Twins Make Dubious History with Strikeout Record

[Woof Bronzer]

17 hours ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

Certainly no hits result from strikeouts, but not all contact is the type to lead to more than an out.  The Twins had an outfielder that spent about 2 1/2 years doing that before he rediscovered himself recently.  I would also argue that a double play is much worse than a strikeout. 

The Twins have 10x as many hits as GIDPs.  And double plays are the result of a ball in play, not the result of a plate appearance.  If hitters had total control over what happened when they put the ball in play they'd choose to hit home runs every time.

Again, 30% of all balls in play become hits.  0% of strikeouts become hits.  

 

17 hours ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

I'm not saying that strikeouts are a desirable outcome.  However, they aren't necessarily indicative of disaster either.  You only keep score with runs.  

But....you can't score runs if you strikeout though.

I truly do not understand this argument.  One can make the argument that for certain hitters, high Ks are ok because of what that hitter does when he doesn't K.  I'm with you there!  One cannot make the argument that a strikeout is not the worse available outcome of a plate appearance.  It's just a fact.  

[Rod Carews Birthday]

4 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

But....you can't score runs if you strikeout though.

I truly do not understand this argument.  One can make the argument that for certain hitters, high Ks are ok because of what that hitter does when he doesn't K.  I'm with you there!  One cannot make the argument that a strikeout is not the worse available outcome of a plate appearance.  It's just a fact.  

But the fact is that the Twins are indeed scoring runs, while striking out a very high rate.  Your argument seems to be that the offense can't be any good because they strike out.  My argument is that if the mix of strikeouts/runs works, it still works even if you don't find it eloquent.  Would it be better if we struck out less?  All other things the same, of course.  But, would everything else remain the same?  Do we hit as many home runs without the strikeouts?  Do we score as many runs without the home runs? Strikeouts are not a stand alone predictive statistic any more than stolen bases or walks.  If we score enough runs, we win.  If we do it while striking out "too much", so be it.  I'll take the win. 

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Correct, a home run is one of the many available outcomes of putting a ball in play. 

A home run over the fence is NOT a ball in play.

[DJL44]

42 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

One can make the argument that for certain hitters, high Ks are ok because of what that hitter does when he doesn't K. 

You mean the Twins team hitting strategy is okay?

[Woof Bronzer]

4 hours ago, DJL44 said:

You mean the Twins team hitting strategy is okay?

Lol yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.  The Gallo thing worked great, let's do more of that.  

 

 

[Woof Bronzer]

4 hours ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

But the fact is that the Twins are indeed scoring runs, while striking out a very high rate.  Your argument seems to be that the offense can't be any good because they strike out.  My argument is that if the mix of strikeouts/runs works, it still works even if you don't find it eloquent.  Would it be better if we struck out less?  All other things the same, of course.  But, would everything else remain the same?  Do we hit as many home runs without the strikeouts?  Do we score as many runs without the home runs? Strikeouts are not a stand alone predictive statistic any more than stolen bases or walks.  If we score enough runs, we win.  If we do it while striking out "too much", so be it.  I'll take the win. 

The team is middle of the road in offense, and was absolutely terrible for half the season, which could have cost the team the division if any of the other 4 teams were trying to win it.  I find it very odd to point to this middling offense as proof that strikeouts don't matter.  

Yes, it would be much better if we struck out less.  This, again, is fact:  if we avoid the worst outcome, by definition, we will end up with better outcomes.  In fact we'd hit MORE HRs if we struck out less.   We'd turn HRs from solo shots to 2 or 3 run shots.  And relying solely on HRs in the playoffs is a recipe for disaster.  See 2019 for evidence of that.   

I'll ask again:  if strikeouts don't matter, why don't teams fill their pitching staffs with pitch to contact guys?  It would be so much cheaper, and equally as effective as high velocity guys since strikeouts don't matter.  

[Rod Carews Birthday]

3 hours ago, Woof Bronzer said:

The team is middle of the road in offense, and was absolutely terrible for half the season, which could have cost the team the division if any of the other 4 teams were trying to win it.  I find it very odd to point to this middling offense as proof that strikeouts don't matter.  

Yes, it would be much better if we struck out less.  This, again, is fact:  if we avoid the worst outcome, by definition, we will end up with better outcomes.  In fact we'd hit MORE HRs if we struck out less.   We'd turn HRs from solo shots to 2 or 3 run shots.  And relying solely on HRs in the playoffs is a recipe for disaster.  See 2019 for evidence of that.   

I'll ask again:  if strikeouts don't matter, why don't teams fill their pitching staffs with pitch to contact guys?  It would be so much cheaper, and equally as effective as high velocity guys since strikeouts don't matter.  

They are sixth of 15 American League teams in both runs scored and OPS+.  In the second half of the season they are #2.  My point is not that strikeouts don’t matter at all, merely that their current formula is working and that is what I care about. 
 

Offensive juggernaut Cleveland had the fewest strikeouts in the league this season, so obviously your second paragraph must be true. Fewer strikeouts obviously means more runs and more home runs.  

As to pitching, that’s another subject for another day   And yes, some teams do have a pitch to contact philosophy.  And, exactly like hitting, a team’s philosophy and approach are based on maximizing the particular skills of their personnel.  There is no perfect approach, just one that maximizes your talent.