USAFChief

And didn't have Liriano.

The analogy was from the post I responded to, in your post to me... I've acknowledged elsewhere Bumgarner is still available, but they'll need to overpay for him, just as they would have Wheeler. Perhaps by more, since supply has now dwindled. Also, IMO, Bumgarner is riskier than Wheeler, but again I acknowledge that's just my opinion. Ryu has pitched only 740 innings across 6 MLB seasons. He certainly pitched well last year, but I struggle to consider him "impact pitching," given his inability to stay on the field. YMMV, of course.

From the above example, if you've already stated you need a house, you value the house at $375K, but the bidding reaches $472K, and there are limited houses for sale, you either pay the $472, or you sleep on the street. Perhaps it's not the bidding that's out of line, it's your valuation. Or your aversion to sleeping on the street isn't as strong as you imagined.

Are you arguing the Twins couldn't afford Wheeler? If so, I disagree. If not, what's your point?

The Twins stated goal for this winter was adding "impact pitching." How do you propose they do that, at this point? There's two FA impact pitchers left...Cole and Strassburg...and one maybe, Bumgarner. Cole/Strassburg are pipe dreams. By your argument, the Twins shouldn't overpay Bumgarner either, but somebody will. So the Twins will have failed to meet their stated offseason goal.

By the front office's own declaration, the Twins will target "impact pitching" this winter. There were 2 pretty sure thing "impact pitchers" on the free agent market to start the winter, Cole and Strassburg. Both are still there, but I'm pretty doubtful either end up in Minnesota. There was one guy who has one season of what's probably "impact pitching" (2018), and the stuff to think he has a good chance of becoming consistently well above average. That's Wheeler, who's gone. And there was one guy who certainly was an impact pitcher, but hasn't been recently. He possibly will be again...2019 was encouraging, from a peripheral standpoint, but there's a lot of miles on that arm, and he's no sure thing. That's Bumgarner. I don't consider Keuchel an impact pitcher. At all. And i don't think there's much reason to believe he'll become one in the coming years. He'd be no better than third on the current Twins staff, and the current Twins staff is two deep. So Falvine are down to one candidate. One. By their own standards for offseason needs. There is a possibility a trade could occur, but I can't even think of any "impact pitching" that might be for sale. And if it is, there'll be a line of teams bidding for it, just like the free agents. Plan on spending 2 of the Twins top 4 prospects, minimum, including one of Graterol or Balazovic. So the only realistic chance, at this point, is signing Bumgarner, and hoping he performs like he's 5 years younger. I'm not optimistic.

I suppose it's inevitable, and perhaps even warranted. But a big part of me hates this. The nets definitely impact viewing the game.

My least favorite whiney phrase: "trying hard." First of all, you don't know they did, even by your own definition. Second, more importantly, "they tried hard" is a fancy way of describing failure. The end result of trying hard and failing is...failing. Exactly the same as not trying. Exactly. And spare me the "lots of FAs dont work out" line, too. Unless you believe Falvine made zero effort to sign Wheeler, because they believe he will fail, that's just post mortem rationalization. If they DID "try hard" then they believe he will be successful.

criticisms in the eyes of some. Just like we'll see what are considered excuses by others. It's another failure to address the pitching, if you ask me. "Circumstances" matter not, in the end.

One of 29 that won't get him. Finishing 1st of those 29, or 5th, or 29th, is exactly the same. Exactly. The. Same. "Well they tried" is both tired, and meaningless. It has zero value. None.

The post I responded to specifically mentioned outperforming Chapman, and being a "key contributor" to a playoff race. As for the rest, I certainly would love to see the Twins trade for Chapman, but at no point in this thread have I given any indication I think that's even a remote possibility. I don't...at all. Why would Oakland do that? But if they were...I certainly don't agree that any of Lewis, Rooker or Kirilloff would stand in the way, or be too hefty a price.

It's certainly possible Rooker gets some run in 2020. I stand by my opinion he won't be a key contributor, nor will he outperform Chapman. Kirilloff hasn't appeared above AA (where he put up a .763 OPS). Lewis isn't even that advanced.

None of Kirilloff, Lewis, or Rooker will be "key contributors" to a 2020 playoff run, and NONE of Kirilloff, Lewis, or Rooker will "have a better bat than Chapman in 2020."

Maybe we can get Bregman too. Trade Rosario and some A/AA flotsam/jetsam.

you can say that again. Hahahaha I kill me. For the record, you posted the same comment 11 times. No worries ... not even a TD record.

Santa hasn't pitched well for years. I'd rather have Wheeler.

Then the Twins will never be in on top and 2nd tier free agents. The "environment" hasn't changed in years, and I strongly doubt it will change any time soon. FA pitching costs a lot of money. Either pay it, or don't expect to sign FA pitching, ever.

Compounding the urgency for adding pitching this winter is the poor FA class next winter. Things can look different a year out, but as of right now, there's not much help available next winter.

Donaldson would look fantastic standing at 3b in a Twins uniform next spring. Pushing Sano to first base is a bonus.

I'd do that yesterday.

But they will occasionally put out a quality product at whatever dumb name their stadium has this year. "Betty's Really Neat AirBNB Field at ReCyCl Aluminum Can Recycling, Inc Stadium" per source: http:www.bidhereforWSStadiumnamingrights,com Local fans already referring to it as BRN'd out ReCC.

Yes, please. I don't really want Romo back, but they absolutely should add quality and depth to the bullpen.

Sell Lewis while there's still a whiff of high first round magic pixie dust in the air.

https://www.si.com/college/2019/11/15/minnesota-pj-fleck-big-ten Really nice article from SI.

In all seriousness, whether you like Fleck's schtick or not, there's no denying his teams tend to be well coached. Few mental mistakes, few penalties, willing and able to throw and run the ball when appropriate. Apparent "buy-in" up and down the roster. Confident, decisive players. He and his staff appear to be able to identify underrated recruits with more talent than stars. There's more to this than slogans and bluster.