ewen21

I don't think "dominant" is what I would call his minor league run. He had a .883 over his minor league career, which is very good, but then guys like Scooter Gennett and Asdrubal Cabrera are doing that at the major league level this season. Eric Hosmer did that last year. A very good year, not dominant, in my opinion.

YOu are correct about that and I will take it a little further..... No fan should be accused of "buying the hype". Whether anyone did or didn't means absolutely nothing. What is important is that it is 2018 and just about anyone associated with this team had big expectations for this kid by now. It isn't your fault or any other fan's fault that he is playing well below expectations. I think a big thing with Buxton is the psychological part of the game. He is almost deferential out there. Kind of like he is still in the apprentice stage.

When you come to this site or even the mlb site for the Twins Buxton is prominently featured in marketing statements. Even on television he is prominently featured, assumed to be a star. Bremer, Hunter and whomever else sits in the booth heap accolades on him. Articles were written about his wonderful talents and amazing potential were for a number of years even after his shaky start. He was the 2nd pick in the 1st round and was compared to some great players. Tom Kelly, among other "sages" in the Twins organization professed an unlimited ceiling. On and on it went...… Is it any fan's fault to start wondering what the Hell is going on with this guy? I am being serious. He doesn't just look bad. He looks Brian Buchanan bad in some at bats. So bad, that the speed and defense could hardly justify a place in the batting order any longer. I never hyped him up or had super high expectations. I just don't get that way. I wanted to wait and see what the guy would do as a major leaguer and thus far he has instilled ZERO confidence in me.

Not sure why anyone should suffer any kind of personal assault for what you said in bold. Currently he is bad and we have seen this rerun a few times now. It would be nice if his speed and defense could actually make up for his ineptitude at the plate, but it simply cannot. As per baseballalmanac.com a major league CF averages 2.5 putouts per game. How many plays does he make that no one else can make? He makes some nice plays for sure, but is every single running catch he makes a catch no one else can make? Most certainly not. It's like every web gem he makes is assumed to have the value of a 3 run homer and that just is not the case. The fact is, he has to get up 4 times a game, sometimes 5. Even if he averaged one otherworldly play a week it won't make up for all the horrendous at bats he gives us every single week. Let's just call it what it is right now. Buxton is a huge disappointment thus far.

The idea that Target Field is the reason why Joe doesn't hit any home runs is absurd. Remember, in 2009 Joe hit away 12 home runs so even if Target Field took away a few home runs he wasn't hitting them anywhere. As it is, I don't recall Joe having very many near misses back then and now he rarely balls that make the outfielders back up. IT isn't even about the HRs for me. How about hitting some gappers? Joe has been near the absolute bottom in ISO for the last I don't know how many years.

I will remain cautiously optimistic

Thanks Carol. This isn't actually important to me although I have my opinion on the matter. I feel that if he was able to catch the whole time it would be different, but he has now spent a lot of time at first base. So much so this disqualifies him from being grouped with HOF catchers who spent their whole careers playing catcher. Saying he IS a catcher is not right if we are trying to maintain integrity (that is what I think at least). He was a catcher for half his career.

Is this thread meant to confront people who don't feel Mauer has earned his plaque in Cooperstown, or is about an article that compares Joe to Molina? I am actually being serious. I will try to address that and a little bit more. If he were a sure thing these kinds of threads would not pop up every couple of weeks. I think we all know in our heart of hearts the reason behind all these "Mauer for the HOF" threads is because the hometown fans want Joe to be enshrined. The lobbying process has been in force for several years already. It is as simple as that and it is understandable, but I do not think it is "silly" if he doesn't get in to the HOF. Not if you know about the process and consider that your Twins fan bias might cloud your vision. It doesn't for me. In my opinion, based off what the criteria has been since about the 1950s, Joe isn't there. The HOF requires players to reach career milestones. Think back to a month ago when Joe collected his 2,000 hit and what a big deal that was for the fans and our board. Was that silly? He isn't going to make it for a number of obvious reasons. First is because he is not going to be viewed as a catcher. I keep seeing articles that lump him in with catchers and you can't do that. The Baseball Writer's Association of America isn't going to do that and they do the voting. The fact is, he played 897 games at catcher and 887 elsewhere. If he can manage to stay healthy within the next three weeks he will have played more games away from catcher than he did as a catcher. People like to throw Mickey Cochrane out there because his power isn't there, but bear in mind he caught almost 600 more games as a catcher and retired with a .320 batting average. That is pretty significant. He was also from a totally different era and lifetime, to the point where his numbers are irrelevant by today's standard. YOu would have to be one looking to change (read lower) standards and I am not in that camp. To me, the "he's a catcher" argument isn't going to work. The numbers do not back up that claim. Not when more than half of the games he played were at other positions. As far as Molina is concerned, I could not care less about him, or what these sportswriter's or media outlets say about him. They don't move me at all. I don't think he is quite a HOFer, but what Molina has been his entire career is a CATCHER. He can say that, Joe cannot (concussion or whatever the reason). Joe will not be viewed solely as a catcher. Bench, Carter, Piazza, Pudge, Berra, etc,.....those are CATCHERS as in they played catcher their ENTIRE CAREER. Joe does not at this point and has not for years. If the Baseball Writer's Association of America doesn't vote him in it is most certainly not a travesty and it certainly wouldn't be "silly". A travesty (or "silly") would be LeVelle E Neal III not giving Pedro Martinez a vote in his first year of eligibility. What is wrong with saying he did some great things for a period of time, but these last eight years will be a big reason why he won't make it? In his seasons since that contract kicked in (coincidence or not) he had this for a slash line: .291-8-56. Before that gets dismissed that because I don't mention any analytics, consider who is voting. Then also consider there are a number of offensive metrics that make Joe look bad. It is a double edged sword. For starters, his ISO has been absolutely horrid for years. He has set near the bottom in hitting extra base hits for years now. Like 140th out of 150something qualifiers awful. That is beside the point, but if you want to beat the analytics drum then EVERYTHING is in play (not just the ones where walks enhance the numbers). In the end, Mauer is a fringe guy, kind of like Don Mattingly. If Mauer doesn't get in, I will not be because some conspiracy is afoot, or some pernicious anti- Minnesota bias is being applied to him. JOe is not getting in won't be because of the market he played in or that he has a bland personality. It will be for what he did (and didn't do) on the baseball field. One big strike against him besides his lack of longevity at catcher (which Molina has) is the lack of power. If he had beefier home run and RBI totals then he would have a better chance, but he is a singles hitter. If your calling card is your bat and you are going to be a singles hitter you darn well better hit the 3,000 milestone. If not you just aren't making the HOF. Maybe I am silly? Or am I just being honest?

For anyone bemoaning the loss of Aaron Hicks he isn't all that and a bag of chips.

I have never seen so many "is he a HOFer" discussions about an active player.

I had a banana, Irish oatmeal and black coffee along with copious amounts of bottled water. DId a four mile walk, too. I missed on the donuts, but when I get to mom's I won't be missing out on the pastries after a late lunch!

I don't see how great defense cancels out a sub .200 bat. The fact is a player usually makes four or five trips to the plate every game. They might have a few put outs per game, but almost all of them are fairly routine and there aren't many opportunities for great defenders to make great defensive plays (only THEY can make). There could be 25 plate appearances (or more) in between those events great plays and even then he is competing against other CFs who can also make great plays. For him to be a player with a lot of value he is going to need to start hitting. What he is doing now to start every season is not acceptable. Something is amiss and he needs to figure out what it is because the all-world speed won't be there as time goes forward. At that point he will be another fast guy who hits .240 and doesn't get on base. Unless he becomes a better hitter and that is questionable with what I have seen.

That's nice, but if we are having a discussion about the offensive part of his game we need to be honest. I never made the comparison to MIke Trout, but that certainly happened. Baseball America ranked him the #1 prospect, not me or any poster here. A lot has been made about him for a bunch of years already and his offense just is not very good. Can he turn it on and become an above average offensive player? That is becoming harder and harder to believe for me. I am concerned about two things: 1. His approach and results from the batter's box and 2. The mounting of injuries Is it unreasonable for fans to have a discussion about their concerns on these things? Are we only suppose to praise him for his speed and simply "accept" this kind of offensive performance? Not me.

I agree with you. THis idea that his speed and defense is so marvelous that he makes an impact is all well and good, but I have to be honest about his bat and that is a large part of a position player's game. HIs bat is just not good. Period. I am wondering and waiting when it will come around because his sub .700 career OPS and .230something lifetime average at this point is making me question that part of his game. Not sure how it is a bad thing or a "negative thing" to discuss this honestly as fans. Are we to not discuss this because it is "negative"??

I didn't see where anyone was ripping him. I get what you are saying about slumps, but Buxton is a sub .700 OPS for his career right now. People are concerned (and rightly so) about his propensity for injuries and his unreliable bat.

And that is as far as I want to carry out this discussion here. If anyone wants to private message me to talk about this feel free to. This is about the rotation NOT Trevor May.

1. Twins Daily posters aren't high profile pro athletes 2. Most Twins Daily posters don't use their actual names. I use a handle because posting about my favorite baseball team is my hobby. I choose to keep that private because this is my leisure time and I don't need people analyzing what I do.... Because,3. I teach in public schools and I don't think teacher's or administrators should do any social media unless it is job-related. I think you take silly risks by putting your personal life out there. I don't do it. 4. If you are going to do it then be prepared to be judged for the things you say. Don't be overly sensitive if you put yourself out there and get ripped. As with teachers, public servants, law enforcement officers, professional athletes are scrutinized. i could die today and that isn't going to change. I don't make the rules, that is just how it is. He chooses to put himself out there and talks about his thoughts and beliefs then he has to own that. I don't need to own anything I say here outside of this forum and under my handle. I really couldn't give two craps about what Trevor May thinks or feels, but he is supplying us with this information about himself. Why, I have no idea? I just think it is silly. If I am a pro-athlete I am not doing it. for the same reason I don't do it now. IF he has the Jones to be a bro online then he should join a board and be anonymous, imo. Tweeting about what he's up sets him up for trouble. He hasn't been in a game since September 11, 2016. His lifetime ERA is over 5.00 and his WHIP is 1.429. Tweet all you want, but as a Twins fan and someone who also works in the public eye, I don't have to like his social media persona. Not my style.

He's saying that you, I or anyone who thinks he could do a better job training have no idea what we are talking about because he can't tell if Sano did or didn't because he didn't have 24 hour surveillance on him this winter. It's not our problem if people can't make simple inferences about someone's conditioning. I mean, do we REALLY need to have labels for "before" and "after"???? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bpLuAbSRc14/maxresdefault.jpg

He sure can, but I and everyone have the freedom to judge him based off that page. I think if you are working in the public sector (I do, taxpayers pay my salary) or are a professional athlete you really have to be more discerning than he is on his page (and probably a lot less active). Not a fan of what he did during the Sano controversy. He reached out to the accuser via a Tweet. I found that to be entirely inappropriate.

YOu think he'd be THIS active on Twitter if he were pitching? I'll tell you what, if he is then he needs a good talking to. https://twitter.com/trevmay65 Ridiculous. ​ ​​

Can't think of him as anything but a reliever.

We have to make a distinction here? Simple. Logan Morrison carries a few extra pounds, but he was signed to a one year deal, is 30 years old and isn't in Sano territory. Miguel Sano has been referred to as a potentially great player for years. I did not write the articles, I did not rate him, I did not draft him. A documentary was actually centered around him when he was 16. Is this HIS FAULT? No, it is not. Then again, it is not your fault or my fault (or anyone else's fault) he was hyped up so much. Watching his trajectory over the last four or five years he has gained plenty of weight and it isn't good weight. Aaron Judge weighs over 280 pounds and no one cares. Why is that? Because it is OBVIOUS that he is very well conditioned. The guy is making plays in the outfield Sano could never dream of making. Never mind that. This idea that the eye test is totally inadmissible stuns me to no end. People work out and train hard to look better. And why is that? So people could notice and (more importantly) to improve their overall health. Do people honestly believe nothing can be gleaned about conditioning from a guy's appearance AND myriad other factors? That is pretty stunning to me.

He hadn't progressed to this point by then. I was not concerned about his conditioning then. A lot of other people might have been, but I was not. Over time, he has managed to get me concerned about his physical state. This isn't rocket science. Anyone who carried a few extra pounds can attest. This isn't so much about the weight for me as it is the CONDITIONING. He can weigh 260 pounds and I could care less about that if he were built better to be a more well rounded player. Not sure why you are pushing so hard against people suggesting that he condition himself in a more meaningful way because he's most certainly not the same guy he was in 2015. He put on a good 15 to 20 pounds and it isn't muscle mass. Let's get real here. I know about where my ideal weight is and it took me until I was about 34 or 35 years old to get it. It is well above the BMI but then I have lifted weights for a long long time. I am just a teacher, not an athlete. If I can do it at 52 years old he should do a better job. Period. Stop.

I agree. I am not saying it is THE REASON. I am saying it is something he should address because only good things could come out of him being conditioned better to play. He was drafted as a shortstop and that went by the boards. The Twins are not to blame for that, but they might be to blame for not getting the message across as effectively. They are now trying to have that discussion about his conditioning and I don't blame them.

I would only tell you that the Twins probably want him to have more innings pitched than Tweets. He has had a variety of ailments that has held him back. That is what we know. Whether there is a connection between Tweets and video games to pitching in games is not what my statement was about. Sorry about that post. I carried out a discussion I had elsewhere with friends who think the Twins have messed him up on this board, Not a discussion I want to start here!