DocBauer

Very excited from everything I've heard/read about Urbina. But even as someone who closely follows the draft and the entire milb system, it's just impossible to get excited about a bunch of 16-18yo kids until they get stateside and we see them in the system here. Hope for the best and wish them all great success, just hard to follow them and know who is who at this point. But this is a great article and really appreciated!

Two of my favorite all timers. The precursor to the modern day offensive SS and the beginning of the "soul patrol". Smalley is a definite add. By OP context, much of a fan as I am, career WAR would leave Lawton out. But underrated, yes.

Sort of feel like Tapani was Radke before Radke came along. Very consistent and a stalwart for a few years.

I would include Knoblauch and Gagne for sure. Not sure about fWAR vs WAR...these things confuse me...but both had over 20+ WAR in their careers. I think we sometimes forget about Knoblauch because of his late career finish with the Yankees, and we dismiss Gagne because his offense was only OK, but each was a stalwart for many years.

Oh this could be fun! The fWAR of 20 could be tough as it may eliminate a few good candidates and also provide homework some of us just don't want to do, LOL. I really like your initial list and would make a couple quick comments. Mack: Really glad you mentioned him. He was just so good and did so much for the Twins in his limited time with them. Boy I wish we could have him, as he was, for another season or two. Tovar: He was before my time, but I've read enough and heard enough to know who and what he is and did. He needs to be in the Twins HOF. Koskie: We still lament, years later, about the concussions to Mauer and Morneau and what might have been, even though both remained quality ballplayers for a few years after the fact. But few mention Koskie. He was a virtual shell of himself and never really did recover. And it's a terrible shame because to those who watched him, he was beyond just good offensively and defensively. Radke: I think he is simply undervalued, not forgotten by any means. He was just so consistent, and meant so much on some good and not so good teams. While he wouldn't qualify as a true ACE, he just took the ball and delivered time and again until his arm fell off. Mauer: Making this simple as we have debated him already too often. He was a victim of circumstance, despite his greatness. It was never his fault his RBI numbers weren't what some wanted. You have to have guys on base. At times, he didn't have someone hitting behind him. He probably should have hit 1-2 much more in his career. Just because he was a strapping, athletic man doesn't mean he was born to be some 30HR power hitter. But so many wanted him to be that. It was never his fault, like Koskie, like Morneau, that concussions robbed him of some of his greatness. In all my years watching baseball I've seen some truly great catchers. I've seen Bench, Boone, Fisk, Pena, Carter, Piazza, Rodriguez and others. Some were great defensively, some great offensively, some managed to be both. There was a stretch of about 7yrs where Mauer did both, and put up numbers that are actually historical in the annals of MLB before he was injured. IMHO, he should be in the HOF. He may end up being the Oliva equivalent at catcher, which would be unfortunate.

Going to further trumpet that Morneau and Mienkiewicz should have been mentioned as well. Going to agree with jkcarew was, overall, the best 1B in Twins history. Had Justin escaped the dreaded concussion curse that some Yankee loving voodoo queen placed on the Twins, it might be a different story. Still feel Herbie was robbed of an MVP, at least a couple Gold Gloves and should have been selected to additional All Star appearances. To this day, 37yrs later I am still bummed and burning he lost the ROY award to the great Cal Ripken. Ripken beat Hrbek in doubles, homers, and had 1 more RBI. But he also did so with an addition 131 AB. Hrbek had him by over 37 points in BA, 46 points in OB, 10 points in SLG, and 56 points in OPS! And Kent did this for a 60W team while Ripken played for an Orioles team that won 94G. Now, at the time, both guys were rookies. But I've always felt there was a media and east coast bias involved. And being a life long Twins fan, I think I'm allowed to have my own bias. LOL Sano may never be anything more than average defensively at 1B. But with his offensive potential, I'd take that easily. At not yet 27yo, experienced, surprisingly athletic for such a big man, I see no reason why he can't be at least better than average at 1B as long as his new work ethic stays in place along with health. He's played SS and 3B dealing with line drives and choppers since he was a teen. Given time to adjust and work on his feet at the position, why on earth can't he become a solid 1B defensively?

I was born October of that season. Hopefully I wasn't the cause/curse of the loss to the Dodgers, lol. My father, who I often mention, was an instant Twins fan when they moved to Minnesota and remembers that team, and its stars, well. I became a fan at about 5yo, taking in a double header with my dad's little league team along, and slowly learning the game from that age on from his transistor radio while he worked around the house, or listening in the car. My greatest regret as a Twins fan is that while I know some of the names, and others that followed like Hisle and Bostock, etc, those early days didn't etch themselves greater in my memory at the time. My memory is pretty darn good from about the mj d 70's on, however.

BTW, the quotes are fantastic!

Really disappointed in Bedrosian and that grounder that Gagne didn't get to. But what about Aggie getting Cruz like that? Wow! But seriously, this is very neat! The only problem is, I'm rooting for both teams!

Knoblauch sprang to my mind originally because of the word/term "hitter". Not OPS leader, power hitter, most dangerous bat, etc. But Knoblauch would be in my 2nd 5.

Sounds like a blast! One question, are you running each game a single time through the simulation? Or are you running it multiple times and taking the delta?

Great question. I will attempt to answer. First of all, while I enjoy the discussion, we have a very open-ended discussion here, IMO. There are countless ways to grade and measure in the game of baseball, including WAR, fWAR, OPS, OPS+, etc. I don't pretend to understand them all, and I know here at TD and in the baseball community debates range as best ways to measure/rank. That being said, with all due respect to HOF greats like Carew and Killibrew, trying to compare them as "hitters" is very vague and open as they are completely different types of hitters/ballplayers. Both great, but very, very different types of players. Now, I wouldn't put Knoblauch in the first 5 but I'd have to consider him strongly for my second 5 based on 7yr with the Twins in which his quad slash line was: .304/ .390/ .418/ .808. Those are outstanding numbers, even though his total OPS is dragged down a bit by having pop but not great power. He also had 276SB in his 7yrs, scored 100+ R 4 times, 80+ twice and 78 his rookie season. (4uns, like RBI, can be somewhat subjective in value, but they still have value and the player still performed at such a level to allow those numbers to happen). So to me, when I look at those numbers, that production, over 7yrs I've got him as a pretty special player for an extended period of time.

I was confused at first as I took the lead too seriously and literally thought best HITTER. And then I saw Killibrew instead of Knoblauch and realised the direction we were headed. This is like a 5 headed Twins Mt Rushmore, and I know I'm quibbling here, but any sort of order is hard to argue with when you have the likes of Carew and Killibrew on the list. One can't match the other for their hitting and the other can't match power and production. Second 10 would have to include Hrbek, Morneau, Allison and Knoblauch. Not sure who my 5th would be. Interesting, no matter how deep, talented and relatively young our current Twins are, 10+yrs from now, is Sano the only one who gets mentioned in an article like this?

Like everyone else I also hope your pessimism is wrong. Just tossing out a couplethings I've heard and learned today: 1] Who knows how accurate these reports are, but it has been reported that taking the preventative steps now in our country have provided positive results elsewhere to slow/diminish the Corona virus. Let's hope this is true, and NOT just for sports. 2] While many see Nebraska/Lincoln/Omaha as only fly-over territory, we have an AMAZING sports history and fan base. We also have award winning sports talk radio and a couple of the most respected hospitals in the country. Dr. Mark Rupp, a well respected expert in this area here in Omaha at UNMC answered questions pertaining to the Corona virus. While there was no way Dr. Rupp could offer up anything remotely approaching guarantees/answers or overt optimism, he did say a few things that resonated. 1] He stated that the Covid-19 virus...paraphrasing only here...was rather weak and offered little resistance to general things like alcohol/bleach wipes and the such. In other words, good, normal care and cleaning makes it overt. 2] There is a general, hopeful, belief that like most viruses, once the general heat and humidity climb, this virus should also begin to die out. Viruses exist year round, which he was quick to remind, but there is absolutely a "season" for them. And with Spring not too far off, Mother Nature could provide some assistance. Probably the MOST IMPORTANT THING he talked about was a 7+3 rule. And I wish/hope EVERYONE here at the TD family would read and share this information. It's very simple: If you have the Corona virus, or even get sick and wonder if you might, (remember, there are other bugs out there as well), you should remain isolated for a minimum of 7 days, with 3 days fever free and just feeling generally better before you can feel safe to face the world again. If everyone just bunkers down and follows basic rules, and Mother Nature cooperates, a month or two from now, life will hopefully begin to return to normal. That's just me talking. With a little luck, we might even get in half a baseball season. My guess is no fans, playing games in AZ and FL to begin, and moving to actual ML parks come late summer. Everyone be well!

Quick comment: I place little stock in Twitter comments from him as we should all know and allow how off the cuff things like this are. Sometimes such things have a different intended meaning but are interpreted poorly. Also, emotions can make people say or type something they regret later. No excuse, just a perspective. Addressing your 3 points in reverse order: 3] Thorpe could absolutely be included in a deal to help the parent club. I think an awful lot of teams would be interested in a 24yo LHP with good stuff and a very good milb track record who showed flashes in SSS in his ML debut. Despite various reports as to how much the Twins like him, he could be moved in the right deal. Same with Rooker, Larnach, etc. 2] Not sure there is much to say here. At ANY time, a quality arm could be brought up to help in the rotation OR the pen. FWIW though, I've felt for some time if the rotation just didn't work out he could be a neck of a bullpen piece. 3] To say Thorpe has something left to prove at the AAA level would be somewhat accurate, though not exact. His numbers there over 24 appearances and parts of 2 seasons are pretty good. And as you pointed out, he is still only 24yo. Experience wise, he's a 22yo who has already reached the ML level. The Twins seem to really like him and believe in him. And even of you have a couple of really nice arms ranked higher behind him as prospects, you can't dismiss his talent/potential/milb success. I would like to believe that any conversation that took place between he and the Twins when he was sent down included something like: "We really like you and believe in you and your future with the club. But the time isn't right now as we're ramping up for the season. Get yourself ramped up, do what you do, kick ass, and you'll be up again. Hopefully for good."

I can't comment on Harmon or Bert as even at 54yo, and a Twins fan since about 5yo, I simply don't have the recollection of those guys being TWINS. And while I was aware, as a youngster, of various Twins traded or lost to new-found FA, it didn't really register in my brain back then. Tori hurt a LOT! And I recall writing a piece here on TD a couple years ago how his loss was a domino effect that really hurt the Twins in various ways from rushed promotions to even being part of the Santana trade, etc. Wish theee was an easy way to find it. I remember thinking it was semi-smart, LOL. Smalley being traded hurt as he was one of my favorites as a kid. Butch hurt too. Mourneau and Cuddy were also very painful.

I don't really want to go down this rabbit hole again, but the answer would be no. A 200G season is a straw-man arguement at this point, and not reflective of my previous statements, nor those of the OP. HOWEVER, should MLB, for whatever reason, suddenly change formats and play a 200G season, I'm sure the penalties for similar future transgressions would amount to 100G, or half the season. That penalty would cover either a season, or parts of 2 seasons. Speaking hypothetically, should that change happen mid-penalty for a player, said player should not face additional time as his suspension was based on the corresponding season length at the time of "sentence". And this comes right back around to my thoughts and those in the OP; Pineda, in this case, could/should have his games missed in a shortened season adjusted to reflect the percentage of games missed, which was the original intent of the suspension. If...and I sure hope this doesn't happen...baseball was closed down for the entire 2020 year and resumed in 2021 with a full slate, the arguement could be made that all penalties, Pineda's included carry out fully based on a new 162G season.

At this point, I'd leave Hendricks out of the equation simply because he's been gone so long. In the long run, the Twins may win the Pressly deal, or at least break even. But I never liked the deal then as I felt the Twins would contend in 2019. I know some will jump on me for this, but as it turned out, I don't know you can say they really missed him with the way Duffey and May got it together. But yeah, I would have liked to have him. Anderson I don't get. Any maybe he will end up a 1yr wonder. I there was something about him they didn't like or didn't see. Which seems all the more strange when you remember they've kept Reed despite inconsistent results and no ML time as of yet. All in all, I really like where the pen is now and am very intrigued by a couple arms that seem close.

I guess I don't understand Smeltzer in the rotation vs Dobnak and no way Gearrin is in the pen. Confused on these points. And while it's the game and not you, kinda freaked about the slow starts by Donaldson and Odorizzi. Who wrote the program? A bunch of Cubs fans? Fun stuff though!

Agreeing with you on Pineda and a reduced suspension. His penalty, as are all in this case, is based on a normal 162G season, or as in this case, spread out over a pair of 162G seasons. But percentage of games missed with a abbreviated 2020 skews things. I hope the best for Hill. But I say again considering coming off surgery, his career "norm" of outstanding half seasons I still see him back and ready to go in July. That might be even more so considering the break happening here, as he rehab and ramps up. Dobnak should still have the inside track on the #5 spot. I don't think that changes, for NOW. He seemed to be the deserving frontrunner, and he and everyone else has to stretch out and "re-compete" when activities finally commence.

You know, I think you could almost compare Dobnak to Arraez, despite being a pitcher vs a position player. Arraez, while thought of decently, was never a TOP prospect. But all he did was perform. There was even debate as to whether he should be included on the 40 man last year by some. But his HIT ability and bat control is amazing, as we all have seen. And now he's a darling, and well deserved. Dobnak, though with less time in the system, does nothing but perform as well. He doesn't throw 96 or have a wipe out slider, etc, but be performs and even dominates. When he gets his shot, he does nothing but impress, though granted it was in a smaller SS. Dobnak just seems to knkw how to pitch, how to get outs, Stroman comparison or not. Do we not embrace his potential because he doesn't have the BIG ARM? Or are we just jaded from the Twins NOT producing much from the system for several years now?

So the best way to play him seems to be for the infielders to play way back, and the OF to play way in. No problem! You can't stop Arraez, you can only hope to contain him! Lol But seriously, I firmly believe theee is such a thing as "hit tool" which is often glossed over when we talk about things like power and speed and OB, combined with SO numbers and launch angle. (Less and less we talk about speed, which I think is sad). While it is absolutely hyperbole to speak of a young player like Arraez in comparison to Gwynn, or Boggs, or whoever, it's just really hard to look at his milb track record, and what he did last season, and his approach at the plate, and NOT compare him! Again, hyperbole...perhaps...but as Jimbo and Torv mentioned above you could absolutely watch Arraez at the plate scanning the defense and just deciding where he wanted to place the ball. And he did so at an amazing clip, while also maintaining plate discipline. He is just so much fun to watch.

I think it's safe to say RF is set and in very good hands for the next few years. We have no idea if everyone will turn out, or if everyone is actually kept, but Kirilloff, Larnach and Rooker will be looking at LF/1B/DH/4th OF for the time being. And that's a very nice problem to have. What I just can't understand, or wrap my head around, is how Kepler can have such a njce swing, make good contact, hit the ball hard, perform well against LHP, and still suffer continuously from such a low BABIP. It just doesn't make sense to me. Has he just been that unlucky? Does his swing just carry too many balls to the same location so defenses just play him better? Even a slight correction to the norm would seem to make him a STAR player.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't his final fWAR numbers skewed slightly downward due to his time spent in CF filling in for Buxton?

Personally, I think few believe Stroman is anything but an ACE. A nice pitcher, but not an ACE. There was a time, not so long ago, when pitching low in the zone, or having "heavy" stuff was considered a positive. "Pitching to contact", in regard to the "old" Twins mantra never meant let the other team get hits, but rather, throw strikes, mkve your pitches around, and let the hitter get themselves out. In the sudden new age of high barrel rates and launch angles, we are talking about velocity and pitching high so batters get themselves out. But at the end of the day, outs are outs. If Dobnak is more old school in his process, who cares. If he relies more on weak contact and grounders I'm all in.