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    Twins Roster Projection 2017: Version 1.0


    Seth Stohs

    It’s never too early to start thinking about what the Twins 2017 roster could look like. Based on players on the 40-man roster and in the minor leagues, it is possible to start putting that 25-man, Opening Day roster together. Of course, it is always subject to change. It’s pretty clear there are trade talks ongoing with several teams. An actual trade will obviously make the below change. There are also free agents that the team will still sign and bring to big league camp, whether they sign big league contracts or minor league deals. So, this is an ever-changing document and will be updated at various times through the off-season.

    Image courtesy of Denny Medley, USA Today

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    It was a fun exercise putting together this first draft, even if there aren’t as many changes as we would think. But it is a starting point. As you read this, consider where the Twins should focus their attention the rest of the season.

    For this, I am going to go with a 13-hitter, 12-pitcher roster as most teams like to begin the season that way.

    Catchers (2): Jason Castro, John Ryan Murphy

    Kurt Suzuki’s been the primary Twins catcher the last three years, but that will not be the case in 2017. The Twins new front office regime quickly targeted pitch-framing sensation Jason Castro and signed him to a three-year, $24.5 million contract. He may not hit, but the goal is for him to assist heavily in the improvement of the Twins pitching staff.

    John Ryan Murphy will be out of options which obviously gives him the advantage over Mitch Garver, who was just added to the Twins 40-man roster last month. Murphy is younger, but Garver is likely the better player. My reports tell me he was much better than Murphy offensively and defensively in 2016, so it’s likely he’ll see some time with the big league club in 2017.

    Infielders (6): Byungho Park, Joe Mauer, Brian Dozier, Miguel Sano, Jorge Polanco, Eduardo Escobar

    It’s pretty clear that it is very likely that this alignment will change significantly before spring training. Dozier remains quite likely be be traded, and if that happens Jorge Polanco likely moves to second base and a decision will need to be made at shortstop (Escobar or someone from outside).

    Joe Mauer will be the primary first baseman. Dozier will be the Twins second baseman until he’s not in the organization. Sano is going to get the opportunity to be the regular third baseman now that Trevor Plouffe is not in the organization. Polanco is out of options and will be playing somewhere because of his bat. Eduardo Escobar was offered arbitration, a wise decision with so many question marks around the infield and his ability to be an option at three of the positions.

    I believe that it is an either/or situation at DH between Kennys Vargas and Byungho Park. How much of Park’s rookie struggles were related to adjusting to a new league and how much of it was related to his hand and wrist injuries? He does have two option years remaining. The Twins petitioned for an extra option year for Vargas and it was granted, so he also can be sent to Rochester if deemed appropriate. Adam Brett Walker was DFAd and has since been claimed twice. Daniel Palka is now on the 40-man roster so he could potentially be brought up if a DH is needed. Also, Robbie Grossman’s best defensive position is DH.

    Outfielders (5): Eddie Rosario, Byron Buxton, Max Kepler, Robbie Grossman, Danny Santana

    Byron Buxton did so much in September to hand him the center field job. His defense made it likely even if he hadn’t hit. Max Kepler had a solid rookie season in right field, showing power and defense. Eddie Rosario struggled as a sophomore, enough to be sent to Rochester. He came back and was better, but a platoon option might be good. Robbie Grossman isn’t a good defender, at all, but he can mash left-handed pitchers, which gives him some value.

    And yes, Danny Santana is still - maybe inexplicably - on the 40-man roster, and he is out of options, so an MLB roster spot still is in his future. Obviously he’s a great athlete. He’s got very good speed and the tools that keep him intriguing. We’d all love to see him put up numbers anywhere near his 2013 rookie campaign, but playing time should be limited.

    Palka is an option in right field and DH. Zack Granite was also added to the 40-man roster and could be an option in center field if there is injury and he needs to be up for an extended period. Ben Paulsen is a capable replacement level player who will be in AAA unless needed.

    Starting Pitchers (5): Ervin Santana, Phil Hughes, Kyle Gibson, Hector Santiago, Trevor May

    Pitching appears to be Derek Falvey’s calling card, and the Twins currently have a long list of pitchers who could start the season in the team’s rotation. There are even more that have a decent shot of getting called up in 2017.

    Ervin Santana is easily the team’s top starter. He just turned 34 and has two seasons (and an option year) remaining on his contract. While he’s not an “Ace,” he has been a quality MLB starter for more than a decade. Somewhat surprising, his name has not been mentioned in off-season trade rumors. That could obviously change at any time and there are teams where it makes complete sense for him. But as long as he’s on the roster, he’s at the top of the rotation.

    The Twins offered arbitration to both Hector Santiago and Kyle Gibson. They’ll be around unless traded. Gibson was the team’s pitcher of the year in 2015, but an early season injury cost him six months. With health, he should take a good stride forward again in 2017. Santiago has been a solid starter the last few years. He was even an All-Star a couple years ago. He was not good for his first month with the Twins, but he can be a solid starter. In reality, both could be July trade chips if they pitch well.

    Trevor May might get a shot to start again, and for right now, I’ll include him here. I think the odds of May starting are not high, but hopefully he gets a real chance. Tyler Duffey should head to spring training with a shot at a rotation spot again. I’m going to go with May here, but Duffey has about the same likelihood. Others will get a shot too, including Jose Berrios and Adelberto Mejia. Berrios is an Opening Day option, but it’s 100% based on his command starting in spring training. Could any of the AA group get to the big leagues in 2017? It’s possible we see Stephen Gonsalves, Kohl Stewart, Felix Jorge, Tyler Jay or even Fernando Romero late in the season.

    Bullpen (7): Brandon Kintzler, Ryan Pressly, JT Chargois, Taylor Rogers, Ryan O’Rourke, Tyler Duffey, Justin Haley.

    This is another group that could change quickly. I mean, as of today, Brandon Kintzler would likely still be the team’s closer. He had 17 saves last year and did well, but we all know he isn’t the prototype for an MLB closer. It’s also possible that the righty is traded. Ryan Pressly, like Kintzler, was just offered arbitration. He could fit in to the closer role as well, but he’ll certainly be used in late innings again. JT Chargois, like Byron Buxton, seemed to relax and play much, much better in September than previously. He has a chance to be a closer, but I don’t think they would throw him right into the role.

    Taylor Rogers had a quality rookie season. He had a few flare-ups, but for the most part, he got the job done as well. I think that, as of today, the second lefty reliever role would be a strong competition between Ryan O’Rourke and Buddy Boshers. Depending upon additional Twins free agent signings, they could remain in that role, or they could be DFA candidates. Mason Melotakis is likely to get a shot sometime in 2017 as well. In his return from Tommy John, the Twins handled him carefully in 2016, and they will likely do so for the first half of 2017, but he’ll be up at some point. Also, Glen Perkins is going to be back in 2017. He had shoulder surgery midseason, but the thought is that he could be back and throwing in spring training. I suspect he will start the season on the disabled list, getting a few appearances in rehab games before coming up.

    I show Tyler Duffey pitching in long relief. With his inability to add a decent third pitch, he is more suited for the bullpen and could team with former Rice teammate JT Chargois in later innings too.

    If the Twins start the season with a 12-man pitching staff, we have one more spot for the opening of the season. Michael Tonkin could fill that role again. He made the team and stayed on it in large part due to the fact that he was out of options and had to stay with the team. He obviously remains out of options. I’m including Justin Haley as the final bullpen spot. After some of the annual Rule 5 maneuvering, the Twins ended up with the big right-hander who spent the first four seasons of his professional career with the Red Sox. As a Rule 5 pick, he would need to remain with the big league club all season or risk losing him back to the Red Sox (unless the teams work out a trade, which is possible too).

    At some point during the season, we will likely see more of the hard-throwing relievers drafted by the Twins since 2012. Melotakis is one of them. The others include the likes of Jake Reed, Trevor Hildenberger, Nick Burdi and John Curtiss.

    So there is Roster 2017 version 1.0. Share your thoughts, your areas where you believe that Falvey/Levine should focus.

    Aside from adding Jason Castro and letting Trevor Plouffe become a free agent, there have not been a lot of moves so far. Obviously it is still very, very early in the off-season yet. The next four weeks will be very busy for the Twins and all other teams.

    Before spring training, we’ll obviously have resolution on the Brian Dozier situation, one way or the other. That will obviously affect the Twins at both second base and shortstop, but depending on the return, it could also affect two of three other roster spots either now or in the next year or so. Pitching hasn’t really been addressed in any meaningful way yet, even in terms of minor league signings. There are still a lot of relievers available.

    I also don’t think the overall lack of moves is a bad thing at all.The Terry Ryan tenure ushered in a lot of very good, high-profile, high-ceiling types of prospects. Some of them have debuted in the last year or so. Others will arrive in 2017. Derek Falvey and Thad Levine have come in and made just a handful of changes to the front office. Likewise, they may choose to make just a handful of moves to the roster that will help complement the young, potential stars who are taking their lumps in the big leagues but could become very good.

    Signing some veterans to minor league or low-dollar deals does two things. First, if they’re any good, they can be traded in July as the Twins did with Fernando Abad a year ago.They could also pitch as well as Brandon Kintzler did, allowing the Twins do make a decision on whether to keep them around or deal them in the off-season. Third, if they’re not pitching great, their low-dollar contracts are easy to DFA, making room for talented prospects when they are deemed ready.

    What are your thoughts? What does your roster look like?

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    Yes, as of right now, this is pretty much the roster as I'd see it now. Of course, it's almost 100% sure to change with another FA or two and a probable trade or two forthcoming.

     

    I'd say DanSan has the weakest hold on a roster spot despite his athleticism. I so badly want him to develop in to a solid, useful and even exciting and sometimes dangerous role player. I just don't think it's going to happen any longer.

     

    Not sure Hughes will be ready to open the season. I'd really have a hard time holding Berrios out of the rotation, even with some ups and downs, just because of talent, potential, and the need to pitch.

     

    It better look nothing close to this come March :)

     

    This is a 90+ loss team with the same old people.  

     

    I can take a 90+ loss team full of youth and rebuilding, but not this.  If it looks remotely like this, it would add insult to injury.

     

    To play devil advocate: isn't this team better than 2015's playoff contender?

     

    I'd argue the rotation (while not good) is likely better than 2015, when Gibson, Pelfrey, Hughes, Milone, 1/2 season of Santana, May, Duffey and Nolasco started multiple games. I think we'd all rather see Berrios, Santiago, Mejia and maybe Gonsalves than Pelfrey, Milone and Nolasco. Again, not a strength but the rotation has a good chance to be better than 2015.

     

    The lineup (with or without Dozier) should be pretty good too. There's a lot of young talent that could take a step up - Buxton, Sano, Kepler, Rosario, Vargas, Polanco, JRM, Garver etc. They're going to strike-out a lot but there's a lot of pop and potential there. 2015 had a lot of guys with OPS+ a few points either side of 100 and then Miguel Sano carrying a team. This 2017 lineup is much more balanced and looks potentially dangerous 1-9, especially if Dozier doesn't go anywhere.

     

    The bullpen is a big question mark but most bullpens are. The Twins at least have a bunch of young power arms so what they lack in proven veterans they can hopefully make up in depth.

     

    Listen, I'm not betting my house on the Twins being a contender in 2017 (though I did drop $20 on them winning the World Series because, hey, why not). But I will say that this team on paper looks better than 2015 and if things break right could do so again. Very rarely do I think a baseball team comes into a season with no chance and the 2017 Twins don't fit that definition.

     

    It makes me cringe every time someone makes excuses for Gibson.  

     

    Kind of agree.

     

    I think Gibson's greatest defenders who see a return to glory and #2 potential are ignoring his subpar K rate and are getting way too excited about his groundball rate.

     

    That said, the people who want to just throw Gibson away are equally insane. He's a young cheap pitcher who doesn't fit the mold of an ace but still has the potential to be a very useful middle-of-the-rotation starter. Those cost money in free agency. He should get a chance to start this year and may prove a nice chip at the deadline or in the offseason (he's not changing a playoff race but there are always teams looking for someone to fill a rotation spot down the stretch). The Twins don't have enough young guys who deserve a spot in the MLB rotation that they can trade Gibson at a low point in value (Berrios is the only one who deserves a shot IMO, Mejia/May/Duffey can compete for that 5th spot and will be used throughout the year regardless).

    Just a note... in the article I said this is 'probably' how it would look IF the season started today. It wasn't a look at how it will look on Opening Day.

     

    Until there's a Dozier trade - and we all know that there is like a 90% chance there will be - and other moves, this is probably how it would look.

     

    But yeah, Dozier will get traded for at least one MLB ready pitcher and more, maybe an OF. 

     

    Those other moves will also obviously affect others.

     

    No, I don't think Danny Santana should be on the roster. No, I dont think Robbie Grossman is a great player, but I do think he'd be OK as a platoon player. Ideally, they make a move so both aren't in it.

     

    I would have Berrios in the starting rotation. That said, I also don't believe in putting guys in position to fail. I think he's ready, but it was clear last year that he still had work to do, and that wasn't better by the end of the year. I'd like to see him up, but i won't in any way be offended if they decide that it is best for his career to spend a couple more months in the minor leagues. Same thing with DeLeon, Mejia and others. 

     

    I don't think Kintzler will be the closer going into the season. I think he's a nice value as a 7th inning guy who can also get guys out in the 8th and 9th innings, but it's an area we can all be disappointed if on March 1st we still think he'll be the closer. 

     

    This article wasn't about some sort of finished product. It's about looking and seeing where the needs are short-term, what is coming down the pipeline in the next 12 months, and where some longer-term needs are.

     

    C - they're fine now.

    1B - plenty of decent options

    2B - right now they're fine. IF Dozier's traded, Polanco goes there.

    SS - Stick with Polanco, but if Dozier's traded, have to consider adding someone.

    3B - Sano needs to get a legit shot.

    LF - Rosario is fine, but a platoon candidate might be good.

    CF - They're set.

    RF - They're set.

    DH - plenty of options, but if they want to add Napoli, OK.

     

    SP - There are a lot of options right now, Berrios and Santana the ones that have potential to be very good. Gibson and Santiago could have comeback years. Mejia, Berrios, potentially DeLeon and someone like Stewart... May could be a starter, but he'd be better as a reliever, unless people think that his injuries are solely based on him being a reliever. He can be a decent #3 starter, maybe, or a potential closer.

     

    RP - Closer is an area where they could add someone... One year deals might be OK for a reliever or two, but there are several options very close.

     

    To read comments like This is anothe r100 loss team with that roster... well, first, that assumes zero improvement from the young guys (which would be very disappointing) and zero improvement from the guys who were injures last year. 

     

    It also just isn't the roster that will likely be there Opening Day, so it's not worth even going to that thought yet. 

    I would put the chance of a Dozier trade closer to 50 percent, not 90 percent. If the Dodgers truly offer both De Leon and Stewart (and a couple throw-ins) for Dozier, the Twins would probably make that deal. I just don't see the Dodgers doing that. They will offer one or the other (De Leon or Stewart) but not both. I believe the Twins want two MLB-close starting pitchers for Dozier. I'm just not convinced the Dodgers (or any other teams) will offer two MLB-ready starters for Dozier.

     

    As a result, Seth, your interim analysis is valuable. It's a good exercise, because if the Twins do not trade Dozier, that's what we're left with, unless someone else is traded or signed.

     

    And you said at the start this is not expected to be the Twins' April 25-man roster.

     

    Just a note... in the article I said this is 'probably' how it would look IF the season started today. It wasn't a look at how it will look on Opening Day.

     

    Until there's a Dozier trade - and we all know that there is like a 90% chance there will be - and other moves, this is probably how it would look.

     

    But yeah, Dozier will get traded for at least one MLB ready pitcher and more, maybe an OF. 

     

    Those other moves will also obviously affect others.

     

    No, I don't think Danny Santana should be on the roster. No, I dont think Robbie Grossman is a great player, but I do think he'd be OK as a platoon player. Ideally, they make a move so both aren't in it.

     

    I would have Berrios in the starting rotation. That said, I also don't believe in putting guys in position to fail. I think he's ready, but it was clear last year that he still had work to do, and that wasn't better by the end of the year. I'd like to see him up, but i won't in any way be offended if they decide that it is best for his career to spend a couple more months in the minor leagues. Same thing with DeLeon, Mejia and others. 

     

    I don't think Kintzler will be the closer going into the season. I think he's a nice value as a 7th inning guy who can also get guys out in the 8th and 9th innings, but it's an area we can all be disappointed if on March 1st we still think he'll be the closer. 

     

    This article wasn't about some sort of finished product. It's about looking and seeing where the needs are short-term, what is coming down the pipeline in the next 12 months, and where some longer-term needs are.

     

    C - they're fine now.

    1B - plenty of decent options

    2B - right now they're fine. IF Dozier's traded, Polanco goes there.

    SS - Stick with Polanco, but if Dozier's traded, have to consider adding someone.

    3B - Sano needs to get a legit shot.

    LF - Rosario is fine, but a platoon candidate might be good.

    CF - They're set.

    RF - They're set.

    DH - plenty of options, but if they want to add Napoli, OK.

     

    SP - There are a lot of options right now, Berrios and Santana the ones that have potential to be very good. Gibson and Santiago could have comeback years. Mejia, Berrios, potentially DeLeon and someone like Stewart... May could be a starter, but he'd be better as a reliever, unless people think that his injuries are solely based on him being a reliever. He can be a decent #3 starter, maybe, or a potential closer.

     

    RP - Closer is an area where they could add someone... One year deals might be OK for a reliever or two, but there are several options very close.

     

    To read comments like This is anothe r100 loss team with that roster... well, first, that assumes zero improvement from the young guys (which would be very disappointing) and zero improvement from the guys who were injures last year. 

     

    It also just isn't the roster that will likely be there Opening Day, so it's not worth even going to that thought yet. 

    Nailed it!!

     

    Absolutely no reason financially, and nobody being blocked, for this team to add an infielder, a quality 4th OF, and a bounce back (possibly flip-able) closer option to help secure what games we have a chance to win while auditioning various young RP like Chargois.

     

    Even then, I could still see a bench spot for Grossman as a 5th OF, solid PH/DH bat unless we keep 3 1B/DH options, which is possible.

     

    It makes me cringe every time someone makes excuses for Gibson.  

    It also makes me cringe when I see all the love for May.  His upside is a 4.5 ERA and a #4 starter on a good team.  Moving him to the starting rotation...back to the bullpen......   He should be thankful he has no options to be sent to AAA.

    It also makes me cringe when I see all the love for May. His upside is a 4.5 ERA and a #4 starter on a good team. Moving him to the starting rotation...back to the bullpen...... He should be thankful he has no options to be sent to AAA.

    His career FIP is 3.71. I don't think you know what the word upside means.

     

    His career FIP is 3.71. I don't think you know what the word upside means.

    and his FIP as a starter in 2015 was 3.35.  AT the time he was demoted, easily the best of all the starters.  He was on his way to being a possible 4 WAR starting pitcher when he was demoted.  In only 16 starts he got 1.8.

    Edited by jimmer

     

    So last year's AAA dominance didn't mean anything, but a couple spring training starts will? I don't agree with that as how to make decisions. Last year's minor league dominance meant nothing, but this year it would?

     

    Frank Viola was awful at first. He learned by actually being in the majors and facing MLB hitters. 

    Damn, Al Kaline learned by being in the majors at age 18. Let us put all of the 18 year olds in the majors because Al Kaline was successful so therefore every prospect should be

     

    His career FIP is 3.71. I don't think you know what the word upside means.

    When does fip stabilize for a pitcher?  May has about 200 innings in the major league.  What fip measures happens on  between 25 and 30% of the batters faced.  You are basing an opinion of upside on fip that may or may not be relevant for May due to small sample size

    Keep in mind that as a starter May had an xfip and Sierra of neat 4.  So is Mays upside that of a league average pitcher a positive?

    Edited by The Wise One

     

    When does fip stabilize for a pitcher?  May has about 200 innings in the major league.  What fip measures happens on  between 25 and 30% of the batters faced.  You are basing an opinion of upside on fip that may or may not be relevant for May due to small sample size

    Keep in mind that as a starter May had an xfip and Sierra of neat 4.  So is Mays upside that of a league average pitcher a positive?

    I agree that using FIP as a way of measuring potential is a mistake. It's really only useful for explaining aberrations in a pitchers career.

    Honestly I'd say the upside of a league average starter is good for May. How many of the Twins pitchers were league average last year? He will not be the ace of the next contending team, but you need guys who can eat innings in a 162 game schedule. Better to give him the spot than guys who will not even be  on the next contending team.

    When does fip stabilize for a pitcher? May has about 200 innings in the major league. What fip measures happens on between 25 and 30% of the batters faced. You are basing an opinion of upside on fip that may or may not be relevant for May due to small sample size

    Keep in mind that as a starter May had an xfip and Sierra of neat 4. So is Mays upside that of a league average pitcher a positive?

    Yes, if May can become a league average starter that is huge. Do you know how much league average starters cost in FA?

    Right now we only have 1 starter that is league average or better.

     

     

    Nolasco's career FIP is 3.85,not sure that is a sign of upside

    Two things.

    Nolasco is on the downside of his career, and has enough innings to say the ERA is what it is. May is in his prime and doesn't have enough innings to use ERA as a predictor.

     

    Nolasco was a league average starter before he came here. I know that is hard to imagine, given how awful he was here. If May can be pre Twins Nolasco that has huge value because he's still making the league minimum.

    People always talk about under-performing or out-performing his FIP.  One day, we're going to stop thinking FIP needs to match up with ERA eventually as if ERA is the superior stat all along.  Considering ERA is heavily influenced by a team's defense and scorers judgment, it's never going to be the stat that truly judges how a pitcher did.

    Edited by jimmer

     

    People always talk about under-performing or out-performing his FIP.  One day, we're going to stop thinking FIP needs to match up with ERA eventually as if ERA is the superior stat all along.  Considering ERA is heavily influenced by a team's defense and scorers judgment, it's never going to be the stat that truly judges how a pitcher did.

     

    No stat truly or perfectly judges how a pitcher did. Even fip is just a number gleaned from three inputs. Important inputs to be sure, but not the be all end all either.

     

    I always think of era as being the quickest measure of what happened in the most basic currency (outs and runs), and fip being the quick and dirty measure of what could have happened and may happen in the future based on underlying talent of the pitcher.

     

    No stat truly or perfectly judges how a pitcher did. Even fip is just a number gleaned from three inputs. Important inputs to be sure, but not the be all end all either.

     

    I always think of era as being the quickest measure of what happened in the most basic currency (outs and runs), and fip being the quick and dirty measure of what could have happened and may happen in the future based on underlying talent of the pitcher.

    except that when doing that, many just figure ERA tells us what the pitcher did, and they judge him on that.

    except that when doing that, many just figure ERA tells us what the pitcher did, and they judge him on that.

    True, but fip fluctuates quite a bit year by year for pitchers too. It might be slightly more predictive and stable than era, but doesn't really tell us a ton either of what to expect the next season.

     

    True, but fip fluctuates quite a bit year by year for pitchers too. It might be slightly more predictive and stable than era, but doesn't really tell us a ton either of what to expect the next season.

    No, you're right. the more predictive stat would be xFIP as opposed to ERA (the worst predictor of future ERA) and FIP.

     

    That is, of course, if what you're trying to do is predict future ERA, for whatever reason.  Only SIERA has a better correlation to future ERA.

    Edited by jimmer

    No, you're right. the more predictive stat would be xFIP as opposed to ERA (the worst predictor of future ERA) and FIP (that is, of course, if what you're trying to do is predict future ERA, for whatever reason). Only SIERRA is better.

    I thought the new conventional wisdom was that the x of xfip was pretty meaningless.

     

    I don't have much opinion on siera, haven't engaged it as much.

     

    I thought the new conventional wisdom was that the x of xfip was pretty meaningless.

    I don't have much opinion on siera, haven't engaged it as much.

    Yeah, I don't know why it would be considered meaningless and I haven't heard/read that, but I have no doubt some have said/thought that.  

     

    But this probably should stop being a discussion about non-traditional stats.

    Edited by jimmer

     

    I agree that using FIP as a way of measuring potential is a mistake. It's really only useful for explaining aberrations in a pitchers career.

    Honestly I'd say the upside of a league average starter is good for May. How many of the Twins pitchers were league average last year? He will not be the ace of the next contending team, but you need guys who can eat innings in a 162 game schedule. Better to give him the spot than guys who will not even be  on the next contending team.

    Projecting pitchers. Rick Porcello always had fairly average k/9.  The other 70% doomed him to looking mediocre.  Like a catcher who keeps strikes being called strikes, defense matters. A step up to a good defense did wonders for his results. That is the aspect a team can look at and account for that a estimator can't

    Edited by The Wise One



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