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    Pete Rose Sinned Against Baseball. And That's Enough.

    On the field, Pete Rose was everything a ballplayer should be. He was also the exact thing no ballplayer should be, on the field: compromised.

    Greggory Masterson
    Image courtesy of © Albert Cesare/The Enquirer / USA TODAY NETWORK via Imagn Images

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    Pete Rose should not be in the Hall of Fame. He should not be celebrated. As a player and a manager, he committed a cardinal sin against Baseball. He broke the game's Golden Rule. It's obvious, but lately, it seems to have become almost a secondary talking point. We should fix that.

    I’m not here to talk about Rose’s off-field foibles. Between you, me, and the wall, I fall more on the side of ignoring those things in reference to Hall of Fame candidacy. What Rose did as a player and as a manager (i.e., on-field), however, requires Baseball to permanently excise him. It shouldn't be any more complicated than that—and the stain of his sins hasn't faded with time.

    I’m not breaking new ground here. I don’t have any secret insight. But I want to talk about gambling—the one thing Baseball has ever put its foot down on.

    When people talk about Rose’s great sin against Baseball, it’s often framed around his moral character. We borrow the Golden Rule label from world religion and philosophy as a euphemism for gambling on baseball. We use words like “the integrity of the game.” But the “integrity of the game” isn’t some moral standard; it’s a pragmatic one. When we say integrity, it’s not about doing the right thing; it’s using the original definition—the structural foundation of the sport.

    The day that gambling seeps onto the field of play is the day Baseball dies. This isn’t about right and wrong. It’s about the game continuing to exist.

    Intrinsic to our love of baseball—and sports in general—is a basic assumption: anything can happen. Two groups square off in a battle of wits, talent, effort, strength, and guile. May the best man win. Any given Sunday. Whatever the coach in Miracle said. And we have the pleasure to watch it play out.

    That’s why we buy tickets. It’s why we pay for an entire yearlong cable package subscription just to watch our hometown nine play all summer. We get to watch the best athletes in the world do what they’ve trained for decades to perfect—and we don’t know how it will end. It’s sweet. It's heartwarming, even, to watch our favorite boys win. And it’s agonizing—heart-wrenching even—to watch them lose. Much of that emotion is learning our favorite team’s fate in real time. We ride the roller coaster along with them. They go up, and so do we. They plummet down, and so do we.

    But what if it was all preordained? What if there were no feats of strength or clever tricks or mental games? We would, instead, be watching WWE, or a low-budget movie.

    Now, there’s nothing entirely wrong with WWE or cheap films as a form of entertainment, but that’s not baseball. It’s not Baseball.

    Don’t get me wrong; one single person gambling on the games that they play or manage, whether they’re only betting on their team to win or not, isn’t enough to transform MLB into professional wrestling. But the true structure isn’t the only thing that matters, either.

    As soon as the people stop believing that the game in front of them is real, it’s as good as dead. That’s what Baseball is fighting against. It's why the game needs to take these sins seriously. It doesn’t just make you feel icky; it threatens the institution.

    Those who threaten that game need to be banished. They’re damned. There’s no purgatory for those who break the one rule. It’s nothing personal; just business. You cannot be associated with the sport after doing something that threatens to ruin it. It does not matter how many hits you had or how hard you hustled or how much children loved you. You voluntarily chose to separate yourself from Baseball. You committed a mortal sin.

    And yes, that sin against Baseball is far worse than other popular sins against Baseball. Steroids don’t hold a candle to the dangers associated with gambling. The winners being the baseball players who take the most drugs is a time-honored tradition, and the games are still decided on who is the best, strongest, and most focused. That’s far preferable to the winners being the players the gamblers choose to win that day. Wanting to win so badly that you cut corners is a crime; being willing to trade the drive to win for profit or the satiation of some darker urge is a worse one.

    The league aligning itself with gambling services as advertisers is also a separate topic, my own thoughts on which aren’t relevant here, but it’s brought up as a strawman in this discussion so we might as well address it. Put simply, the league encouraging fans to gamble has no bearing on the game on the field. If there’s ever evidence that the league is influencing games for any gambling-associated purpose, I want all involved parties burned at the stake, as well. But until that happens, MLB partnering with those services is irrelevant.

    There is no coming back from what Rose did as a player and as a coach. Gambling on the game (specifically) does not make him a bad person. But it does make him a sinner against the sacred game. Baseball, with a capital B, cannot afford to welcome Rose back into the fold. That’s why it’s Baseball’s Golden Rule. Not petty morality, but an existential guard against ruin. Rose's faults of character away from the park are between him and eternity, now. His gambling is very much between him and the game—and it needs to stay there, holding the two separate.

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    19 hours ago, bean5302 said:

    I don't know Pete Rose, and he certainly never wronged me in any way. His prime was long over before I was born. He's dead. He can take no pleasure in any respite from hate, yet comment after comment drips with hatred and vitriol, eager to demonstrate the virtue of the commentor. Perhaps we should take his rotting corpse and hang it from a tow truck to haul it across the country from state fair to state fair. Sell tickets to commentors for $2 to take a swing and beat it with a baseball bat so as to demonstrate refined moral superiority while proving their virtue?

    When it comes to Pete Rose and his relationship to baseball, his contributions are unquestionable. He's the all time leader in hits, RoY, MVP, and has accumulated 80 career WAR while being one of the most popular players of all time, representing the game and drawing in fans an insane 17 times as an All Star.

    His behavior also critically damaged baseball. It was a series of massive sucker punches to fans, and he also risked a potentially catastrophic impact if fans believe play was all showmanship and entertainment rather than a competitive sport. As far as the non-baseball related claims against him, they're paper thin, but no type of claim is more powerful so it's not surprising it's been so intently weaponized.

    For whatever reason, Americans have both been taught and embraced the concept of persecution or acceptance. If a person isn't willing to actively persecute somebody they don't know, and demonstrate outrage while demanding endless vengeance for behavior which did not personally injure them in any way, it means the person is actively endorsing the harmful behavior, and therefore must also be persecuted. 

    Of course, it's all intensely hypocritical, but it makes an American feel good to judge themselves to have superior value in society while seeking an active minority group to persecute. We're not allowed to persecute based on skin color or sex or gender or body shape or hair color or smoking status anymore. Who can we find? Somebody, certainly, and it's our duty to destroy those people to demonstrate moral superiority. 

    It saddens me a little to see people so bent out of shape over somebody they don't know who did nothing to them, hasn't been relevant in 40 years, and is now dead (or somebody who hasn't played in 100 years for that matter). Rose paid and paid again for his actions. I can't comment as to whether or not he regretted his actions, but I suspect being widely hated after having been so beloved and honored was probably a truly never ending horrible experience.

    I don't have a vote, and I'm not sure how I would vote. I'm quite positive I won't lose any sleep over it.

    The dripping condescension throughout this pearl-clutching post is very funny, and quite obviously hypocritical. 

    On 5/16/2025 at 2:12 PM, cmoss84 said:

    This is a slippery slope many people like to be very picky/choosey on. You could mention quite a few individuals from a variety of sports, and their HOFs, and come to the same conclusion. Also, have you done research on every player in baseball's HOF? Did anyone else have character concerns or a history of crime? Have some athletes gotten away with worse over the last 150 years? Professional athletes need to be looked at as such when this process occurs every year. I battle the same concept with Michael Jackson. I have to only listen to his music as a musical prodigy. If you are going to judge everyone, then judge EVERYONE. 

    We go down this path, anybody here want to discuss Kirby Puckett?

    20 minutes ago, VivaBomboRivera! said:

    We extend forgiveness to those who admit their transgressions, apologize and make amends. Pete Rose did none of those things.

    You must've missed Rose's letter to Manfred, above, in which he admitted wrongdoing and apologized.  Rose was punished with a lifetime ban.  He's dead, served his punishment.  He has no more amends he can make....  Rose's achievements merit HoF consideration, albeit with an asterisk if one chooses.  But, let those without sin continue to cast stones.... 

    1 hour ago, Minderbinder said:

    You must've missed Rose's letter to Manfred, above, in which he admitted wrongdoing and apologized.  Rose was punished with a lifetime ban.  He's dead, served his punishment.  He has no more amends he can make....  Rose's achievements merit HoF consideration, albeit with an asterisk if one chooses.  But, let those without sin continue to cast stones.... 

    This website is not church and MLB is not God. Please refrain from conflating the two. We are talking about rules in MLB that were broken and the consequences of those actions. Rose knew the rules and broke them anyway as both a player and manager. His ‘apologies’ were insincere and self-serving. Good for you for thinking they were otherwise, but I don’t think he truly meant it. Not to mention other moments in his life that were reprehensible and far worse. Forgiveness doesn’t mean the rules no longer apply for someone you feel is contrite. Forgiveness is God’s to give, not MLB’s.

    13 hours ago, Minderbinder said:

    Rose was punished with a lifetime ban.

    He was not.

    MLB publishes its rules of conduct. You can read them here.  Nowhere in the rules is found the word "lifetime" in regard to a ban or anything else.  The phrase you are thinking of, stated in a few places throughout Rule 21 regarding Misconduct, is "shall be declared permanently ineligible."  It is pointless to play semantic games about Rose or Jackson's life being over; that is nowhere stated as a criterion.

    On 5/18/2025 at 10:37 PM, ashbury said:

    Rule 21 regarding Misconduct, is "shall be declared permanently ineligible."  It is pointless to play semantic games ...

    Pointless, indeed.  The mind reels trying to see daylight between "permanently ineligible" and "lifetime ban."

    Minder, some, maybe you, seem to believe that Rose was given a lifetime ban meaning, to some, maybe you, that once Rose's life was over the ban was also over. Ash has clearly indicated that "lifetime" bans are not provided in MLB's rules of conduct--rather "permanent ineligibility" is the term of choice. The state of permanence, unlike life itself, remains unchanged indefinitely.   

    9 hours ago, knothole61 said:

    Minder, some, maybe you, seem to believe that Rose was given a lifetime ban meaning, to some, maybe you, that once Rose's life was over the ban was also over. Ash has clearly indicated that "lifetime" bans are not provided in MLB's rules of conduct--rather "permanent ineligibility" is the term of choice. The state of permanence, unlike life itself, remains unchanged indefinitely.   

    Wrong.  Whether one refers to the media's shorthand "lifetime ban" or "permanent ineligibility," the result is exactly the same.  

    My point is that Rose paid the ultimate price, but admitted wrong, and asked for forgiveness and reinstatement.  He can do no more at this point.  In my view, it's time to consider Rose for the HoF, albeit with a footnote.  He (and Jackson) paid a heavy price for a serious offense.  

    I believe the veterans group governs Rose's HoF status at this point.  It will be interesting to see how they proceed, perhaps taking time to reflect on their own conduct before passing on Rose and Jackson.

    I think the whole concept of contrition and apologies is baloney. Who knows if they are even sincere?  In my view you committed the act so now you live with the consequences and all the other stuff is unimportant. You don’t get to hit the undo button because you say something people want to hear. As far as the references to religion in this thread, it means nothing to me and I’m guessing many others. No place for it on this site. 




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