wsnydes

I agree. Maddon's reasoning, while not completely incorrect, is lame. Worrying about hitting a batter simply makes the pitcher's job harder. It is a part of the game, as it should be. Accidents happen, balls get away, hitters crowd the plate. All are a part of the game. When pitchers start hitting guys on purpose, then we can have that discussion.

Yes, you did acknowledge the cherry picking. That wasn't really aimed at you, my apologies for being unclear. Much of this debate, in my view, is based on what you feel is a HoF'er. To me, that is where these debates get fun if it is kept civil. If you're going to use ASG and awards and even rings as a basis of an argument, he doesn't overwhelm me with anything there aside from the rings. I don't tend to give much weight to a championship in a team sport to ones individual accomplishments however. Awards have flaws (see Dozier, Gold Glove). I'm not ignoring them, just not weighting them much. The average healthy season that you quoted for Morris in your first post is a nice one, but not what I would consider to be elite. That is when he was at his best, so I'm certainly not going to be wowed by his entire body of work. I'm not saying that he wasn't dominant. Clearly, he had his moments. Many of them in big spots. I can acknowledge and appreciate the greatness of a Jack Morris without believing that he was elite and HoF worthy. The CG's are nice, but he also had 67 fewer than another fringe HoF guy in Blyleven. Yes, he had four more seasons, but also pitched on mostly bad teams and still managed to win wherever he went. Bert also posted 32 more shutouts in those CG's. That's dominant to me and I still consider Bert to be fringe. Bert betters Jack in most every other statistical category as well, even when comparing their average seasons. Some people like a lot of guys in the HoF, and that's perfectly fine. I don't, which is also perfectly fine.

But it is cherry picking if you only point out things that support your stance and none that counter your position. For instance, he had Cy Young votes in 7 seasons, but never finished higher than 3rd. One of the guys that you listed that had more also isn't in the Hall (Mussina), who many feel was better than Tom Glavine who made it on the first ballot. Five AS appearances are pretty underwhelming for a HoF argument, especially if he's as dominant as you make out him to be. I like Morris. I think he was a very good pitcher that benefited greatly by being on great teams. Yes, he was part of what made them great, no doubt. He had the moxie that I'd want on any team regardless of how well he was actually pitching. IMO, he was on the 2nd tier of pitchers of his era. Very good, but not elite and thus not HoF worthy in my opinion. This is what makes sports fun though. People will have different opinions and the debates are pretty fun.

Agreed on the current state of a Dozier trade. At this point, it might make more sense to deal either Dozier or Gordon depending on who garners the larger return. If that isn't in the cards, I'm fine with allowing Dozier to walk. That's a different topic however and I'll leave it there. Aside from extending Buxton, Sano, Berrios and perhaps a couple of others, they still need to bring in some FA pitching in my opinion. I'd rather see the money spent there than on something that the organization several options internally to fill the void. Will they replace Dozier? Not likely, but it helps a potential log jam and also keeps cash free to acquire pitching. Yes, I agree that they could extend Dozier and those young guys, I just feel it wiser to spend that cash elsewhere to improve the team.

Its not that I don't recognize how good Dozier has been, because I know how good he's been. That's why I wanted him dealt for pitching. I'm looking from a big picture aspect. I think it's reasonable for him to seek a 4 year deal and he'll get paid handsomely with it. A midmarket team can't really afford to sign a guy to a deal like that and then still try to extend young and emerging core players like this team has and then still build most of a pitching staff. I want to do what I can to keep Buxton, Sano and Berrios and if that costs me one Dozier, then so be it. The previously mentioned three should be in a Twins uniform long past Dozier. For me, it has less to do with Dozier's age as it does keeping the young core together.

I don't want much to do with signing him to a multi year deal when he's on the backside of prime. A midmarket team shouldn't be making such deals, especially when they have several young core players to lock up long term and a pitching staff to rebuild. It doesn't make much sense long-term.

I think this team is at a point where they should gamble on locking up some of the core players. I'd lock up Buxton and Berrios for sure. I'm a little more hesitant on Sano. I want to see Rosario follow up this season with another strong season before talking deal for him. Locking up some or all of the core players should help extend the window of opportunity. It very well might backfire in the end, but I think it's worth the risk.

But Skip gave me the bunt sign!

Thanks for the hard work on these write ups, Tom. I look forward to seeing more next season!

That's me as well. Though, at this pace we could wake up and see the end of the game live.

This game is driving me to plead the 21st amendment.

Is the fifth like the center space on bingo card?

Good thing Buxton makes that bionic sound when he runs.

Yes please.

Yeah, he's not calling the knee high strike at all.

Jobbed by the umps again.

Lots of positivity in today's thread. I like it!

There certainly are pros and cons. If we are going somewhere for a show or something, it's usually less than half an hour drive so it's not a huge issue. Both of us grew up in northern MN, so we enjoy our space enough that it offsets any minor inconveniences that may exist. We're far enough out that its suburban, yet no so far out that it's too much of a hassle to get to something in either downtown.

Exactly. I like some hard physical work now and then too. It's nice to have a visual representation of what I've accomplished since my office life doesn't have that. I find that much more satisfying.

My wife's uncle was trying to convince me once of the virtues of living in a more urban environment in lieu of the suburbs. You don't have yard work. (I don't mind yard work) You don't have a driveway to shovel. (I really don't mind that either - snowblower) You don't have to pay servicepeople when something breaks. (I'm pretty handy and can do it myself) You can stop by the neighborhood market and get fresh food EVERY DAY! (The last thing I want to do every day after work is to go to the grocery store) Needless to say, his arguments didn't convince me of anything other than the fact that I'm living where I should be.

Hire a babysitter and let them worry about it while you watch the game in peace!

Seems like the appropriate prize in a box of Cracker Jack.

Unfortunately, not bringing in Gee right away was the turning point if the game. I agree that it's been good since.

Strategery

Sweet! I can listen to the last few innings at work in the morning!