised that Webb did not get the ball after the Packers 4Q FG. Ponder had been ineffective all day, a win here keeps them in the playoff hunt, make the move. Now, their playoff hopes are crippled, and it doesn't get any easier next week. I don't think they can afford to gamble on another rookie QB. I'm not a huge fan of Alex Smith, but I believe he will be the best option available this year. If not Smith, then who? If the Vikes can get an impact WR in the draft, along with some secondary help and a decent QB, they could be a legitimate threat next year.

Jim Bowden is at it again. In today's article, he writes about trade candidates for all 30 teams. For the Twins, he lists Justin Morneau. Even though the Twins have said they aren't trading him, and Willingham may be a more likely target. That being said, I can at least swallow that one. The rest of the article is the usual lazy work that he passes off. Among the 30 players listed are pitchers: Brian Matusz Luke Hochevar Jeremy Hellickson Trevor Bauer Julio Teheran Mike Leake Jake Westbrook Guess how many of these pitchers he has the Twins listed as a potential trade target? That's right... none. Not one. He does have the Twins listed as a potential trade target for two players: Pitcher Vance Worley (though now Span has been traded I don't know what they would want) 1B Mitch Moreland Really? We are on the lookout for another 1B? Yeesh. I know I should stop reading his articles, but it is like a car wreck... you just have to look.

Jim Bowden is at it again. In today's article, he writes about trade candidates for all 30 teams. For the Twins, he lists Justin Morneau. Even though the Twins have said they aren't trading him, and Willingham may be a more likely target. That being said, I can at least swallow that one. The rest of the article is the usual lazy work that he passes off. Among the 30 players listed are pitchers: Brian Matusz Luke Hochevar Jeremy Hellickson Trevor Bauer Julio Teheran Mike Leake Jake Westbrook Guess how many of these pitchers he has the Twins listed as a potential trade target? That's right... none. Not one. He does have the Twins listed as a potential trade target for two players: Pitcher Vance Worley (though now Span has been traded I don't know what they would want) 1B Mitch Moreland Really? We are on the lookout for another 1B? Yeesh. I know I should stop reading his articles, but it is like a car wreck... you just have to look.

Surprised that we didn't have a Joe Webb sighting...

Whoever is batting second is probably no currently on the team. Looking at the team is it is currently constructed, Carroll is the logical choice (being as Gardy won't move Mauer out of the 3 hole).

A lot of valid points here. Let me add my two cents: 1) I believe a lot of people, both GM's and fans, have underrated Span for a long time. While not exceptional in any one category, Span was above average in many. The ability to be decent in the leadoff spot is not just about numbers. It is about professional at-bats, table setting, and providing quality while leading the team in PA. Span does all of these things. His ability to play CF and low salary make him a wanted asset. 2) Span could easily have been one of the nucleus for the next wave. More prospects burn out than excel. While we hope that the Hicks, Rosario, Buxton, et. al. group comes up and produces, the reality is that only 2-3 of them will have any real impact in the majors. Span is a proven MLB commodity that should still have a number of quality years left. 3) I like the fact the Twins are looking more toward a hopeful 1-2, than another sure 4-5. I think it shows the Twins are willing to take a few risks, something they have been generally averse to in the past. I'm not sure this was exactly how I would have like to see it. I would have like to seen an additional MLB ready #4-5 starter, along with Meyer, to help the team today as well. 4) Why is everybody convinced Parmalee will be productive at a major league level? He has not exactly torn it up for the Twins in the past. I think odds are better Hicks will be out there before him. This smells of a typical TR move, reminiscent of Pierzynski or Knoblauch. Trading a vet for low minors guys, "knowing" they will help you in the future. While we won't have an answer for a few years, I tend to give TR the benefit of the doubt on these types of moves. Span is the type of player that Twins fan's tend to gravitate to. Hard working, better than average, no public dust ups, by all account a stand up guy. I for one will be sorry to see him go.

That is how the TD post board roles...

Thanks for providing a little perspective on these signings. A reminder that there is more going on then just signing starting pitching. I would like to say that this should cool peoples jets a bit, but it won't.

This is actually more pertinent then some of the other things I have seen. Morneau is constantly placed in the "he needs to be traded" category. This can help to give people more of an insight to his current worth. I think that there would be a team willing to overpay for him, at least financially, right now. A thin 1B market. I wouldn't be surprised to see at least a 3/$30 offer, if not more.

Target Field - One of the best places to see a game. Joe Mauer's resurgence - For quieting all of the doubters Josh Willingham exceeding expectations - I loved the sign at the time, confirmed my belief he was a bargain. For this site - the ultimate one-stop shop for all Twins news and discussions. Thanks guys.

I would be ok with this. Guys like this can surprise you. Minor league contracts are essentially zero risk for the team

Minor league contract, ST invite. He could be useful to have in the system, if he is willing.

Wow. A wide variety of responses and posts so far. Let me add to the mix. 1) It has been and always will be about the money for the Pohlads. They have never said otherwise. They treat the Twins like a business, worried more about fiscal returns than winning. Payroll is not the issue, as if they spend more money correctly, they will win more and bring in more money. I believe TR in this regard that he has the ability to go "over budget" with the right sign, but those rarely come along. A large, long term contract that blows up could destroy the Twins for years and years to come. 2) People forget that during the Johan years, the Twins were more or less a one-horse show. I think it was 2006 (could be wrong) where in games Johan started the Twins were 25 games over .500, and 1 game over with everybody else. It doesn't necessarily take a rock-star laden team to win, just a good team with some luck. 3) Spending big money on FA starters doesn't work very often. Occasionally true aces hit the market (Halladay), but that doesn't happen very often. True aces typically stay with their team until they are no longer an ace, or are traded to a team to be signed to a big contract (see Johan Santana). Considering the Twins track record, I don't expect a sign or trade. 4) True "rebuilding" is more risky then spending big money on FA. Ask the Pirates (who have essentially been rebuilding since Barry Bonds left) and the Royals (1985 anyone?). It took the Twins 10 years to get out of their last rebuilding mode, and it took a couple of large lucky breaks for that to happen. Everybody clamoring for the "blow up the ship" approach needs to understand the failure rate of prospects. 5) Question: At what point does it become "enough" money or "not enough" money to spend on payroll? I suppose one answer would be: It is enough money if they win the World Series. It is not enough if they don't. I don't believe spending more money will necessarily make a difference for this team. I also believe it is too early in the offseason to complain about what they have or have not done yet. We should have a better idea next February. We should probably cool our jets until then.

Yep.

Too rich for my blood.