KirbyDome89

If he is out of options then maybe? Idk, I still think if Arcia's SS defense is passable they'll take his bat but it doesn't really matter, both of them are net negatives.

Draft/develop has been bad, the "core," is massively flawed, but this FO continues to bring in guys who in the best case scenario hold up a floor that's quickly approaching rock bottom. In a lot of cases they just actively contribute to the losing.

But they weren't, and they're still not, hence the issue with handing outsized roles to marginal at best players. Bader was starting from day 1, no permutation of the above players struggling or getting injured elevated his role. He was brought in with the intention of playing exactly as often as he did, but hey, I guess I don't know ball so... Check the thread(s) if you'd like. I'm not digging back through them. The playoff roster? They didn't release him. I mean Gallo was still starting games through all of August and even played in early September before an "injury," derailed his season, and this was for a team that needed Ws. He had been unplayable since April. He slashed .163/.288/.374 with a 45% K rate from May 1st onward. People keep pointing at him because he spent months chewing up a roster spot and being terrible for a team that wasn't exactly firing on all cylinders for a majority of the season. Ditto for Margot, the fact that the Twins whiffed on Margot's inability to play CF and they couldn't find another sub replacement level corner OF within their own system doesn't excuse them for letting him set an all time record for PH futility and racking up starter level PAs for them, but again, I don't know ball... Yes, and part of the reason this team sucks is that they continue to commit valuable roster spots and playing time to players who suck.

I was a certified "hater," of the Bader signing. His resurgence with the bat proved me wrong, but his usage was exactly what had myself and others concerned. He was billed as the 4th OF/late inning defensive replacement off the bench at the time of the signing, in reality he received starter level PAs whether in LF or filling in for Buxton in CF. We had just watched this team give Gallo and Margot leashes that were infinitely too long, so Idk, maybe I "don't know ball," or maybe this organization has a track record of sticking with vets well past their expiration date. Right now one of Arcia or Kreidler is locked into the active roster. My guess is that Arcia's vet status gives him the inside edge.

Congrats to the Twins for finding a way to manipulate a defensive metric and feign defensive improvement. Ty Fance had a .678 OPS for the Twins last season. That's not remotely close to an average bat for 1B.

I think that's downplaying how bad this roster really is. The Twins were legitimately the worst team in baseball post deadline in 2025.

Fungible reliever > lotto ticket by definition, but I'd stop far short of proclaiming Bragg to be the former. Yes, you can find back end fodder anytime you want, the same way you can find a 1B who can't get on base, hit for power, or play defense anytime you want. That was the point. Yep, Keaschall looked choppy at 2B at times. I can see the athleticism playing well in a corner OF spot, and yeah, I think the opportunity for OF assists happen less frequently than fans realize. That said, guys are going to take extra bases on him. If Keaschall is an absolute stud as far as range goes, he can get away with a noodle arm. I mean Toronto started Varsho in CF during the WS, but Keaschall would have to be elite. I'm willing to buy into the "injuries create opportunities," theory and I wouldn't be shaping my 2026 opening day roster specifically for Jenkins/Gonzalez/Rodriguez, but that trio is pretty damn close, and they'll need PAs just like Keaschall. Keeping Keaschall in play on the IF, whether it's 2B or 1B is almost necessary with the way this roster is currently constructed. I don't see Clemens as anywhere close to a plus with the bat no matter where he's playing.

I don't think there's any amount of defense that can justify his bat. Culpepper on the 26 man to start probably isn't best for his development but yeah, he almost literally couldn't be worse than Kreidler.

Zero chance Wagaman is a AAA "depth," signing. Zero. Concur on Keaschall. I keep hearing about how he looked so much better in LF (Idk I didn't watch him play in the minors) but he struggled making throws from 2B so who knows what that looks like in the OF, plus the grouping of prospects you mentioned. My guess is Keaschall stays at 2B, Clemens/Wagaman platoon at 1B, and Bell is locked in at DH. I hate that. $7M of your limited budget for a DH who isn't a good hitter on a roster full of DH candidates is terrible resource allocation/roster building. Another platoon where both sides struggle, even in "favorable," matchups is a disaster waiting to happen without even accounting for the poor defense. Keaschall looked awkward at 2B. You could've given him 1B and used the money/roster spots to actually improve the team, maybe even beyond this year.

"It's not hard to see what the Twins see in him." Eh, it kinda is. Doesn't get on base, doesn't hit for power, and doesn't play defense. Oh, and they gave up a lotto ticket for him when they could've just claimed him (or some other version of him) off waivers. Wagaman hits from the right side so they can deploy another awful platoon; can't wait to watch that.... I think subtracting Larnach to guarantee Kreidler a roster spot and moving Clemens to 2B for a Bell/Wagaman platoon (if that's the sequence of events that plays out) actually makes this team worse. Kind of impressive when you consider how bad the roster was to begin with.

Brooks Lee the AS? Can we get a season where he isn't sub replacement level before we start comparing him to guys who were actually productive?

Brooks Lee might not even be a decent utility IF off the bench if he can't figure out how to at least be a passable hitter. He looks stretched at SS, Idk about 2B. No team remotely serious about competing is giving up a roster spot for that profile.

People don't seem to understand how talent deficient this roster really is. The Twins were legitimately worse than the White Sox for the last 2 months of 2025, that doesn't happen just because you sold the top end of your bullpen.

Chicken or the egg I suppose. I'm happy to cede that if Falvey continues to insist on wasting what FA dollars he has on quantity over quality I'll start rooting for high pre arb numbers too

Yeah, I believe this team can and should spend more than the 2026 payroll they're tracking towards. Also, yes, spending should be trending upwards just to stay in that 17-20th range. A sub $100M payroll a la Cleveland or TB is embarrassing, and the notion that this ownership group can't support a below average payroll is total bull****. Trevor Larnach at $4M isn't a problem. Trevor Larnach, the plodding defender who is best situated to be a DH but lacks a consistent enough bat to use him at DH is a problem. The arb status of Lewis, Lee, Wallner, Miranda, Julien, Martin, ect isn't nearly as concerning as their regression or outright failure to produce. To me that's the difference between 2023 and last season, not 7 vs 10 pre arb players.

Which massively contradicts the claim that the debt is a result of baseball operations (despite ownership insisting that's the case) and the notion that payroll at that level can't be supported.

Eh, I just disagree that the lack of FA success drove the club to stagnation. Vice versa I'd say. I'm not fixated on the number of pre arb players. Guys like Lee, Wallner, or even Lewis might not make it through arbitration, not because the Twins can't afford them, but because they might not be deemed worthy of even their modest salaries a la Larnach. Inexperience or youth doesn't necessarily correlate with production or actual talent. Agree to disagree at this point.

Concur that BBTV needs to be taken with a massive grain of salt. The swap(s) felt like quality for quantity and the As need quality, YMMV. I too dislike the Bell signing, and I feel that a third attempt at competing with this "core," is poor decision. Falvey couldn't sustain/supplement and open contention window that he was essentially handed. I have zero faith in his ability to oversee a rebuild. Idk if there was a third option in that poll but I fully understand why some would choose the status quo over a rebuild with the current FO calling the shots.

Who is asking this team to spend like NY? I'm tired of these strawman arguments every time payroll comes up. We all understand that this club won't be a perennial top tier payroll. Yeah, they can't follow the LA or NY blueprint to success. My point is that they haven't been attempting to do so. In fact, the Twins haven't done much of anything. They've basically sat on their hands for 3 years now and their only real bout of activity was to do a partial tear down. That's not how the "big boys," operate. NY, LA, Philly, ect aren't making insignificant moves at the fringes and trotting out a failing core year after year. They aren't sitting out entire trade deadlines while in contention. They aren't waiting around entire offseasons just to sign Jay Jackson types. They aren't overly reliant on a poor development system. They aren't attempting to build an entire bullpen while convincing themselves they can contend in a bad division. The Twins have been stagnant, and when they have moved, it's been mostly half measure type transactions. Harper is an interesting example. Philly signed him as a corner OF, and he moved to 1B. The Twins roster would be better off if Larnach or Wallner were able/allowed to do the same thing. Instead, we'll watch Kody Clemens and (hopefully not much of) Josh Bell play 1B. Are the Twins settling for crumbs at 1B because as the downtrodden proletariat they're resigned to that fate, or did poor development, poor roster construction, and a delusional belief in production coming elsewhere lead them to think they could get away with that duo (or Ty France) at 1B? Harper vs. whomever sits at 1B for MN isn't apples to apples. We all know the Twins aren't going to go out and get Bryce Harper, but Ty France (or Josh Bell) aren't the Teemu version of the same thing. They're a symptom of the above issues. Josh Bell was literally Cleveland's prize offseason signing just a few years ago, so yeah, Idk. I don't really want to be Milwaukee; constantly trying to maximize the trade value of good players. The Twins don't have to do that.

If the Twins had somebody of Soderstrom's quality, and swapped him along with Jenkins for the above quartet fans would (rightfully so) revolt. That just seems like such a lopsided swap as far as talent goes, not to mention the financial burden Sacramento/Vegas would have to take on.

I quoted the whole post and even bolded the "without the money," part. The supermarket analogy is an oversimplification. I can boil a pack of ramen in my kitchen, that doesn't mean I'm attempting to operate like a fine dining establishment even though we're both technically cooking. Eh, I care about how much they're eating if they're going to cry poor and insult the intelligence of this fan base. "Thin," is relative. If you own a convenience store, the difference between $50K or $60K annually is huge. The difference between $50M and $60M is far less impactful, especially for billionaires. I just can't listen to an ownership group that's top 3-5 in all of MLB in terms of net worth cry about how they've been too generous with a payroll sitting near the bottom third and continuing to come in below their publicly declared allocation goal. It's pathetic, and that's before we even start to get into the how or why they find themselves in such an allegedly rough revenue situation.

I mean, go back one more year and it's the Twins with the high 80s win total and the other two checking in with win totals in the 70s. Idk if either team is building. Cleveland is shopping Kwan, and he's far and away their 2nd best offensive player, and the drop off is steep. Even with him in the lineup, that's a really poor position player group, and their pitching (particularly their SP) is massively overrated by Twins fans. Their bullpen obviously took a major hit as well. Detroit? Idk, maybe. What's the difference between them and KC? Their LH ace stayed healthy? They cratered in the 2nd half last year. That's kinda my point, all these clubs are slightly different variations of the same mediocre template. It wouldn't shock me at all if the Twins don't finish within 10 games of either Cleveland and/or Detroit. They're definitely more of a low floor/high ceiling club. They could completely implode with a patchwork bullpen and position players that can't hang onto a roster spot. They could also could get a bounce back season from Ober, better health from Pablo, and just enough offense to let that SP group keep them in contention for the division. Again, that's not an endorsement of that path. That's a pretty pathetic goal.

100% agree that this organization is pandering. Disagree that the division is out of reach. I'm not advocating for this club to push all their chips in, but Cleveland and Detroit shouldn't scare anybody. They're middling clubs (just like the Twins) who are relevant only because they've been blessed to be grouped in the central with other middling/dysfunctional/cheap organizations.

Honest question, how have the Twins been attempting to operate like the big boys? The Mets didn't want Bader as a 4th OF but the Twins were more than happy to give him a starting role. Philly sent Clemens packing, welcome to MN buddy. LA paid the Twins to take Margot off their hands. These are just recent team interactions, but the point is the Twins continue to attempt to plug roster holes by signing bounce back type vets. 1B and a true 4th OF spot have been a revolving door. Before that it was a slew of cooked SPs filling out the 4th and 5th spot in the rotation. Teams serious about winning, all those you mentioned above, are constantly plugging holes with replacement types like Josh Bell, hoping to prop up a crumbling "core." The Twins have failed to deliver on the development side for sure, but they've compounded that issue by continuing to invest minimal $$ and maximum time into players that have no future with the club. Their only playoff appearance in the last 5 years required a historically bad division (even by AL Central standards) just to reach 87 wins. Now they're looking to run back essentially the same squad that collapsed each of the last 2 seasons. I can't imagine any of the heavy hitters you mentioned above selling that level of complacency. Is it the Correa signing? Is that the only outlier here? How many of the big boys are paying a team like Houston to take him? Toronto has sat through some pretty lean (relative to salary) George Springer years. I'm sure there are similar examples for LA, Philly, and both NY squads. Maybe we should define what the stuffing of pockets entails because I don't for one second believe these owners aren't eating first. I'm not going to pretend to know how these valuations are estimated, but if you're attaching half a billion dollars worth of debt to the team I'd imagine that tanks it's value a bit right? Toronto isn't a huge revenue team, they're just maxing out a competitive window. They're closer to MN than they are to Atlanta or Houston in your second tier. We can work from the bottom up too. TB, Cleveland, Sacramento, Miami, Pittsburgh, and Milwaukee won't spend. You can add teams like the White Sox, KC, Cincy, and Washington too as clubs that, for one reason or another, shouldn't be spending more than MN. That puts the Twins basically where they've sat for the last decade; somewhere from 20th to 17th. I guess my bar is higher, but to me that's bare minimum, especially during what was supposed to be a window of contention. I just can't celebrate this club having a below average payroll. Twins fans have been conditioned to accept less. It doesn't have to be this way. Same deal with the Forbes valuations, but the Twins revenue was marked at $342M in 2023 and $324M in 2024. Payroll was reported at $162M and $154M respectively. Each season they spent roughly 47.4% of revenue on payroll, which is below their stated "goal," of 50-52%. More importantly though, how are they "investing beyond what revenue can support?" Where is that $170-$180M going annually? I understand there are operations costs, but that'd be an insanely high What about the additional spending required to run a deficit? Like I said, they're eating first.

I'd love it if they came with the receipts on that one.... What a load of bull****