FanGraphs: Mauer (and Utley) are Hall of Fame Worthy

[Seth Stohs]

Jay Jaffe looked at the careers of recent retirees Joe Mauer and Chase Utley. He put them up against others at their positions according to his JAWS Hall of Fame formula. Both definitely below in the conversation.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/retiring-mauer-and-utley-both-worthy-of-cooperstown/

 

[Doomtints]

Eventually some national sports journalist will write an article about why the HOF discussions around Mauer are ridiculous. This will probably be written around the time of his first vote.

 

When we see the reaction to this we will know whether or not Joe will be voted in.

 

Right now it looks favorable. I suspect that as time goes on, his numbers on paper will look even better. As inhuman as it sounds, retiring for "injury concerns" helps, as does his reputation as a nice guy. Personally I think he gets in, and on the first vote. Mauer is a feel-good story that is good for the sport.

 

Personally, when I look at Joe's numbers, I see a hall of famer. But I'm no expert, I also see that in Kent Hrbek, who would be in the HOF had he played a different position....

[Badsmerf]

You had me until Kent Hrbek.

[ashbury]

You had me until Kent Hrbek.

Hrbek's underrated. I recall hearing that other teams' game plans would identify Hrbie and not Puck as "we're not going to let him beat us" at the plate, but would pitch around or otherwise tactically try to neutralize him and take their chances with others.

 

I think what Doom is saying that his batting numbers are such that, if he had played a defensive position of more importance than 1B and played it well, you'd have the beginnings of a HOF argument, though hardly an Inner Circle type.

 

But, Hrbek would have been deployed somewhere different on the field if anyone had thought he was capable, and was not, so he is what he is. (He was nimble for a big man, and also IMO a smart baserunner, but not the asset that a more agile athlete would have been.)

 

Unlike people like Trout or Pujols, the bat alone isn't sufficient by itself to get Hrbek into the Hall.

 

I'm not going to make a HOF argument for Hrbek, and I don't think Doom is either. He's Hall of Very Good.

[nicksaviking]

Also, Hrbek's peak was the 1980's which was a very depressed offensive era, his numbers don't hold up as well in today's game, but I mean he's top 20 in OPS in the 1980's which puts him ahead of HOF'ers in their prime like Robin Yount, Dave Winfield, Ricky Henderson, Tim Raines, Andre Dawson, Jim Rice and Paul Molitor.

 

Obviously there are other factors, his position included, but Hrbek more than held his own with the bat during his era.

[gunnarthor]

Poz noted a few years ago that it's really hard to get into the HOF if you didn't have 8000 PA. Guys like Joe, Nomar, Oliva, Lynn, Holiday, Edmonds, Mattingly, Utley etc. Obviously, some of those names belong and some don't but all had HOF caliber seasons at a minimum. 

 

 

[ashbury]

Poz noted a few years ago that it's really hard to get into the HOF if you didn't have 8000 PA. Guys like Joe, Nomar, Oliva, Lynn, Holiday, Edmonds, Mattingly, Utley etc. Obviously, some of those names belong and some don't but all had HOF caliber seasons at a minimum. 

If I did the search correctly, only 10 players ever achieved 8000 PA while catching in at least 40% of their games.

 

If the HOF voters don't like catchers, they should just say so.

[nicksaviking]

 

If I did the search correctly, only 10 players ever achieved 8000 PA while catching in at least 40% of their games.

 

If the HOF voters don't like catchers, they should just say so.

 

Yeah, looks like Pudge, Fisk, Carter, Bench and Berra are the only HOF "catchers" ahead of Mauer on the all time PA list.

 

I'd guess in the case of 8000 PA, the cause and effect were being translated backwards. It's just harder to get the counting stats HOF voters like without 8000 PA, but counting stats have not historically been the benchmark when voting for catcher. Historically not for shortstop for that matter either.