DocBauer

I can't comment on Harmon or Bert as even at 54yo, and a Twins fan since about 5yo, I simply don't have the recollection of those guys being TWINS. And while I was aware, as a youngster, of various Twins traded or lost to new-found FA, it didn't really register in my brain back then. Tori hurt a LOT! And I recall writing a piece here on TD a couple years ago how his loss was a domino effect that really hurt the Twins in various ways from rushed promotions to even being part of the Santana trade, etc. Wish theee was an easy way to find it. I remember thinking it was semi-smart, LOL. Smalley being traded hurt as he was one of my favorites as a kid. Butch hurt too. Mourneau and Cuddy were also very painful.

I don't really want to go down this rabbit hole again, but the answer would be no. A 200G season is a straw-man arguement at this point, and not reflective of my previous statements, nor those of the OP. HOWEVER, should MLB, for whatever reason, suddenly change formats and play a 200G season, I'm sure the penalties for similar future transgressions would amount to 100G, or half the season. That penalty would cover either a season, or parts of 2 seasons. Speaking hypothetically, should that change happen mid-penalty for a player, said player should not face additional time as his suspension was based on the corresponding season length at the time of "sentence". And this comes right back around to my thoughts and those in the OP; Pineda, in this case, could/should have his games missed in a shortened season adjusted to reflect the percentage of games missed, which was the original intent of the suspension. If...and I sure hope this doesn't happen...baseball was closed down for the entire 2020 year and resumed in 2021 with a full slate, the arguement could be made that all penalties, Pineda's included carry out fully based on a new 162G season.

I agree with you in theory. Though I would argue this is the type of re-build of a non-successful/competitive team. In all sports, we have seen teams hit walls due to age, injury, payroll, etc, where a re-tool either doesn't cut it or is simply not viable. There is an interesting article over at VIKINGTERRITORY that opinions Spielman and Zimmer, (the Vikings in general), are in fact beginning a re-build. One that Zimmer and Spielman both hope, in theory, shows enough promise via player development, coaching changes, the draft and FA to equate to contract extensions. It's something I'd suggest anyone/everyone read. I found it interesting and well worth the time.

At this point, I'd leave Hendricks out of the equation simply because he's been gone so long. In the long run, the Twins may win the Pressly deal, or at least break even. But I never liked the deal then as I felt the Twins would contend in 2019. I know some will jump on me for this, but as it turned out, I don't know you can say they really missed him with the way Duffey and May got it together. But yeah, I would have liked to have him. Anderson I don't get. Any maybe he will end up a 1yr wonder. I there was something about him they didn't like or didn't see. Which seems all the more strange when you remember they've kept Reed despite inconsistent results and no ML time as of yet. All in all, I really like where the pen is now and am very intrigued by a couple arms that seem close.

Late to the thread so I read through every post but didn't take time to "like" due to being late. We are clearly entering a re-build now, no question. I thought I'd just state my thoughts in bullet points. 1] Despite a poor ability to draft WR, and questionable ability (or refusal to address early enough) to draft OLm I think Spielman has done a good job. I feel he and his scouting department have, generally, drafted well and found quality talent, and done an excellent job with later picks and undrafted FA. Every GM misses on some of their choices. My biggest problem with his selections have been some of the mid round choices, 3-5. For every Hunter than have been too many Brothers, Beavers, etc. Maybe he gave in too much to Zimmer's preferences? 2] I think Zimmer is a fine defensive coach, and a decent head coach. I no longer feel he is a great head coach because I've just seen too many bad games, too many bad losses, too much "misdirection" of what the offense is doing, or how it was built. Is he just too stubborn? I don't know. But he'd better figure out a new approach, or new way to delegate, or he won't be around much longer, even if Spielman stays. Additionally, some of his players just li3ve him and would seem to be willing to run through a wall for him. Others simply don't seem to like playing for him. While you can't befriend everyone, or be loved by everyone, I'm starting to see a negative trend. 3] Regarding the player moves thus far: A] The Diggs move stinks! Even so, I think all the bridges have been torched the last 2 seasons...after getting a big payday...and thus the mk3ve makes sense. No animosity, but it sure feels like Diggs has entered perpetual primadonna territory. B] Griffin and Joseph hurt, but make sense considering salary, age and re-build mode. C] Rhodes has lost it, and his composure more than a few times. Waynes was underrated in my opinion but $14M?? No way. The loss of Alexander for such a small 1yr deal tells me he was out no matter what. Kearse seemed to feel the same way. Are we seeing a trend that relates back to Zimmer?? D] The Cousins move makes sense to me. It frees up $ and keeps a quality QB in place to build your team around. Quality starting QB are bard to come by. And unless you want a 2-4 win version of blow up/re-build, it makes sense to keep him in place, build around him, and look for a young signal caller over the next draft or two. It allows you to then plug your young QB in to a more optimal situation. E] Its nice to have a good K and P on your team. Can't argue with the re-signings here. But if you ARE in re-build mode, maybe you should use ,ate round picks, UDFA, and the waiver wire for auditions and spend your $ elsewhere. F] How on earth can you let a young DE who shows promise and provides depth at least like Weatherly leave??!! I am stunned by this! G] Letting Kline go, only 30yo, and your 2nd best OL, when your OL,is and has been, perhaps your teams largest Achilles heel is just ridiculous. We already needed 2 OL, now we need 3! I like a lot of things about Spielman and what he has done. But the rest of this off-season and the draft is going to define him, IMO. And Zimmer is going to have to work on re-inventing himself or he won't be back in 2021.

I guess I don't understand Smeltzer in the rotation vs Dobnak and no way Gearrin is in the pen. Confused on these points. And while it's the game and not you, kinda freaked about the slow starts by Donaldson and Odorizzi. Who wrote the program? A bunch of Cubs fans? Fun stuff though!

Agreeing with you on Pineda and a reduced suspension. His penalty, as are all in this case, is based on a normal 162G season, or as in this case, spread out over a pair of 162G seasons. But percentage of games missed with a abbreviated 2020 skews things. I hope the best for Hill. But I say again considering coming off surgery, his career "norm" of outstanding half seasons I still see him back and ready to go in July. That might be even more so considering the break happening here, as he rehab and ramps up. Dobnak should still have the inside track on the #5 spot. I don't think that changes, for NOW. He seemed to be the deserving frontrunner, and he and everyone else has to stretch out and "re-compete" when activities finally commence.

You know, I think you could almost compare Dobnak to Arraez, despite being a pitcher vs a position player. Arraez, while thought of decently, was never a TOP prospect. But all he did was perform. There was even debate as to whether he should be included on the 40 man last year by some. But his HIT ability and bat control is amazing, as we all have seen. And now he's a darling, and well deserved. Dobnak, though with less time in the system, does nothing but perform as well. He doesn't throw 96 or have a wipe out slider, etc, but be performs and even dominates. When he gets his shot, he does nothing but impress, though granted it was in a smaller SS. Dobnak just seems to knkw how to pitch, how to get outs, Stroman comparison or not. Do we not embrace his potential because he doesn't have the BIG ARM? Or are we just jaded from the Twins NOT producing much from the system for several years now?

I had forgotten about his re-signing! Not there is anything wrong with him or bringing him back but I did find that curious. Pensacola whenever baseball resumes? Or a shot at Rochester?

In reference to the good and bad of positional analysis posts, I offer the following: BAD: This stinks! Most of us have lived through various flu "pandemics" or severe warnings before. Thankfully, when all is said and done, we have all come through mostly unscathed. The loss of March Madness, the college baseball season, the CWS, spring football, spring games, and the start of baseball is devastating to all of us as sports fans. Not to mention the loss of income to travel destination cities and places that would host special events. (Like the CWS here in Omaha). And I feel especially bad for ushers, vendors and the such who may struggle at this time. I don't know if it's prudent or over-reaction, but the runs on simple household cleaners, paper products and packaged food is just nuts. One would almost think the end of days is near. And I find it ABHORANT that some people have used this time to horde product to make a profit off their neighbors. (Glad to see various companies and authorities have taken steps to quell this, shut down operations of such people, and hope prosecution or fines follow). GOOD: While all of this stinks, it is better to be proactive and safe rather than be sorry. And we will all weather this storm collectively as good people, Twins fans or not. We can all assist within our own communities, as well as right here as a special support group as TD family. And when this settles, I hope everyone just smiles a bit more, laughs a bit more, and appreciates a bit more having sports and regular life back again. I work for a telecommunications company that is taking steps to change hours, while taking care of their employees and their subscribers. My hours have changed as of today. And the one thing I really hope most/all of us can do in this down time is not only help, where we can, but spend any extra time with friends and family. We kind of joke about things like Netflix binges. But what about doing that with friends and family? Or play games together? I hope most of us can just take time that we may have to release stress by realizing all we have, and spending what time we have available with loved ones. (Not to mention yard work, house work, or honey-do lists, lol) We WILL all get through this. SIDE NOTE: Matthew Taylor made a reference the other day in a front page OP about 3 ways to consume baseball. It would be really awesome as a distraction, if someone would just set their computer or game system up for auto-play and post some results for us to just mess with. That's it. Nothing funny to say. Just God Bless everyone and hang in tbere.

So the best way to play him seems to be for the infielders to play way back, and the OF to play way in. No problem! You can't stop Arraez, you can only hope to contain him! Lol But seriously, I firmly believe theee is such a thing as "hit tool" which is often glossed over when we talk about things like power and speed and OB, combined with SO numbers and launch angle. (Less and less we talk about speed, which I think is sad). While it is absolutely hyperbole to speak of a young player like Arraez in comparison to Gwynn, or Boggs, or whoever, it's just really hard to look at his milb track record, and what he did last season, and his approach at the plate, and NOT compare him! Again, hyperbole...perhaps...but as Jimbo and Torv mentioned above you could absolutely watch Arraez at the plate scanning the defense and just deciding where he wanted to place the ball. And he did so at an amazing clip, while also maintaining plate discipline. He is just so much fun to watch.

I think it's safe to say RF is set and in very good hands for the next few years. We have no idea if everyone will turn out, or if everyone is actually kept, but Kirilloff, Larnach and Rooker will be looking at LF/1B/DH/4th OF for the time being. And that's a very nice problem to have. What I just can't understand, or wrap my head around, is how Kepler can have such a njce swing, make good contact, hit the ball hard, perform well against LHP, and still suffer continuously from such a low BABIP. It just doesn't make sense to me. Has he just been that unlucky? Does his swing just carry too many balls to the same location so defenses just play him better? Even a slight correction to the norm would seem to make him a STAR player.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't his final fWAR numbers skewed slightly downward due to his time spent in CF filling in for Buxton?

Personally, I think few believe Stroman is anything but an ACE. A nice pitcher, but not an ACE. There was a time, not so long ago, when pitching low in the zone, or having "heavy" stuff was considered a positive. "Pitching to contact", in regard to the "old" Twins mantra never meant let the other team get hits, but rather, throw strikes, mkve your pitches around, and let the hitter get themselves out. In the sudden new age of high barrel rates and launch angles, we are talking about velocity and pitching high so batters get themselves out. But at the end of the day, outs are outs. If Dobnak is more old school in his process, who cares. If he relies more on weak contact and grounders I'm all in.

A great post and a different way to look at the issue. While I absolutely do not want to play devil's advocate and compare suspensions, or the gravity of offenses and the such, the Yankees could have an argument as well. Please understand everyone, I am not speaking of "early parole", if you will, nor advocating anything. I am simply posing a debatable question for the Twins and other franchises simply because we are in somewhat uncharted territory here. I advocate nothing. It's simply an exercise amongst the various situations being present with a shortened/interrupted season. We could just as easily discuss how to balance a "fair" schedule for an abbreviated season. We could equally discuss how a 60 day IL affects a player and team. I'm just tossing out things to consider.

I'm sorry, don't get the confusion here. His penalty IS based on a 162 game season. The penalty for an abuse of any sort is a rounded off 80 games. Which is half a season. Not sure why MLB doesn't do 81G, maybe they just like a round number. And agree nobody should have to pay the monetary price twice, so we may agree on that. I just propose Pineda's penalty of games missed, without pay of course, should be based on the carryover to the second season, which will be abbreviated I'm sure. Again, I think we're saying the same thing monetarily. And if the season, hopefully, is only 20 games short, any reduction in Pineda's penalty is but a few games. I just think it's something to examine, but the idea may already be running its course at this time.

And I get that. But those days of suspension, as I just re-stated again above, lol, were based on days of a regular season or over 2 regular seasons in this case. We are not going to have a regular season in 2020.

And that's all I'm saying. NEVER said Pineda should get paid while being punished. Never said Pineda shouldn't be punished. Never said he should be credited for days all players are going to miss by a late start to the season, whether it be 20 days, 30 days, 40 days, etc. I am simply stating the Twins may have an arguement to have his remaining suspension days whittled down to reflect a shorter season, and thus an equivalent percentage of games missed as if the season were a full 162 games. His penalty, originally 80 games but reduced to mitigating factors, was based on a 162G season and spread out over 2019 and 2020. Fair. But once the dust settles and things eventually get going again, 2020 will not be a 162G season. The arguement is, therefore, his suspension should be reduced an equivalent amount of games to reflect the same % of games missed had both seasons been the traditional 162G length. Just seems fair and logical to me. Especially considering it could be as little as a week worth of action.

The change in velocity is also taking place at the milb level and has been for some time, IMO. Even going back to the last year or two of the TR regime SO numbers were increasing in the system. I'm not real savvy when it comes to including links and the such, but I'd reference anyone to look at my post in the MINORS section from a week or so ago. I found the 2019 Twins milb results to be very interesting.

No, Pineda does not receive credit for games missed that everyone else does. I'm stating there is precedent in regard to suspensions and how they are calculated. In the above reference, a ballplayer was suspended but couldn't have played anyway as he was injured. However, MLB didn't force him to become healthy and THEN begin his suspension. All this to mean there is, again, precedent in regard to the intent of the punishment. But to be more clear, Pineda is supposed to be suspended roughly 30 more games. (I'm rounding) Over a 162 game season, that would mean he is to miss approximately 18% of the Twins season. Now, the 2020 season is reduced by 1 month, approximately 20 games, and Pineda is still suspended for the same 30 days, that means he now must 21% of a now 142 game season. Which means he is arguably receiving additional punishment over and above the intended verdict. How is that fair? Especially when we've seen an example of a player being allowed to "serve time" while on the IR? Having Pineda's suspension reduced would seemingly be a small number of games unless the season is virtually halved. But then again, more time available to contribute is more time to contribute.

It's long been stated that ladies love outlaws and country boys. So that being said, Dobnak should be near the top of the list. Looks like he should be on the PBR circuit and not the mound.

We heard a lot of glowing things about Lewis, but I thought it was great how he wasn't the least bit intimidated by anything and didn't get down after a slow start and then suddenly started to hit/flash.

No, what I am saying is he was suspended a number of games. That number is also based on a 162 game format. Meaning his suspension also equals ascertain number of days, weeks, etc, or percentile of the season. When and if the season is shortened, technically, he is missing more games in the season, or a higher percentile of the season missed than the original punishment was intended for. Therefore, it could be argued he is technically being punished more than was originally decreed. There is a form of reference...I forget who now...where a player was suspended a couple years ago but was also injured. His time on the IR counted towards his suspension days. Coincidental sure, but it does fly somewhat in the face of the intended punishment design. It's a complicated issue, but I think the Twins would have a very valid arguement on a reduction to coincide with the length of the season and an appropriate percentage of games missed adjustment.

Interesting thought process here. The good get even better by getting even healthier. I think it's a valid point in the case of Buxton. I tend to disagree on Hill, however. He is outstanding when healthy. Unfortunately, a big chunk of his career, certainly the past few seasons, he's only ever healthy for about half the season. With that in mind, and recovering from surgery, I always felt like a safer, more practical return for Hill was about July. He basically becomes a quality mid-year trade acquisition equivalent. What could take place, however, is a shortened season providing a longer frame of impact from him. **Interesting idea in another thread was a shortened season should mean a shortening of the Pineda suspension. That would make sense to me, adjusting the percentage of games/time missed, otherwise he would actually be further penalized by missing a greater portion of the season than was initially laid down/intended in his punishment.

IMO Lewis is a SS, will remain a SS, and will be the SS of the future with Polanco and Arraez moving around in some combination that works best and makes the most sense. However, if Polanco via additional work and experience and his new throwing motion continues to improve defensively i could see Lewis slide over to 3B where I think he would be just fine. Why am I talking about Lewis in an OP about Buxton? Because he is mentioned above and because the two of them often seem to get mentioned in the same breath. With Lewis showing nothing to dismiss him from the infield, the focus should be on Celestino as a replacement/backup option sometime over the next year or so. In the meantime, there is Kepler, Cave and Wade to help fill in. There is also no reason Lewis can't first come up as a multi-position capable player who COULD do a nice job in CF. But again, IMO, there is just no need to focus on Lewis anywhere but the infield on a daily basis. I'd like to think playing deeper may have helped Buxton stay healthy lady year simply because he did make it to August. Thought I heard/read he had been working with Hunter some this off-season. I hope that is finally true and something I've been clamoring for the past couple of years. While we all want Buxton healthy for at least 140G, he will miss some time here and there, as does everyone. As I feel Celestino is a year away, I would be ecstatic if either Cave or Wade could rise up and prove themselves at least ML average in CF so Kepler could just stay in RF most days.