Twins history on this date

[yarnivek1972]

Today is the 11th anniversary of the Johan Santana trade according to my facebook feed.

 

 

Interestingly enough, Johan’s B-R page shows it on 2-8-08.

[Otto von Ballpark]

B-Ref has it as Feb. 2nd.

 

Jan. 29 was the original date of the trade agreement, contingent on the Mets negotiating an extension within the 72 hour window they were given. So it became final on Feb. 2.

[The Wise One]

Let that trade be a reminder that you do not have to give up Lewis, Kiriloff or Graterol to make a deal. You just have to have the right circumstances

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Let that trade be a reminder that you do not have to give up Lewis, Kiriloff or Graterol to make a deal. You just have to have the right circumstances

Keep in mind, Carlos Gomez was a top-50/60 prospect at the time, and considered MLB ready or close to it. He was definitely below Lewis and probably Kirilloff now too, but he was probably a decent value match for Graterol at the moment. Heck, Guerra might have been close to Graterol too --BA ranked him 35th, and Prospectus #79, at the time of the trade. (I still didn't like the trade, but that's because we were contenders, and we effectively swapped prime Johan for Livan Hernandez.)

[The Wise One]

Keep in mind, Carlos Gomez was a top-50/60 prospect at the time, and considered MLB ready or close to it. He was definitely below Lewis and probably Kirilloff now too, but he was probably a decent value match for Graterol at the moment. Heck, Guerra might have been close to Graterol too --BA ranked him 35th, and Prospectus #79, at the time of the trade. (I still didn't like the trade, but that's because we were contenders, and we effectively swapped prime Johan for Livan Hernandez.)

Gomez was already in the major leagues and ranked outside the top 50. That is not a good ranking. He outperformed his ranking. Guerra did not. Rankings outside the top 10-20 gets to be mostly useless.

[jkcarew]

 

Let that trade be a reminder that you do not have to give up Lewis, Kiriloff or Graterol to make a deal. You just have to have the right circumstances

Let's also remember that it's not exactly like the Mets fan look back and gloat over that trade...or even remember it that fondly.  The deal they agreed to in order to consummate the trade ended up having them pay a total of $76M over the last 4 years of the contract...a period of time where the team never won more than 82 games, and Johan contributed a total of 117 innings (and a 4.85 ERA). Ouch.

[The Wise One]

Let's also remember that it's not exactly like the Mets fan look back and gloat over that trade...or even remember it that fondly.  The deal they agreed to in order to consummate the trade ended up having them pay a total of $76M over the last 4 years of the contract...a period of time where the team never won more than 82 games, and Johan contributed a total of 117 innings (and a 4.85 ERA). Ouch.

Another example of why a team should not do long contracts. 3-4 years should be the max.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Gomez was already in the major leagues and ranked outside the top 50. That is not a good ranking. He outperformed his ranking. Guerra did not. Rankings outside the top 10-20 gets to be mostly useless.

Graterol is currently ranked outside the top 10-20 (and outside the top 50 except by Prospectus, same as Guerra was), yet you included him in your earlier post.

 

Obviously someone might have a personal preference for Graterol over Gomez or Guerra (too many G's ), but it's pretty clear that all 3 could be considered in a similar generic prospect value class.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Another example of why a team should not do long contracts. 3-4 years should be the max.

It depends when you do the contract. A 7 year deal for Johan in 2004 could have turned out just fine.

[The Wise One]

Graterol is currently ranked outside the top 10-20 (and outside the top 50 except by Prospectus, same as Guerra was), yet you included him in your earlier post.

 

Obviously someone might have a personal preference for Graterol over Gomez or Guerra (too many G's ), but it's pretty clear that all 3 could be considered in a similar generic prospect value class.

Graterol to many here is a prospect just a little bit behind the other two, As far as rankings go, Nick Blackburn was ranked number 56. Johan was never ranked as a prospect. Deleon Young was number one for me a few w years.

[The Wise One]

It depends when you do the contract. A 7 year deal for Johan in 2004 could have turned out just fine.

 

If any gm could have the foresight to lock up a starting pitcher like Santana for 7 years before he had been a full time starter it would be amazing. The Polonco contract in Pittsburgh turned out to be about right, so far

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

If any gm could have the foresight to lock up a starting pitcher like Santana for 7 years before he had been a full time starter it would be amazing.

FWIW, the Rays signed Chris Archer to a 6 year deal, plus 2 team options, after just 23 turns through the MLB rotation. Johan took the last 17 consecutive turns in the Twins rotation in 2003, including the postseason, plus had 17 additional starts over 2002-2003.

 

The Rays also signed Matt Moore to a 5 year deal, plus 3 team options, after he had just 1 MLB start.