Twins 5, White Sox 1: Zebby Matthews Stops the Bleeding, Twins Avoid Sweep

18 hours ago, HarmonK03 said:

Prielipp and Matthews have earned the right to be in the rotation next year until someone shows they are better.  Kremer or Ober if they are on the roster should be pitching out of the bullpen.  Just because we traded for Kremer, he should not be handed a spot.

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but this requires a clear No Free Jobs, 2027 Spots Are Earned in 2027 Not 2026.  

If Kremer or Ober or Connor or Zeb are going good or bad next April then that dictates the spots. The caution about SWR is relevant here (but maybe not where it appeared in the article.)  Youngsters ebb and flow until they find their legs, and Kremer is the only one of that crew that's been a steady presence over years, but his brutal start to 2026 shows what "earned" spots are worth after the winter break.

3 minutes ago, Cris E said:

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but this requires a clear No Free Jobs, 2027 Spots Are Earned in 2027 Not 2026.  

If Kremer or Ober or Connor or Zeb are going good or bad next April then that dictates the spots. The caution about SWR is relevant here (but maybe not where it appeared in the article.)  Youngsters ebb and flow until they find their legs, and Kremer is the only one of that crew that's been a steady presence over years, but his brutal start to 2026 shows what "earned" spots are worth after the winter break.

I will clarify because you are correct, they should start spring training as starters and others have to outpitch them.  This is more in a reaction to others who keep saying Abel should be in the rotation.  So far in a very small sample size he has had only a couple of good starts.  Whereas Matthews and Preliepp have performed well this year and Abel should have to outperform to get a spot.

17 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

Won't the Twins also need starting pitching? I can see Ober sneaking in quite a few starts as a #5 or #6 next year.

Unless a salary floor of some sort suddenly calls for $170m+ in payroll there's no way the Twins are stashing Ober as a #6 in St Paul at $7-8m.  Even if they have to go to $170m it's still not happening. 

And frankly unless we suffer another spring training catastrophe like Lopez he's not beating out Ryan and Lopez and Bradley and Mathews and Prielipp and Kremer and Abel and whoever else emerges this winter.  Who knows, Festa could reanimate and push him down even further.

Ober is probably worth more to the Twins than anyone, but I'd argue he's not worth that "market value" right now. The trick is getting him to take a Jamie Moyer pay rate from us (at maybe $4.5m) vs letting the open market dictate to him what they think he's worth (which could be as a non-roster invitee.)

2 hours ago, Old Twins Hat said:

Second row Twins dugout notes:

Weird pre-game.  Probably 40 cops up each line from home plate in full-dress holding, wait for it, baseball bats.  Some of them like truncheons.  After the ICE fiasco, it was not a great look, even if they were only DUI all-stars being recognized for public service.  Of course, given the number of excessive drinkers at Twins' games...  maybe an on-point reminder.

Jenkins, when he comes in at the half-inning waits on the field for every Twins' player to get to the dugout, high-fives them, then goes into the dugout last.  Class kid, good teammate, and for a 21 year-old, he a man.  If ever he hits the wall at pace, look out.

Keaschall's home run, from where I sat, he turned on it and you could tell there was a catapult effect when the bat came through the ball, it stayed on the bat a half-beat then was launched into the bullpen with ease.  Expect more power going forward. 

Chicago had a lot of hard hit balls converted to outs, line drives, long flies, two-hoppers.  We got lucky; they didn't.

The extended netting to protect fans, I don't like it and it makes it hard to track the hit balls.  Up on the concourse after the eighth inning, EMTs were escorting a woman on a gurney to medical services, she was prone and holding her face with one hand where it looked like a ball had impacted high on her cheekbone.  Always be alert at the stadium, even when far from home plate.

 

I do like to come to this site to get away from politics, it's probably best to make that point from the second paragraph on another non sports site.

17 hours ago, MeleMouth said:

OK, look at Zebby's results for the season. The Twins have the 23rd ranked pitching staff in the league. Of 17 pitchers on the Twins with at least 20 IPs, Zebby's FIP is 15th on the Twins, with only Paredes and SWR below him. League-wide, of 108 pitchers with more than 100 IP, he's 95th in FIP. Again, I like Zebby, but this hasn't been a stellar year for him.

Boy, you really defend Royce, despite the fact that his wRC+ just since his return would tie him for 18th among qualifying 1B on a full-year basis. To compare him to Clemens, between Aug 13-29, Royce's OPS is .392, while Clemens, whom you said is "ice cold," has an .853 OPS. It seems reasonable that this .450+ OPS advantage for Clemens over the last two weeks could be a factor in batting order today. Yes, since Royce came back, his OPS is a decent .763, versus a slightly lower .743 for Clemens, but much of the "S" in Royce's OPS came in June. You say that since Royce came back he's been "one of our top hitters," but his OPS is 5th out of 11 players with more than 100 PAs, which is decent, but being in the middle is not really being "one of our top hitters."

Also, we shouldn't act as if Royce's awful start to the season didn't occur and shouldn't be taken into account when deciding batting order, particularly when his hitting is awful once again and he has a history of struggling to turn around slumps. Not to defend Clemens too much, but Royce's stats are mostly comparable to the "ice cold" Clemens and Clemens actually exceeds Lewis in several areas. Finally and most importantly, the target for Royce's offense is supposed to be much higher than Kody Clemens, whom, we must also recognize, contributes much more on defense.

What a weird comment. Only look at Zebby's season in the aggregate, but then immediately jump to cherry picking Royce's slumps and hot steaks and comparing them to random chunks of Clemens' season. 

Here's a notion: most guys have hot and cold streaks. Some are pretty mild and others careen from glacial to volcanic across any few weeks. It's disingenuous to credit Clemons spot in the lineup this weekend to his hot streak and forget that he's piled up over 90 AB of .627 OPS so far in August (vs .708 for Lewis, which is a little better, but still below average.) Both are struggling this month, and the big difference is that Clemons was much better for more of the first four months. 

My take is that Clemons is probably a steadier hand, but as a 30 year old we've seen his ceiling and it's meh. Lewis is younger and we've gotten glimpses of his hot side, but it comes with a heaping dose of "Here we go again." 

In my world Clemons sits and fills in twice a week on a better infield, and we trade Lewis to someone who believes in moonbeams and superstars, and then we find a real hitter for 1B. There's a 2% chance it's Subato, but I don't think so. Maybe you can teach it to Gabby G or Mendez, but neither are the big stick we need.   

Just now, Cris E said:

What a weird comment. Only look at Zebby's season in the aggregate, but then immediately jump to cherry picking Royce's slumps and hot steaks and comparing them to random chunks of Clemens' season. 

Here's a notion: most guys have hot and cold streaks. Some are pretty mild and others careen from glacial to volcanic across any few weeks. It's disingenuous to credit Clemons spot in the lineup this weekend to his hot streak and forget that he's piled up over 90 AB of .627 OPS so far in August (vs .708 for Lewis, which is a little better, but still below average.) Both are struggling this month, and the big difference is that Clemons was much better for more of the first four months. 

My take is that Clemons is probably a steadier hand, but as a 30 year old we've seen his ceiling and it's meh. Lewis is younger and we've gotten glimpses of his hot side, but it comes with a heaping dose of "Here we go again." 

In my world Clemons sits and fills in twice a week on a better infield, and we trade Lewis to someone who believes in moonbeams and superstars, and then we find a real hitter for 1B. There's a 2% chance it's Subato, but I don't think so. Maybe you can teach it to Gabby G or Mendez, but neither are the big stick we need.   

You need to look at the earlier part of this exchange, where I was criticized for not looking at Zebby's season in the aggregate and for not paying attention to Royce's warm streaks. The criticism also included a "Royce is better than Clemens" theme. Now, you are criticizing me for responding to those criticisms. You should especially look at the earlier exchanges before calling a comment "weird," which, for the sake of site quality, is a type of personal comment I would encourage commenters never to do in any situation.

As far as trading Royce, I'm guessing the Rays are hoping for exactly that, so they can turn him into a version of Caminero, who will probably be less successful than Caminero but more successful than 2026 Royce.

Nobody thinks Clemens is the centerpiece of a championship club, but he's been a surprising useful 2 WAR player this year, while actually having relatively bad luck.

Sabato? No, no way. I think Lewis is OK, but not great like others do, but in any event Lewis is a much much much better hitter than Sabato and probably a much better fielder, also. It would be a huge mistake to save maybe $4 million to replace Lewis with Sabato. Similarly, neither Gabby nor Mendez have shown anything in AAA this year that suggests they would anywhere as good as Royce, with Mendez having the additional problem of continuing the roster's left-handed tilt.

1 hour ago, HarmonK03 said:

I do like to come to this site to get away from politics, it's probably best to make that point from the second paragraph on another non sports site.

Not sure the opener was about politics as much as American history.  Cops and corporate stiffs with baseball bats have a long history in resolving disputes, not so much political ones as social, particularly between strikers and management, but occasionally with street protests as well.  Cops with baseball bats is something I have never seen at a baseball stadium in any context, and I thought it was an interesting way to open the day's festivities.  Wish you could have seen it.

4 minutes ago, Old Twins Hat said:

Not sure the opener was about politics as much as American history.  Cops and corporate stiffs with baseball bats have a long history in resolving disputes, not so much political ones as social, particularly between strikers and management, but occasionally with street protests as well.  Cops with baseball bats is something I have never seen at a baseball stadium in any context, and I thought it was an interesting way to open the day's festivities.  Wish you could have seen it.

You mentioned a little more than that and again I don't feel this is the site for it.

6 hours ago, stringer bell said:

 I think his best position is third base. Maybe third is also best for Culpepper, but give me the guy with superior range to play second base and that would be Culpepper. 

Personally,  I'd rather have the fast twitch athlete at 3B. The ball comes a lot faster down 3B way and reflexes and quickness are key. Not to mention Culpepper's big arm. Since 2B is right side, range is less critical. Second basemen can position deeper because of the short throw. 

19 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

I taught for St Cloud - Northland College - Hamline and ran the Audubon Center.  Now I am a guest lecturer on a cruise line.  

As you probably know as well - Pike made an expedition to discover the source of the Mississippi during the Lewis and Clark expedition and decided the source was Leech Lake. 

Great...too bad they shut Northland down. It was a one-of-a-kind eco-college one might say. I still love to head up to Ashland and visit Chequamegon Books.

Yeah that was left to Henry Schoolcraft some years later who was bold enough to claim that a little puddle was the origin of a great river. In order to make this a legitimate TD post allow me to add: Go Twins! 

8 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

Who's on second?

No, he's on first.

But seriously, I would put Lee there. He always seemed most like a second baseman to me.

19 hours ago, HarmonK03 said:

I do like to come to this site to get away from politics, it's probably best to make that point from the second paragraph on another non sports site.

I agree with you.  But remember this is Minneapolis St. Paul, which is the headquarters for the DSA.  They only like law enforcement when they can use it to their benefit.

Re: Lee or Culpepper at 3B, in the SSS so far, Culpepper has not shown a sure glove at SS, fighting the ball.  That is not going to get better at 3B.

He needs to get better and more confident as a fielder.  Future could be SS, 2B or 3B quite frankly.

Lee doesn't have his arm velo, but seems pretty nimble and does not seem to fight the ball as much.