DocBauer

Thank you! That was the piece I was attempting to quote a page or two ago but couldn't remember where I had originally found it.

Just being real, Wheeler is a nice pitcher with a talented arm. But the reason he was in such demand, and got the contract and offers he received, had to do with a FB that consistently sits 94-97 and the hope of further upside. Does Odorizzi have additional upside? Maybe. I'm not sure. But I do know he's awfully good/solid the way he is. But he doesn't have Wheeler's velocity or a wipeout slider. This is all to say I like Oddo a lot and want him back. His $18M this year (rounded) is right in line with the other FA pitchers "below" Wheeler. Unless he, his agent, the Twins, etc, expect a huge blow up in values next offseason, he should be worth right about that $20M mark per. If it takes a bit more, OK. $25M per? I just don't see it at all. I think the Twins would like to keep him. He seems to want to stay. Berrios may be the priority at the moment, but I bet an extension is offered. May: I think he's for real. Can he be replaced? Technically yes. Should he be? No. Sign an extension. Adrianza/Gonzalez: I think Adrianza has the better chance of coming back. Marwin has a shot at a reduced salary. Both offer value for positional flexibility and decent offense. But neither should break the bank Cruz: LOVE the guy and all he has done. But he is absolutely a year at a time guy now, early extension or not.

When the leagues switched to 3 divisions and 1 wild card I was very pleased. When they added the 2nd wild card and 1 game playoff I was ambivalent, but it does make the 1 game "sudden death" playoff interesting. If you HAVE to change the current format...and I DO NOT think you have to or should, just stick with 6 teams, bye or no bye. But for goodness sake, getting to "pick your opponent" sounds like playground rules and is an absolute joke!

Hey now...some of us live in Nebraska. At least one of us does. Not naming names or anything.

Kid looks special. Like the word and glimpses of Balocovic as well. I applaud the FO in regard to being aggressive with prospects and challenging them. But the beauty is, we don't have to feel compelled to rush either of them.

I don't dislike Marwin. I don't know the man but don't recall ever hearing anything bad about him until this event. I want to believe he is a good guy who got wrapped up in something bad around him. I believe in forgiveness and second chances for people. I want to believe he truly is remorseful and regrets it all. But he was part of it for 3 years. He never said anything, that I can recall, after all of this broke until now. Why not? I will root for him because he is on my favorite team. I will root for him hoping he really is that good guy. I will root for him because I believe in those second chances I mentioned. I can only read the words, I wasn't there. And maybe I'm becoming a bit jaded as I get older, but I hear "sorry we got caught and are embarrassed now. Oh, and we're done." I honestly hope there is more to it than that.

This! (Though I would have had Ryu and Bumgarner swapped). I don't pretend to be a scout or an expert on the NL in general or the Dodgers specifically, but to dismiss Maeda as anything but a quality ML SP is a mistake. Now, he's not the #1 ACE SP everyone wants, but that doesn't mean he's not good. All the numbers I look at, and every report and opinion I read has nothing but good things. As to the bullpen, make up your own minds. But from what I gather, despite having a deep and outstanding rotation, the Dodgers have done little to amp up their pen the last couple of years. Hence, the move of Maeda there at the end of the season.

And Rortvedt by 2022 at the latest? And the solid and versatile Astudillo more than likely still around? Depth of talent is a fun problem to have.

Not inconceivable we could soon have the "good problem" roster crunch at catcher like we will soon have in the OF.

Jeffers really excites me. And not as a Garver replacement. But as an addition to Garver to maintain having the strongest and best catching duo in baseball.

Yes to the baseball reference numbers for Garver. Regression or not, I'd take those numbers any day. Not that I necessarily agree with that much regression. The Castro vs Avila comparison is interesting as they are similar players in regard to overall production, but are not the exact same performers category to category. Despite the results of almost 50-50 split time between Garver and Castro last season, and the time off/rest for both, I think it could easily be argued some of that was veteran vs youngster and Garver could easily increase his time behind the plate another 10-20% without some fatigue wear down. I think we're going to be just fine at catcher in 2020.

There is no accurate way to judge this trade right now. A year or two we could maybe assign a better grade. LA and the Twins are in a NOW moment. Boston is not. While this trade does not overwhelm me with immediate baseball fairy dust to believe the Twins just bought a WS, I think hope and expectation in regard to Maeda vs hope and expectation for Graterol clouds some opinions. Maeda is a very nice addition. He is not some also ran throw-in ballplayer. Not crazy about losing the pick, especially since short term results seem to indicate this FO knows how to draft, but it is part of the process. The $10M is to offset the biggest payroll in Twins history, and never before seen aggressive moves by the FO and ownership, and possibly assist in a mid-year acquisition. But yeah, they just got that tossed in to line pockets.

What did we learn? Everything is fluid. Graterol, with a lightening arm, is a TANTALIZING prospect! To think, even for a moment, that the Twins didn't like him is foolish. And he is talented enough, and young enough, that if nurtured and brought down the right path, he might yet turn out to be a good to fantastic SP. If he does, the Twins don't look so great here. At worst, he could be a good to great BP arm. And I am NOT disparaging Graterol or hoping for poor results or a poor career from him. But I was recently reminded about Prior and Alex Meyer. Prior had the perfect build, the perfect delivery, and was the next can't miss stud All Star, Ace, possible HOF SP. And he was done by about 25yo. Meyer was imperfect, but had real top of the rotation potential. There were even crazy comparisons as to him being a RH Randy Johnson given time. You just never know. Initially, after some setbacks, limited IP, the Twins decided Graterol, for NOW at least, felt he was a quality pen pitcher. Only time will tell if they were wrong. Other scouts and experts felt this would be his role. Maybe Graterol proves everyone wrong and becomes a stud. But TODAY, he is not. TODAY he is a lightening armed young pitcher with potential. And sometimes you give up potential and hope for something more proven and substantial and hope it turns out. The Twins did that.

Agree with your opening day roster as being the most practical one, even if it's not the best one, or short lived. I only say not the best because there is a decent chance someone shines above Wisler or Chacin but that pair makes the initial roster if they flash at all. Stating the obvious, the other guys have options and these 2 are make it or gone. Nothing wrong with that.

To be clear, like everyone I was enamored with Graterol's arm and his potential. Even as a power RP, he would have been nice to have around. There are 3 possible outcomes with Graterol: 1] He gets stretched out, eventually, and becomes a SP. 2] He fits better and stays in the bullpen. 3] Arm/shoulder injuries continue to flare up and he washes out. I doubt #3 happens. But with EITHER #1 or #2 happening, there is no guarantee how good he will be in either role. I wish him the best. But nobody KNOWS what his future holds, they can only speculate. But if you're going to acquire an addition for the club, you have to trade a talent to receive talent back. Holding on to some need or want to say "I told you so" 2 or 3 years from now still has no influence over improving the club for TODAY and a better shot at winning. Just kinda hate losing both the pick and Raley.

Please, no Take Three!

Mike has a valid point that ALL deals of this nature are ALWAYS pending medicals for everyone involved. (Deadline deals are different and often rushed through with the trading of reports). On the surface, they have done nothing wrong. But I agree with Carol, and others, that something isn't right when you look closer. His previous TJ is well documented and he is 100% recovered from that. His shoulder issue last season was frustrating, but not reported as anything long term. Kid was back at work and throwing bullets afterward. If Boston truly feels, now, that they overestimated his potential to stretch out to a starter, and they want the deal sweetened some, I could get it. But some sort of "we're not sure about him being a SP so we want another top 10 player IN ADDITION" just smells bad. If they had asked the Dodgers or Twins for an additional prospect in the 11-30 range, or similar, I think most of us could buy that, or at least go along with it. We've seen that in amended deals before. This smells of either incompetence, or regret and posturing to me.

Just a complete farce the way this was handled by Boston. Disappointed the trade didn't go through but happy to have Graterol back. Really unfair to the guy the way this was handled. Glad the Twins didn't give in and add more to the deal. Another top 10 prospect when technically the deal went through LA? Please!

Honestly, quoted you without remembering who you were speaking to directly, so forgive. Berrios declined an extension last year. OK. As of now he has not declined an extension this year. Maybe he will. "Reports" say talks are amicable and the arbitration process was not contentious. Reports also say talks are ongoing, while apart, which is why I'm not going nuts over this hearing. Maybe, maybe Berrios will follow the Bauer concept of betting on yourself yearly. Personally, I find that ridiculous in regard to guaranteed contracts, but whatever. Maybe, maybe Berrios is banking on being productive and healthy long enough to escape the whole arbitration and year to year process because he wants to escape Minnesota for a big market city. I also find that ridiculous because if I were his agent I'd be looking for at least a little security in case of injury, if nothing else. He is young, and part of a winning team, who has a wide open window. He's seen a few teammates lock up deals. He's seen the team be aggressive with recent contracts and additions to make the best team they can. They just made a major trade following a franchise record FA signing. Personally, I think he's smart enough to bet on himself and his future, while not being short-sighted enough to bet on "what if" tomorrow and is holding out for more but willing to sign. What that magic number is I don't know. Are we talking something like 5yrs and $1M per apart or $5M? None of us knows. But if talks are truly ongoing and cordial, then something will get done. And $3K+ will mean nothing. I feel this FO is smart enough to know what they have that they will be realistic but not be "cheap".

I'd really like to post this in about 3 different threads, but will probably just stick with this one. What really irks me is the way this is playing out not just for the organizations,and fans, but for the players themselves. I love baseball! I enjoy the NFL, but not as much as I used to, for various reasons, but that is a different discussion. In MLB, I do not take sides in regard to players vs owners. In the universe that is professional baseball, I side with minor league players, and changes I see as an absolute MUST. We're I an owner, I'd be looking at better treatment, conditions and salary for the lifeblood of my franchise. I would be mkre than willing to thumb my nose at other owners for how I did things because it's not only my franchise, but it's the minors, not MLB. But when it is the BIG STAGE, I don't take sides. I find it oddly curious when others do. We argue about billionaires vs millionaires. We argue about MLB players earning well over 500K per season, with additional perks, and arbitration numbers that go in to the millions. And then we harumph when owners when owners when "only" spend X number of millions. It's really kind of crazy when you step back and look at it all. FWIW, never thought an owner should be an owner if his ego and sense of fun didn't allow him to push the envelope. Otherwise, why own a team in the first place? Ken Rosenthal on MLNetwork commented, as others have, that thjs deal probably still goes through. So my rant may prove worthless. We all know enough to realize there are sometimes questions and delays. But this feels abnormal to me. Maybe it was early reporting? But I'm kind of siding on the retorts from the union on this one. Players are caught in the ceasefire. What if the Twins are dumped out of this? What do they do next? Does Graterol feel welcome comimg back? Is he offered up again in a different deal? The more I look at this, the more frustrated I get at how it has been handled, especially on the Boston end. I feel like some amateurs have been brought in to muck things up.

In my own mental handicapping, I've had him ranked lower. Admittedly unfair when I look at his age and reflect on his first half of last season. I see a projected 1st round selection with a major school scholarship offer and the best curveball in his draft class and I just expected/wanted more. Reading this report, his growth physically, increased velocity and better K numbers and I become optomostic. Fair or not, I'm waiting/hoping for a real breakout 2020 where we see dominance across the board before I feel comfortable putting him in the top 10.

This. The Twins don't dislike Graterol. He has a very talented arm with a huge potential future in front of him. And he's still very, very young. He might yet be a fine to great SP if nurtured a bit. But the FO brain trust sees him as a power BP arm. And that is still valuable, to the Twins or Boston. But the prospect cost to bring in a quality starting SP is not some low level flier, or a couple of them.

Absolutely. And I would do nothing to hold back his development. But surely he is the kind of player/prospect who will be in the lineup almost daily. Let him play all 3 spots and see where he settles in, I say. For various reasons, some guys are just better or more comfortable in LF vs RF. The foot placement and action at 1B is different than the OF to be sure. I just hope they don't restrict him too soon.

Addition: The one thing about Rooker I don't like us his position use. Milb is for player development. I just can't believe he was never used at 1B last year. Players do tend to gravitate to certain positions and settle in there. But he should be learning both corner spots and 1B for now. Look how much positional flexibility aided the Twins roster last year. In ST last year, the Twins even worked Raley in CF to see what he could do, even on an occasional basis.

Really wish we could combine this thread with the one I wrote a couple days ago. I concentrated on WAR of the past 4 rotation staffs and where they ranked in MLB and the AL each year. Really like the look at K%. Am also wondering now if we should also look closer at WHIP.