Doumit to the DL, Ben Revere's Coming Back

[twinsnorth49]

If you ever come to visit our planet. twinsnorth will give you a Labatt's.

For sure eh, a 50, it's all good.

[Shane Wahl]

I didn't say... That you said... I think our difference in opinion stems from what is a great hitter. Compare him to Hamilton and he is not a great hitter. Compare him to Mario Mendoza and Ben is a great hitter. The Guy makes contact and consistently puts the ball in play... As long as they are not fly balls... This is good and it makes him a great hitter in a different type of way. Holding his lack of XBH against him is like looking at a rabbit and saying its not an Armadillo. You wouldn't ask Morneau to become a stolen base threat.

 

I'm a Ben fan and I'd like him in this lineup right now. I would not start him over Josh Hamilton or Jay Bruce or Shin Soo Choo. We just don't have any spare Hamilton's and Bruce's around at the moment.

 

Travis, twinsnorth and I just come from a different baseball planet. We don't worry about 30 singles out of 31 in AAA. We'd like to see him improve the plate discipline and work some more walks and add bunt singles to his game. Get his OBP up anyway he can and I think he will.

 

Ben just needs to keep running into walls making plays, Make the pitcher think about him on base and deliver fastballs to the two hitter because of the base threat he is and just reach the cutoff man without incident.

 

If you ever come to visit our planet. twinsnorth will give you a Labatt's.

I am not sure so that "great hitter" is the problem, but, like Clinton, what "is" is. I think Revere is only proving himself this year as a AAA hitter ("great" I don't know, but whatever). He is not, as in presently, a great MLB hitter. I am not asking him to slug .400, but he has slugged .302 in 531 major league plate appearances. If .302 was his batting average, then the discussion of IS he a great hitter could begin. Stealing that number of bases is great, and there should be some way to properly calculate that as some fraction of a double (or triple). Both his average and his slugging will go up if instead of grounding to second and short, he lines the ball over them and into the gaps. .320/.360/.360 is what I would look for from him, but I would take .300/.340/.340 if he is batting 8th or 9th and stealing 50+ bases. And playing left field . . .

 

Speaking of, keep in mind that I am more with you than against you on your overall evaluation of Revere. And I don't really understand how Willingham's lack of professional "baseballerness" in not making a simple move to an EASIER (in TF) OF position. That started a chain reaction that changed a rather dynamic Revere-Span-Willingham OF into a bad LF defense and ridiculous offensive and defensive RF situation that is absurd. Given J-Will's stubbornness, I do think that they had to send Revere to Rochester. Jokes like Clete Thomas got involved . . . how about THAT lowering Willingham's WAR and WPA!!!!!!!!

 

I was thinking of blogging about the alternative universe in which the Twins started as planned originally with Revere in LF. I will get that soonish.

[CDog]

Speaking of, keep in mind that I am more with you than against you on your overall evaluation of Revere. And I don't really understand how Willingham's lack of professional "baseballerness" in not making a simple move to an EASIER (in TF) OF position. That started a chain reaction that changed a rather dynamic Revere-Span-Willingham OF into a bad LF defense and ridiculous offensive and defensive RF situation that is absurd. Given J-Will's stubbornness, I do think that they had to send Revere to Rochester. Jokes like Clete Thomas got involved . . . how about THAT lowering Willingham's WAR and WPA!!!!!!!!

 

I was thinking of blogging about the alternative universe in which the Twins started as planned originally with Revere in LF. I will get that soonish.

STILL haven't seen anywhere where he was unwilling. Everything at the time was about Revere not impressing as expected in left (and for reasons listed aplenty here and elsewhere) or offensively. Take away that and now put the Hammer in right field and all you do is switch the hole from one side to the other. All the other options used are either equally adept (or not adept) at either corner or equally inexperienced at either one. So why not put Willingham where he's likely better and more comfortable? If he was unwilling, why wouldn't he have been so from the get go?

[travistwinstalk]

I agree Revere should not be right field, but he should be playing every day for the Twins over guys like Plouffe, Komatsu, and Mastroianni. He is a career .326 hitter in the minor leagues and 160 stolen bases. So yeah i stand by my point that Ben Revere is a great minor league hitter who only has had 496 major league ab's and to say he will not be a great mlb hitter is foolish because that is such a small sample size. I don't believe he has gotten the opportunity to play everyday except last year when he was a rookie. I guarantee you if he played everyday this year he would put up signficantly better numbers than he did last season. He is only 24 years old and he is only going to get better. The thing that I disagree with people all the time is you act like a singles hitter is a bad thing. Add in his speed and he is not a singles hitter he is a nuisance and a basestealer the Twins haven't had in years. Look at the late 80's Cardinal teams with Vince Coleman, Ozzie Smith, and Willie Mcgee were singles hitter that ran roughshot on the bases. I don't know if Revere can be that good, but those criticizing him because he is a singles hitter are selling him short. If he can learn to take a few more walks to increase his OBP I would be completly happy having Ben Revere starting for the Twins.

[snepp]

"Great" minor league hitters don't OPS .700.

[Guest USAFChief]

"Great" minor league hitters don't OPS .700.

He's got a great smile. That adds a lot of value.

[Shane Wahl]

STILL haven't seen anywhere where he was unwilling. Everything at the time was about Revere not impressing as expected in left (and for reasons listed aplenty here and elsewhere) or offensively. Take away that and now put the Hammer in right field and all you do is switch the hole from one side to the other. All the other options used are either equally adept (or not adept) at either corner or equally inexperienced at either one. So why not put Willingham where he's likely better and more comfortable? If he was unwilling, why wouldn't he have been so from the get go?

Fair enough, but A: he did remark about being more comfortable in LF, B: Revere was not impressing when? In ST? Yet another decision made based on ST performance with this team. I do remember hearing some jabbering about defensive problems this spring, you are correct. But that's stupid, and they are stupid if they let that impact the decision to keep Willingham in left and not have Revere there. Of course without Revere, Willingham should be in LF.

 

So maybe I have Gardy, et al. to blame instead of Willingham? That strangely makes me feel better.

[DJSim22]

I'm sure surprised Revere was called up considering the upper management hates him. They prefer Homacksu and Clete Thomas to Revere. They also refuse to stand up to Span and tell him he is moving to right field.

Management hates Slama far more than Revere. He gets too many strikeouts for their liking.

[snepp]

He's got a great smile. That adds a lot of value.

You got me there, he really does have a great smile.

[CDog]

Fair enough, but A: he did remark about being more comfortable in LF, B: Revere was not impressing when? In ST? Yet another decision made based on ST performance with this team. I do remember hearing some jabbering about defensive problems this spring, you are correct. But that's stupid, and they are stupid if they let that impact the decision to keep Willingham in left and not have Revere there. Of course without Revere, Willingham should be in LF.

 

So maybe I have Gardy, et al. to blame instead of Willingham? That strangely makes me feel better.

I would agree that Gardy is who you are after from what I've seen and read and all that (assuming one finds blame necessary...I don't know enough to know if there is any need for it). But to answer B, yes the comments came from fairly early in spring training (again, not saying they were correct, but that's when they happened) that boiled down to not liking some things about Revere in LF. But we certainly know it wasn't unwillingness from Willingham...cuz otherwise his name would be Unwillingham. I don't care if that seems forced, I've been dying to use some form of that joke for a while now. I couldn't hold it in any longer.

[Shane Wahl]

I would agree that Gardy is who you are after from what I've seen and read and all that (assuming one finds blame necessary...I don't know enough to know if there is any need for it). But to answer B, yes the comments came from fairly early in spring training (again, not saying they were correct, but that's when they happened) that boiled down to not liking some things about Revere in LF. But we certainly know it wasn't unwillingness from Willingham...cuz otherwise his name would be Unwillingham. I don't care if that seems forced, I've been dying to use some form of that joke for a while now. I couldn't hold it in any longer.

Haha, well I would have preferred Revere in LF and Willingham in RF than what ended up happening.

[Riverbrian]

I would agree that Gardy is who you are after from what I've seen and read and all that (assuming one finds blame necessary...I don't know enough to know if there is any need for it). But to answer B, yes the comments came from fairly early in spring training (again, not saying they were correct, but that's when they happened) that boiled down to not liking some things about Revere in LF. But we certainly know it wasn't unwillingness from Willingham...cuz otherwise his name would be Unwillingham. I don't care if that seems forced, I've been dying to use some form of that joke for a while now. I couldn't hold it in any longer.

Sometimes you gotta force them in. You could end up waiting until August for proper comedic context. By August the mood on this site could be a tough crowd. Just to let you know... I appreciate "Unwillingham" and give you full credit.

 

Ive been waiting for the chance to call him Accomodating-Bacon for the humor and the chance just hasn't arrived. When it does... Its going to magical.

[CDog]

Haha, well I would have preferred Revere in LF and Willingham in RF than what ended up happening.

I think I would have, too. I just don't know that for sure (based on things that I just don't know), and I don't think the reason for it is properly assigned to the Accomodating Bacon. That's all.

[Riverbrian]

Willingham was never unwilling. He mentioned that RF would be a new experience... That's all. He was prepping for it. I don't recall any Ben in LF concerns coming out of spring training.

 

It all changed when Justin became a DH. That was Doumits spot. Doumit moved to RF as a result because Doumit said he was not comfortable at all playing 1B. Willingham then moved back to his LF spot. Parmelee had a good spring and he became the surprise 1B and All the shuffling piled up on Ben and he became the 4th outfielder. It all changed the last week of spring and was a chain reaction.

 

I can be as wrong as the next guy but I liked the original lineup pre spring training and think we would have been better off in the offense and defense department.

Span CF

Carroll SS

Mauer C

Morneau 1B

Willingham RF

Doumit DH

Velencia 3B

Casilla 2B

Revere LF

[Top Gun]

How bad is Doumit? Will he play this weekend?

[travistwinstalk]

Gardy is not the reason that Revere spent most of the season so far in Rochester. That credit goes to Terry Ryan who told everyone that would listen that Revere was nothing more than a 4th outfielder. I respect Terry Ryan's opinion, but i think he is wrong about Ben Revere as I think he brings so much to the plate. Look at the lineup yesterday after Morneau you had a 6-9 of Plouffe, Casilla, Butera(I know drew had 3 hits, but that will never ever happen again), and Carroll. So basically every inning or 2 it was an easy inning for the pitcher. With Plouffe he should not be starting, I know he has 3 homeruns but that is also 30 percent of the hits he has on the year and thats terrible. There is no doubt in my mind the proper 2013 lineup for the Twins should be.

1. Span CF

2. Dozier SS

3. Mauer C

4. Willingham RF

5. Morneau 1b

6. Doumit DH

7. Valencia 3b

8. Carroll 2b

9. Revere LF

[Top Gun]

Ryan Doumit (calf) is expected only to be available as a pinch-hitter for the weekend series against the Brewers.

 

Not surprising. It had looked like Doumit was headed for the disabled list, but the Twins have decided to hold off. He's not ready to start just yet but thinks he'll be available for DH duty starting next Tuesday. "Best-case scenario is ... I'll be ready to DH or do something like that [Tuesday], the first game in Chicago, so that's what I'm hoping for," Doumit said.

 

 

Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune

[StormJH1]

@Riverbrian - I think that Revere, not Morneau, was the primary reason the lineup shuffled the way it did. We're so in the middle of this terrible pitching season in 2012, that you have to keep in mind how anemic the hitting was in 2011. Gardy (to his credit, I think) tried to change it up and put a more powerful lineup on the field. He did that even though they are invested in Revere and I think they like him as a kid. Playing a "National League" style of offense comes naturally to Gardy, and I think he did the right thing going against his comfort zone to give the team a chance to be better. The fact that it didn't work had much more to do with the weakness of the talent pool than anything Gardy did. We know what Revere is, and playing him would not have solved the problem. The problem was that we basically "whiffed" on Parmelee, Plouffe, Carroll, Burroughs, Valencia, and Casilla - all of whom had sub-standard starts.

 

@Top Gun - I think the mere fact that the Twins decided not to DL Doumit...means that he will probably be hurt for much longer than anticipated. Doumit has never been able to remain healthy, and the description of a "pop" in his calf did not sound good. Plus, we're headed to an NL park, which means the only options for him are C or RF. Catcher's about the worst thing you could do with a sore calf (right?) and it's tough to imagine his range being even worse in RF. I would sit him out for the Brewers series and make sure he's right.

[minn55441]

So with Doumit out for the weekend, or at least not starting this weekend does Joe Catch all three games? Do we give one start to Butera and then start Joe at first or give him the day off? How does this affect Justin at first?

 

I'm leaning towards and think Gardy will have Joe start all three games, starting one of those at first to give Justin the day off. Hopefully Doumit will only miss this series as his injury really limits the flexibility of our already limited roster.

[twinsnorth49]

For a AAA singles hitter that sure was a nice lead off triple Revere hit tonight.

[Riverbrian]

@Riverbrian - I think that Revere, not Morneau, was the primary reason the lineup shuffled the way it did. We're so in the middle of this terrible pitching season in 2012, that you have to keep in mind how anemic the hitting was in 2011. Gardy (to his credit, I think) tried to change it up and put a more powerful lineup on the field. He did that even though they are invested in Revere and I think they like him as a kid. Playing a "National League" style of offense comes naturally to Gardy, and I think he did the right thing going against his comfort zone to give the team a chance to be better. The fact that it didn't work had much more to do with the weakness of the talent pool than anything Gardy did. We know what Revere is, and playing him would not have solved the problem. The problem was that we basically "whiffed" on Parmelee, Plouffe, Carroll, Burroughs, Valencia, and Casilla - all of whom had sub-standard starts.

 

I don't think Ben solves our Offense problems. Like I said... I can be as wrong as the next guy. I said I was comfortable with the original pre spring training projected lineup with Ben in LF. Despite my comfortableness with the lineup pre April... It didn't come to play in April and it had nothing to do with Ben being the 4th OF or in Rochester.

 

I remember the 2011 Tosoni, Tolbert, Repko attack. For that reason I was looking forward to full year of Ben on the base paths and defense wall climbing. I watched 2011 and Ben was the only reason I kept watching. It was a downyear and I feel Ben was an up in the face of it.

 

All in all... You could be right but I personally don't think Ben lost his 2012 LF job based on his play in Spring. He was typical Ben in The Grapefruit. Morneau not playing 1B was the first domino that eventually fell on Ben. The headlines ran side by side. Willingham to LF and Morneau to DH. Where is Doumit going to play? Again I can be as wrong as the next guy but I'm pretty sure that Willingham didn't refuse to play RF. He spent the majority of spring in RF and held his own.

 

Doumit needed a spot cuz Morneau took his. I also think Parmelee took Butera or Towles out and that really moved Doumit away from DH and if Morneau is going to not play first. Well... That becomes Parmelee. When the music stopped. Ben didn't have a chair.

 

I felt bad for the kid... I'm really pulling for him. I still think LF should be his.

[Riverbrian]

For a AAA singles hitter that sure was a nice lead off triple Revere hit tonight.

A big EH on the end of that... High five Canadien Neighbor. Reaching on that error was speed related rushing as well. I put the stop watch on him for triple. Home to 3b in 1.3 seconds. I used the same stop watch to time my trip from Grand Forks to Winnipeg. 28 minutes including a stop at the border and a search of my car. They weren't suspicious of anything. They just couldn't believe it was actually a functioning car.

[Shane Wahl]

A big EH on the end of that... High five Canadien Neighbor. Reaching on that error was speed related rushing as well. I put the stop watch on him for triple. Home to 3b in 1.3 seconds. I used the same stop watch to time my trip from Grand Forks to Winnipeg. 28 minutes including a stop at the border and a search of my car. They weren't suspicious of anything. They just couldn't believe it was actually a functioning car.

I am glad for him as well. I really want to see doubles and triples from Revere. I am not sure how the evidence doesn't support Revere being a AAA singles hitter though.

[Riverbrian]

I am glad for him as well. I really want to see doubles and triples from Revere. I am not sure how the evidence doesn't support Revere being a AAA singles hitter though.

Don't pretend you like him now. It's too late for that. Just kidding. He is a singles hitter... no one is disputing that or at least should dispute that.

 

North was just saying how ah-boot that triple eh!