Mike Pelfrey

[kab21]

I have zero clue why half you folks think $4-5 mil is expensive for a non-arb eligible starter. It's not. Look at the 2012 salaries. Mighty few starters pitching 150+ inn that make less.

 

Pelfrey is fine at that price, imo. Maybe they are sour on Bedard because he is always hurt and has had attitude trouble in the past. With the chances of us using many young players they might not want to subject them to someone like that.

 

I would also like to see Marcum added however, I think it is unlikely.

 

The problem is that the Twins still don't have a better than average pitcher and they just keep filling the bottom of the rotation.

[Guest USAFChief]

The problem is that the Twins still don't have a better than average pitcher and they just keep filling the bottom of the rotation.

 

Like I've been saying for a while now...Correia WAS the "big FA signing."

[panolo]

The problem is that the Twins still don't have a better than average pitcher and they just keep filling the bottom of the rotation.

 

When has it been any different? If we have a true 1 or 2 it is going to come through the farm system. The best we could be looking at in the market is Marcum and he is a #3 IMO.

 

I think Diamond was better than average last year. Worley has shown to be better than average. By all accounts Gibson has better than average stuff. We have some talent it is just unproven.

 

I would have loved to have swung a deal for Haren or Sanchez. It just isn't the Twins way so I don't expect it.

[kab21]

When has it been any different? If we have a true 1 or 2 it is going to come through the farm system. The best we could be looking at in the market is Marcum and he is a #3 IMO.

 

I think Diamond was better than average last year. Worley has shown to be better than average. By all accounts Gibson has better than average stuff. We have some talent it is just unproven.

 

I would have loved to have swung a deal for Haren or Sanchez. It just isn't the Twins way so I don't expect it.

 

Marcum is only a #3 (is that average) yet Diamond, Worley and Gibson are potentially above average?

 

You do realize that Marcum has 3.55 ERA for the last 5 seasons.

 

Haren was obtainable on a 1 yr deal for a relatively minor prospect (similar to KC's deal for Santana). Haren would have made the same amount as Correia and Pelfrey combined (13ish M). marcum is by all accounts available relatively cheap but instead Twins are piling up #4/5's for decent amounts of money.

[70charger]

Marcum is only a #3 (is that average) yet Diamond, Worley and Gibson are potentially above average?

 

You do realize that Marcum has 3.55 ERA for the last 5 seasons.

 

Haren was obtainable on a 1 yr deal for a relatively minor prospect (similar to KC's deal for Santana). Haren would have made the same amount as Correia and Pelfrey combined (13ish M). marcum is by all accounts available relatively cheap but instead Twins are piling up #4/5's for decent amounts of money.

 

League average tends to be right around a 4.10 ERA. Or, right about where a #4 starter tends to be. (Of course, that depends on your definition of the "numbers," but the average #4 starter on a team tends to be around a 4.00 - 4.10 ERA.)

 

So Marcum at 3.55 is pretty much exactly a #3. Scott Diamond was a 3.54 last year, which is also a #3 and also above average compared to the league's average ERA. Vance Worley was at 4.20 last year, or #4 caliber on a normal team, although the year before, he was at 3.01, or right between where an average #1 and #2 are.

 

We may be nitpicking here, but Marcum is a #3 (which is not equivalent to average), and Diamond and Worley have also both shown that they can be above average, although the jury is out on sustainability. Gibson is a big question mark at this juncture, but I think we all agree he's got the talent. These aren't mutually exclusive positions.

[SweetOne69]

League average tends to be right around a 4.10 ERA. Or, right about where a #4 starter tends to be. (Of course, that depends on your definition of the "numbers," but the average #4 starter on a team tends to be around a 4.00 - 4.10 ERA.)

 

So Marcum at 3.55 is pretty much exactly a #3. Scott Diamond was a 3.54 last year, which is also a #3 and also above average compared to the league's average ERA. Vance Worley was at 4.20 last year, or #4 caliber on a normal team, although the year before, he was at 3.01, or right between where an average #1 and #2 are.

 

We may be nitpicking here, but Marcum is a #3 (which is not equivalent to average), and Diamond and Worley have also both shown that they can be above average, although the jury is out on sustainability. Gibson is a big question mark at this juncture, but I think we all agree he's got the talent. These aren't mutually exclusive positions.

 

Let understand this, League average is 4.10. Teams have 5 starters and you claim that teams have 3 pitchers that are above average. That must be some new math.

[70charger]

Let understand this, League average is 4.10. Teams have 5 starters and you claim that teams have 3 pitchers that are above average. That must be some new math.

 

Teams usually have more than 5 people start for them per year. No new math here.

[70charger]

Teams usually have more than 5 people start for them per year. No new math here.

 

Just to further clarify, the Twins had, by my count, 11 starters last year. One of them is objectively the worst, but the parlance doesn't allow for calling a pitcher a "#11." Unless it's purely derogatory, I suppose.

 

A true #3 is above average, despite the fact that the terminology allows for 5 starters only.

[panolo]

Marcum is only a #3 (is that average) yet Diamond, Worley and Gibson are potentially above average?

 

You do realize that Marcum has 3.55 ERA for the last 5 seasons.

 

Haren was obtainable on a 1 yr deal for a relatively minor prospect (similar to KC's deal for Santana). Haren would have made the same amount as Correia and Pelfrey combined (13ish M). marcum is by all accounts available relatively cheap but instead Twins are piling up #4/5's for decent amounts of money.

 

I would have been all for Haren.

 

I realize what Marcum has done and I am not trying to discredit his success.He has been better than average, I just don't consider him a 1 or 2. I however believe he isn't going to get any better.

 

Diamond pitched better than average last year. His first half was well above. Whether the league started to catch up to him or he wore down I'm not sure. It will be interesting to see how he is this year and I will admit I have not looked hard at his secondary numbers.

 

Worley's starts in 11' and 12' until his bone chips were well above average. He shows the potential to be a 2 or 3.

 

I haven't seen a scouting report on Gibson that hasn't labeled him as a potential 2 or 3. I'm too lazy to look them up but he has plus stuff. Like I said he is unproven and many things can happen.

 

All 3 are 25-26 years old with room to learn and get better.

[CDog]

Let understand this, League average is 4.10. Teams have 5 starters and you claim that teams have 3 pitchers that are above average. That must be some new math.

 

The average of the numbers 1, 3, and 13 is clearly 3 by your logic. THAT is the really, super new math.