Alex Anthopoulos

[DaveW]

Time to make a splash and set this team up for success, with Anthopoulos leaving the Blue Jays he is now baseball's hottest front office FA.

 

I would love to see Ryan bring in Alex to run the complete show, Ryan could still stay on as a minor league/prospect/scout adviser (with a very good title) as that is his passion anyway.

 

Anthopoulous would be GM and President of operations. Of course this would likely mean the end of St. Peter...which one could view as a positive as well.

 

Get it done Twins!

[Brock Beauchamp]

Eh, I remain unconvinced. Is he actually a good GM or did he have a really good July? The guy's track record is... spotty. And that's being generous.

 

I'm not against making a move but I'm skeptical of Anthopoulous. He reminds me a bit of Kenny Williams without a ring. Lots of commotion and "action", very little in the way of results most of the time. The flurry and bluster is disproportionate to the actual wins on the field.

[DaveW]

 

Eh, I remain unconvinced. Is he actually a good GM or did he have a really good July? The guy's track record is... spotty. And that's being generous.

 

I'm not against making a move but I'm skeptical of Anthopoulous. He reminds me a bit of Kenny Williams without a ring. Lots of commotion and "action", very little in the way of results most of the time. The flurry and bluster is disproportionate to the actual wins on the field.

He's still very young, so the improvement will continue to come, but even so, his trading track record is hard to argue with.

 

The only real "miss" was the RA Dickey trade, and it was a big miss, but all of the others look pretty damn good currently, especially the Donaldson one.

[Mike Sixel]

Eh, I remain unconvinced. Is he actually a good GM or did he have a really good July? The guy's track record is... spotty. And that's being generous.

 

I'm not against making a move but I'm skeptical of Anthopoulous. He reminds me a bit of Kenny Williams without a ring. Lots of commotion and "action", very little in the way of results most of the time. The flurry and bluster is disproportionate to the actual wins on the field.

Who was the GM when they brought in all those prospects so he could have a good July? He seems to have the "go for it" gene that Ryan appears to be missing. Not sure that makes him the right guy or not, but it would increase my confidence they'd actually try to win it all, rather than build for next year.

[Brock Beauchamp]

He's still very young, so the improvement will continue to come

That's really the root of my question. Is he learning and improving or did he just happen to strike gold? That's why I made the Williams comparison. Williams struck gold but wasn't a very good GM overall. I believe his teams only cracked 90 wins twice in a dozen or so years as GM.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Who was the GM when they brought in all those prospects so he could have a good July?

He definitely deserves credit for the prospects but Anthopoulos inherited Jose Bautista and struck dumb-luck-gold with the guy. A complete aberration. He made some pretty questionable trades for Reyes, Dickey. Chris Colabello became a monster through a bit of skill and ridiculous luck.

 

And that's the root of my skepticism. He's a young GM so it's possible he's learning and improving as he makes mistakes... Or it's possible a perfect storm of luck fueled his 2015 season, the only season his team has won more than 85 games. Yeah, the Jays play in the AL East but there's still plenty of room for skepticism about how savvy Anthopoulos is as a general manager. One good season isn't going to win me over completely.

[Mike Sixel]

Every GM gets lucky and/or unlucky with players. I don't know if he's good at his job or not, but I know that when there is a chance to win, he takes that chance. Yup, he made some bad trades, and yet, they were still the best team in the majors this year. How many GMs can recover from 2 bad trades, and still have his team be that good?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Every GM gets lucky and/or unlucky with players. I don't know if he's good at his job or not, but I know that when there is a chance to win, he takes that chance. 

That may be enough for you but it's not enough for me.

 

Again, I'm not bashing the guy, I'm merely skeptical...

 

When it comes to GMs, I really boil it down to three things:

 

1. Sustained competitiveness

2. Postseason

3. Rings

 

Whether a team makes the WC game or the ALCS doesn't really matter to me. It's a playoff appearance and the team ends up at the same point whether they play four additional games or not. They made it to the postseason, which is somewhat of a crapshoot, but didn't advance. The next level is (obviously) winning a ring and that's what matters.

 

To compare Ryan and Anthopoulos - and it's not an entirely fair comparison because Ryan has been GM for so much longer - Ryan has proven one and two. Anthopoulos has proven two. Neither has accomplished three.

 

Would Anthopoulos accomplish one if he stayed the Jays' GM for 2-3 more seasons? It's possible but given the make-up of that team, I'm skeptical he built a team for sustained success. The Jays' system is rather depleted at this point and the Jays are sitting at home, just like everybody else. They have Tulo for three more seasons - whether that's good or bad remains to be seen but I worry about his health playing on turf 81 times a year - and they'll almost surely lose Bautista after the 2016 season.

[Mike Sixel]

I don't think I've said anywhere that it is enough for me.....no place have I said he is good at his job, or that the Twins should hire him. I have merely pointed out that when he has an open door to go for it, he does, unlike Ryan, who has steadfastly refused to do so.

[Thrylos]

 

 

When it comes to GMs, I really boil it down to three things:

 

1. Sustained competitiveness

2. Postseason

3. Rings

[...]

 

To compare Ryan and Anthopoulos - and it's not an entirely fair comparison because Ryan has been GM for so much longer - Ryan has proven one and two. Anthopoulos has proven two. Neither has accomplished three.

 

Ryan has proven "sustained competitiveness"?    17 years as a GM, the Twins made the post-season 4 times (3 of which went out in the first series), 10 seasons were 4th or 5th in their league and 3 seasons were 2nd or 3rd.

 

4 seasons of competitiveness is not sustained.  It was a peak and then dropped off.  Could be like Toronto, could not.  Also, that peak was very likely because of the weakness of the division, unlike Toronto. 

 

What Ryan sustained (10/17 seasons) it is not anything anyone would like sustained, unless they are not Twins' fans.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I don't think I've said anywhere that it is enough for me.....no place have I said he is good at his job, or that the Twins should hire him. I have merely pointed out that when he has an open door to go for it, he does, unlike Ryan, who has steadfastly refused to do so.

I don't disagree. This offseason will be very telling about Ryan. He has much more payroll flexibility than he had in the Dome days and has shown some willingness to go out and buy the pieces he needs to improve the team.

 

Now he needs to take that willingness to spend half a step further and make some moves. It won't require a lot to satisfy me... Picking up Wieters and a good righty out of the pen would do wonders for the 2016 squad.

 

But if he sits on Suzuki (unlikely given his interview statements) and lets the pen roll as-is (or picks up more scrapheap guys), groaaaaaaaan.

 

The Twins should be able to push this payroll toward $120m this offseason. After the surprise 2015 and the revenue that comes with it, there's no excuse not to stay on the gas.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Ryan has proven "sustained competitiveness"?    17 years as a GM, the Twins made the post-season 4 times (3 of which went out in the first series), 10 seasons were 4th or 5th in their league and 3 seasons were 2nd or 3rd.

 

4 seasons of competitiveness is not sustained.  It was a peak and then dropped off.  Could be like Toronto, could not.  Also, that peak was very likely because of the weakness of the division, unlike Toronto. 

 

What Ryan sustained (10/17 seasons) it is not anything anyone would like sustained, unless they are not Twins' fans.

How'd I know you'd pop in here with that "17 seasons" argument?

 

I think I made it pretty clear that comparing the two GMs wasn't entirely fair, as one of them had their growing pains in the 90s while the other *might* be emerging from those growing pains right now.

 

The mistakes Ryan made in the 90s are completely irrelevant to this conversation. That's akin to blaming me for not being very good at coding or design when I was 23 years old.

[DaveW]

 

He definitely deserves credit for the prospects but Anthopoulos inherited Jose Bautista and struck dumb-luck-gold with the guy. A complete aberration. He made some pretty questionable trades for Reyes, Dickey. Chris Colabello became a monster through a bit of skill and ridiculous luck.

 

And that's the root of my skepticism. He's a young GM so it's possible he's learning and improving as he makes mistakes... Or it's possible a perfect storm of luck fueled his 2015 season, the only season his team has won more than 85 games. Yeah, the Jays play in the AL East but there's still plenty of room for skepticism about how savvy Anthopoulos is as a general manager. One good season isn't going to win me over completely.

That Reyes trade wasn't even that bad, they got Buerhle out of it as well, the only piece they gave up who became anything of note Escobar. Reyes was actually pretty solid for the Blue Jays in 13/14 and Johnson was a gamble that didn't pay off

 

The only bad trade was the Dickey one.

[DaveW]

17 years, one playoff series victories, you can make excuses all you want Brock, but those results are POOR for ANY franchise in ANY sport.

 

The "let's see what Ryan does with money this off-season" seems to have been repeated multiple years in a row now. Fool me once, shame on me, fool me 17 times, time for the GM to go!

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

17 years, one playoff series victories, you can make excuses all you want Brock, but those results are POOR for ANY franchise in ANY sport.

As I said earlier, playoff series wins don't impress me much unless the team wins every playoff series that season.

 

Get there and see what happens. Unfortunately for the Twins, what happened was really ugly.*

 

Why do so many people hang that "one playoff series win" tag on Ryan but so willingly give Beane a pass at every opportunity? Because he makes a lot more moves?

 

I think they're both good general mangers, each with their own flaws... But playoff series wins isn't one of them.

 

*BTW, in no way am I giving Ryan a pass for his deadline moves from 2001-2007. That is one of his flaws, probably his biggest.

[Willihammer]

I wish TR were more aggressive too but AA is overaggressive. He's gutted the Jays system and sent quite a few  high picks to other teams for nothing in return, with the exception of Donaldson obviously.

[beckmt]

Remember the Twins were basically a small market team with the dome.  Now they have the revenue stream to be midmarket.  I would think that even $130 million would not hurt them.  It all depends on how you spend the money.  I would work on the KC model and expect in 2 years we will have a shutdown bullpen.  Fixing catcher now is manditory and finding an ace if not Berrios will also help. 

I am looking forward to this offseason and seeing what moves are made.

[DaveW]

 

As I said earlier, playoff series wins don't impress me much unless the team wins every playoff series that season.

 

Get there and see what happens. Unfortunately for the Twins, what happened was really ugly.*

 

Why do so many people hang that "one playoff series win" tag on Ryan but so willingly give Beane a pass at every opportunity? Because he makes a lot more moves?

 

I think they're both good general mangers, each with their own flaws... But playoff series wins isn't one of them.

 

*BTW, in no way am I giving Ryan a pass for his deadline moves from 2001-2007. That is one of his flaws, probably his biggest.

Uhhhh Beane isn't a GM any more, therefore obviously "everybody" didn't give him a "pass"

Ryan is a Pohlad pocket protector first and foremost and a GM trying to win a title second.

[DaveW]

 

 

I wish TR were more aggressive too but AA is overaggressive. He's gutted the Jays system and sent quite a few  high picks to other teams for nothing in return, with the exception of Donaldson obviously.

Donaldson is the MVP of the league this year. They didn't send anyone of note for Tulo, who still can put together some great seasons for them. Price is the one who will walk, but that is what it is, I still commend him for that trade and "going for it"

[Willihammer]

 

Donaldson is the MVP of the league this year. They didn't send anyone of note for Tulo, who still can put together some great seasons for them. Price is the one who will walk, but that is what it is, I still commend him for that trade and "going for it"

They sent Jeff Hoffman, who was at one time considered a top 3 pick. He's like the 4th first/supplemental pick AA has traded away since he took over. Maybe they have drafted really well in later rounds but I know they don't have many first rounders left. They sent another to Houston (along with six other prospects) and the main piece in that deal was J.A. Happ (whom they flipped for Michael Saunders). Then there is the Dickey trade obviously. How good would the Jays have been with D'Arnaud, Syndergaard, and the 85m they spent on Martin?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Uhhhh Beane isn't a GM any more, therefore obviously "everybody" didn't give him a "pass"

Beane hasn't been a GM for all of 20-something days, Dave. And he received a promotion. Come on.

[DaveW]

 

They sent Jeff Hoffman, who was at one time considered a top 3 pick. He's like the 4th first/supplemental pick AA has traded away since he took over. Maybe they have drafted really well in later rounds but I know they don't have many first rounders left. They sent another to Houston (along with six other prospects) and the main piece in that deal was J.A. Happ (whom they flipped for Michael Saunders). Then there is the Dickey trade obviously. How good would the Jays have been with D'Arnaud, Syndergaard, and the 85m they spent on Martin?

I already said multiple times that the Dickey trade was bad. Call me when any of those other guys they traded away do anything in the majors, people get way too hung up on prospects.

[DaveW]

 

Beane hasn't been a GM for all of 20-something days, Dave. And he received a promotion. Come on.

Lol if you think that was a "true" promotion, yes, going from running the day to day show to not doing that anymore in basically a token front office role is a "promotion"

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Lol if you think that was a "true" promotion, yes, going from running the day to day show to not doing that anymore in basically a token front office role is a "promotion"

http://www.obnoxiousbostonfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Theo.jpg

[DaveW]

 

http://www.obnoxiousbostonfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Theo.jpg

Make no mistake, Theo is still running the show in Chicago. They basically just overspent and got two quality guys.

 

Oakland? Nope. Beane isn't making the personal calls anymore. The Twins should follow suit like the A's have done:

"Promote" Ryan to President, sign a new GM who can "go for it"

Send Dave St Peter and his cancer kid stadium advertising plan packing!

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The Twins should follow suit like the A's have done:

"Promote" Ryan to President, sign a new GM who can "go for it"

To be clear, I like the idea of this move... But I'm not sure Anthopoulos is the right guy.

 

I'm also not sure he's not the right guy.

[DaveW]

 

To be clear, I like the idea of this move... But I'm not sure Anthopoulos is the right guy.

 

I'm also not sure he's not the right guy.

I think Ryan as president and AA as the GM could be perfect, maybe a bit of Terry's conservatism rubs off on AA?

 

Again, I like what he has done overall as a body of work, the Dickey trade however is a disaster and hard to ignore. Mainly why I like about him is that he was pretty young when he became a GM and still is young, IMO young GM's, coaches etc are much more likely to "change their ways" and adapt then the "old school guys" or at least they are willing to do it more quickly (see: how long it took the Twins to actually get into advanced stats, even now that department is behind and understaffed as most would agree)

[Willihammer]

 

Lol if you think that was a "true" promotion, yes, going from running the day to day show to not doing that anymore in basically a token front office role is a "promotion"

I'm not going to go through all the trades but some of tho prospects have debuted already in the bigs - Wojciechowski and Rollins just from that 7 player package.

[Thrylos]

 

Remember the Twins were basically a small market team with the dome.  Now they have the revenue stream to be midmarket.  I would think that even $130 million would not hurt them.  It all depends on how you spend the money.  I would work on the KC model and expect in 2 years we will have a shutdown bullpen.  Fixing catcher now is manditory and finding an ace if not Berrios will also help. 

I am looking forward to this offseason and seeing what moves are made.

 

The Rays and the Royals (the last 2 seasons) have proven that the "small market" talk was just an excuse for inability/ineptitude/caringlessness  (pick your poison.)

[DaveW]

 

I'm not going to go through all the trades but some of tho prospects have debuted already in the bigs - Wojciechowski and Rollins just from that 7 player package.

Again, call me when they "do something" in the bigs. Mojecieshowski? He is a non prospect, 4.32 ERA in AAA then gets shelled at age 26 in the majors.

 

I'm not trying to call you out or anything, I just think people get way too wrapped up in trading prospects when the majority of which never pan out or become average anyways. The Dickey trade definitely hurts though and will continue to hurt.