DocBauer

There may be reasons that we will probably never know. But this is one case where I think the FO just blew it. He was relatively young, had some milb success and then a great 2019 in the pen. To me, you discount almost everything negative that happened to a player in 2020. Then you add the elbow issue. You keep a guy like that for a hoped/expected rebound unless you thought his elbow was toast for some reason. I don't expect the FO to be be perfect and hit all the time. But they blew this one.

All I know is, in a lost season, for a brilliant moment, the Twins won in brilliant fashion. And that's why we love baseball so much. Those moments. Nobody gave up, or has given up. Now, focus on the remainder of 2021 and get ready for 2022.

You left out Aggie as a converted SP who turned in to an outstanding RP. I am pleased the staff is tossing Alcala out tbere in high leverage situations. I mean, really, at this point what do You have to do other than develop and get ready for next year? Rogers is looking better. Duffey is looking like his "old self". Robles is either a trade candidate for a marginal prospect or someone you would bring back because of stuff and career numbers. Alcala's velocity and slider look REAL! But YES, he needs something else despite IP and experience. We forget sometimes what a "change" is. Does he need a straight '"change up" or a split pitch or a cutter or a "slurve" variation, Maybe he needs to talk with Duffey more. Maybe this is where Johnson starts to re-earn his reputation . Let's get Alcala ramped up for the future even if there are some growing pains.

Polanco, similar but different move to 2B is much like Mauer's initial move to 1B, it takes time to adjust. He has flashed real ability at the position but it still takes time to settle in. He needs time, he's already flashed. Simmons was a smart signing at the time. His offensive numbers, lest we forget, improved the past few seasons. And again, less we forget, were well above average or his career numbers when the season started. Of course, regression was in order. But coming off his IL time, his offense has been at an All time low and I'm not sure the defense has been quite the same. Has he lost interest? Or is he just struggling? I still like the plan of Polanco being a 2B with Arraez being a versatile utility player. But it does kill me amongst everything that has gone wrong in 2021m that Galvis with the Orioles looks like he could have been the better signing. (Sigh) I ABSOLUTELY believe Lewis has everything needed to be a quality ML SS with premium offense and at least decent if not good defense. But we can't deny he's at least a year away now due to injury. I could be WAY WRONG, but it just feels like Simmons isn't a "fit". As if he and the Twins just don't mesh well on a "personality" level. And maybe it's just a bad year for everyone. The Twins need a SS for 2022 and maybe Simmons just loves being here and will re-sign. But I'm starting to think he might need to move on and the Twins need to find another option for next year. If he's actually happy here, then keep him. Use your payroll for other spots. Plug him in at SS for one more year and worry about the rest of the roster. Even with diminishing skills he's still a solid SS. Otherwise, get what you can and let's see what happens in the off-season.

1] DE: Weatherly never should have left. He knows that now, barring a surprise in growth he's a reserve who is solid. He COULD surprise and I'll give him that. But he could also be cut. I just don't see a future for Holmes unless he suddenly cranks his game up a notch or two. Wonnum shows real potential, I really liked the Jones pick. He, like Wonnum, is a perfect fit for the system and a guy for Patterson to work with. Robinson is the same, with as much potential, but comes from a power 5 team on a downward trending team that maybe/probably didn't utilize and develop him properly. Do you dare cut a 4th round pick hoping for a PS spot? I don't think so. When the Vikings don't put Mata'afa at NT, he's been productive as a reserve. He played more DE in 2020 and flashed a bit. He could be an ideal 5th or 6th DE who can still slide in to the #3 spot here and there. Speaking of an ideal fit for the last DE spot, Willekes is coming off a missed season due to injury. And no matter what he does in camp and pre-season he's probably a best fit for the PS in 2021. Everyone forgets about him. Award winning and productive, he just doesn't have amazing speed and length that make him a top draftee. And he wasn't, He was selected at least one round later then projected, if not two. Heart, determination, smarts, production are/were excellent. Overall numbers were solid. Videos show him doing back flips, yet he was reported as a bad athlete. But missing a season he's probably, again, a perfect PS stash. There are a couple veteran DE we can sign to make a difference for at least 1yr. I'm OK with that! Reiter is very interesting to me. I'm not sure I trust Cole as anything at this point, I love the potential of Hinton. The Vikings seem to like Brandel as a multi-position depth piece, but may need more time. Reminds me of a young Huffman. Reiter could be a great fit but I also wonder about Easton. Dozier has experience and versatility. He's not a bad run blocker. But can't we look towards getting better than him whether another FA or developing a couple interesting internal options?

On the surface I agree with you. But unless we suffer massive injuries to the secondary yet again, I just don't understand some of these latest signings, even if Gladney is gone for a few games half a season, or the whole season. FWIW, I don't want to debate the charges against Gladney. I believe in due process and hopefully the truth will come out of what he did or claims he didn't do. But even without him I have faith Peterson gets new life with a new team. Alexander is only a year removed from a system he knows well and the one guy I really wanted them to keep. I don't feel Breeland is a STUD, but he's solid and experienced, Dantzler looks like a keeper. Hand showed flashes last year and seems to have potential and a future. Boyd is nothing special, but he shows some potential after 2yrs and has carved out a ST role. So even if Gladney IS gone for a time, I'm just not sure I see a need for 11 CB unless they plan on converting someone to S or hoping to carry a couple guys on the PS for depth. I love depth, But kind of feels like they may be over doing it at CB vs other spots.

Hmmm, 14 to 12 I think you might be under-selling. But to 8th I totally agree. I find it slightly humorous the run this topic has had. If "trader Rick" REALLY liked Fields that much he would have coughed up more. At least next year's 2nd rounder. I believe he was just kicking tires and seeing what would happen. Obviously nobody bit or countered, BTW, do we know 100% that was the offer? I have ZERO belief at this point that Mond will turn out to be our QB of the future. And I say that with due respect for talent and possibility. But then again the world has changed and how many 1st round QB have we seen continue to disappoint while 2nd, 3rd and 4th round selections like Wilson and Prescott emerge? Personally, I think Cousins is pretty damn good. The numbers say so despite a poor OL. NOT saying he's great, awesome, etc, but a poor OL and how many offensive co-ordinators just since he joined the Vikings? Offensively, Zimmer needs to find something/someone that works. It feels like he and the team have been scrambling ever since Norv Turner stepped down. Stafanski seemed to the answer and then he got a HC job, I feel, despite solid numbers, that Kubiak was on borrowed time ready to retire. Is his son Klint ready to take over and bring new ideas? And if the answer is yes, then the offense should be better and more consistent. Consistency means better results, but also better and more consistent development for a kid like Mond. He's already a better backup than we've had for a couple years, even being a rookie. But he gets to sit now for 2yrs behind an experienced veteran. In theory, he gets to learn a system in place that won't change yet again. He has the arm, athleticism and pro-college coaching that could lead to real development. (I've heard reports that his pro coaching in college may have been TOO stiff and he might relax and let his natural talent come through still). Who knows if Mond will develop and turn a corner over the next 2yrs. But he at least has a chance. If the Vikings FO REALLY loved Fields that much, they would have offered more, IMO.

We won! You can say "small victory" but it's still a win. But to me, what I saw, was what this team is SUPPOSED to do. We can lament the season, and we can poo-poo wins against the Orioles and the Royalsm and I get that. But despite some really bad gaffes here and there and a couple really bad performances, and despite massive injuries, the team has generally played better the past few weeks. They haven't given up. There is no way barring a historical comeback that this team contends in any way. My goodness, we're behind Detroit right now! But with health and just playing better, I think we have a shot at .500 while developing and audition some valuable young talent the second half of the season. Moral victories aside, isn't that something to shoot for to help get prepared for next year? Eager to see Ober again, but surprised. I thought Jax was next man up. Looks like I missed something.

Fitting don't you think how this season has gone? I think the blame for 2021 has to fall on the unfortunate shoulders of some vp secretary in charge of SOMETHING to have never sent out the appropriate emails to the organization to remind them that 2020 was LAST YEAR and we've flipped the calender now. And we thought daylight saving time was a mess!

Hindsight is always perfect 20/20 so I think a good deal of perspective needs to be taken in discussions like this and future ones that will take place in the future. Call me foolish or overly optimistic, but I felt this was a legitimate 94-95 win team that MIGHT be a few games better thzn that if a Shoemaker, Robles and a couple others stepped up. (At least for the first half when some additional talent would/might be ready for the second half). I NEVER saw this many injuries or virtually the entire team getting off to such a poor start. But it is time to cease finger pointing and blame and "whoa is us as fans" complaints and address tomorrow, and the days after that. This team, as constructed, has holes to be sure. And it reminds me a lot of 2018 when it felt like the Twins were ready to turn a corner before a poor '18 slide. But the nucleus of that team was in place for the 2019 and 2020 seasons. And most of those guys are still here, and still under 30yrs old. And while there are questions, serious questions in some cases, I don't believe these players have suddenly quit caring, quit trying, or suddenly lost their ability to play baseball. I hate to say it because it will come off like a poor excuse, but sometimes s**t happens. Guys get hurt. Guys have a bad start, or a bad year. Sometimes a FO, even a smart and successful one, put a plan together and it JUST DOESN'T WORK, even if it looks generally good on paper. What was CLEARLY supposed to happen, IMO, was a very solid team with a few question marks, that was preparing to win/contend while still having the luxury of re-tooling some on the fly. For example: a healthy Shoemaker being solid for the first half as a back end SP and Duran being ready to step in later. Example: multiple arms, some signed and some prospects, doing what we saw in both '19 and '20 and filling in/being promoted when called on. Example: Kirilloff ready for daily duty, or nearly ready, and Larnach to follow later in the year and Rooker building on his milb performance and SSS in '20 before injury robbed him of finishing the year, as a solid role player. These are just a few examples of how this team was built and how things were supposed to go, more or less. But to "blow up" and re-build a team with so many under 30yr old players who just brought in back to back ALC divisions is foolhardy as well as short-sighted. And I'm NOT saying to NOT trade or promote and audition. But to just dump guys tomorrow is a little silly as someone has to play the field and take the mound. The milb season started late, in case you forgot. As 2021 luck would have it, two of our top SP prospects had a delayed start. A kid who might already be in the pen, Colina, may be out for most of the year. Lewis is definitely out for the year. But yes, very soon, they will need to move some expiring contracts and get what you can for them, whether it be a decent A flier or maybe a potential bullpen arm at AA on the rise. 5yrs in, barely, and we want to complain about the system producing or not producing....forgetting the past 2yrs and injuries...Kirilloff and Larnach aren't going anywhere. We've seen what Jeffers might become, though he was pushed a bit. Rortvedt and Celistino, also pushed, are getting their feet wet. So has Ober and now Jax. Duran has only 3 or 4 starts so far, but could be ready by July. Winder has looked great as has Canterino. Both should be ready for promotions soon. Same with Miranda. And these are just kids at the upper levels who could all be ready soon. Hopefully sooner rather than later. Financially speaking, an actual full year of "normal" baseball helps the team's pocketbook. There will be expiring contracts, some traded, to allow for additional trade or FA signings next year to re-tool the roster. (Though there are a couple potential extensions to still consider). But any tanking idea or dismantling of the roster, despite 2021, is just naive. The Twins need to promote and audition in a lost season. They need to cut bait here and there to be sure. But as a whole what the roster needs is a re-tooling, not a re-build. The problem is said re-tooling was supposed to take place during a very different 2021 and the off season and not begin now.

Duran should be up at some point the 2nd half of the season. As a SP, PERIOD. Even if the Twins SOMEHOW go on a June tear, let him start. Hell, if the team did go on a tear, he might be part of the reason. Winder needs to be up to AAA SOON! ML promotion is somewhat debatable, but let it ride. Canterino, IMO, should have started the season at Wichita. There is value in protecting his arm due to IP, but only because he missed 2020 and not because of his college use. We are beyond that now after sitting most of last year. I can absolutely see Sands and Enlow at St Paul the second half of the year as well. Maybe not a potential ML debut that Duran should have, maybe Winder, but them closer and ready. Balazovic is frustrating only because of his late start. DON'T blow it by over burdening him, but don't be afraid to at least give him a couple weeks at AAA if he's healthy and doing what he can do. Promote Miranda soon. The Twins invested heavily on INF a couple years ago and we are generally seeing very positive results so far. Promote them soon. You can't be afraid of prospects playing well after a lost year. You need to adjust timeliness. Get Julian and Steer and others up to the level they deserve to be at. There is a lot to like with what is happening at the milb level right now. Please don't be passive.

Just wanted to address the Lewis idea. I have little doubt he could be a quality CF with his talent and his look-see at the position during his AFL stint. And versatility is a great thing! But while he may still be a little raw at SS, he has the range, arm, and body control to be a solid/good SS. You don't give up on such a talented kid at at SS at this point.

No offense to Celestino, who I have high hopes for and should have a floor as a 4th OF, but how crazy is this season when we're on our 5th CF the 2nd of June? I'd rather let Celestino play great defense and get his feet wet rather than bring up Broxton and have to create yet another 40 man spot. And let's not forget Broxton slid a lot in ST and hasn't done anything at St Paul this season so far. Really hoping Whitefield continues to play well and gets to spend the 2nd half of the year at St Paul. He's not just a good story, the guy has real skills and is a quality athlete. But we all knew he was going to take a while to tap in to that ability. Run with Celestino for now. Not going to lie, I really like the idea of Gordon getting some side work in CF and maybe trying it when he gets back to AAA. He's still young, fast an athletic. He adds his lost weight back on, hopefully adds a few more pounds of muscle...and there's room to easily add 10-12lbs of such...his arm may improve at SS a bit. You MIGHT yet end up with a useful utility player that MAY be able to play a little CF here and there. Absolutely worth a shot, just not at the ML level in games at this point.

Unless this forearm tightness is something bad, I'd say to re-sign him. I like the 2yrs for $26 idea a lot. I don't like the trade him and then re-sign him. Feasible? Yes. But he could like his next team as much as the Twins, they like him too and so they offer an even better deal. Things change when things change. We need pitching...everyone does...and I'm for keeping what you have when it's good. And he's a good, solid SP who would be excellent in the 4th spot if we can find someone better for the front of the rotation. Now, is someone better via trade, FA or Duran getting his feet wet the second half of 2021? But I'd re-sign him.

Responding to your question with a similar question. How can we NOT make sure it doesn't happen again? And I'm not being facetious bro, just trying to make a point. And I'm not being cavalier when I state the Twins of 2021 may just be victims of expectation and the ebbs and flows of sport and life. We can use reverse 20/20 vision, all of us, and try to assess blame because it's human nature and what we really want is not blame but answers. Because THEN, we figure we know how to fix things. Sorry crew, it just ain't that easy. I can tell you things I said months ago. I wanted to keep May and would have done $5-6M and maybe a bit more. Retrospect, I would have gone the $7M, which I have previously stated. I could embarrass myself by re-stating that while he didn't have the velocity and K potential of May, I thought the FO did just fine bringing in Colome as a more consistent and proven arm coming off a 5yr stretch of quality and his very best season in 2020. Boy do I look stupid so far. But I could also remind that I thought Robles was a key and under the radar signing. And despite some hiccups, he's been pretty good and would make a great #4 guy in the pen. I could also re-state that I love Jeffers and believe in his future, but thought Garver would turn it around and really wanted a veteran LH catcher to provide insurance. I could also remind you that I felt great about our last 4 bullpen spots but was worried about middle relief but hooeful for talent on hand. Woof! My whole rambling point is, despite some question marks, most everyone from me/us/press felt this was a contending team. And just about everything that could go wrong has gone wrong. There really is no DELTA of what went wrong or who is to blame. The very disappointing but abject "fun" of being a fan is "what happens tomorrow"? Now, the reality is this team is too talented to be this bad if we get healthy and just perform better. But in a month, it's going to be too late and we will have to chalk this year up to a season where fate, injury and karma and whatever just decided it wasn't our year. Sucks! This was a team, with a few question marks we just figured would sort themselves out...bullpen mostly...and be in the thick of it. It was also a team in prime position to re-tool on the fly with some very talented players on the cusp ready to make a difference and begin to transition and keep the window open. This team resembles the 2020/2011 seasons where we ready to rock. But there is a big difference we didn't have then, compared to now and the question of how do we not repeat another lost season. Kirilloff and Larnach have both arrived. They are young, they will have bad moments, but they are here to stay. God and baseball gods willing, we have a nice duo in Arraez and Polanco for the infield. They have shown over and over what they can do if we can just find a way to keep them healthy. Garver, just given time, has been Garver again. Funny how that works. Unless a trade happens, we still have a solid 1-3 rotation. Dobnak has potential. A lost 2020 season has screwed development for us as well as most teams. But we've already seen growth, despite a lost 2020, from Winder and Duran and maybe even Ober and a few others potentially. We just haven't seen that in more than a few years. So how do we prevent another 2021 disappointment? 1] Embrace the prospects. Not only AK and Larnach but let Gordon play a little. Keep growing Duran. Let him pitch the second half and let it fly. Give Ober another shot or two. Unless we rebound...and I sure hope we do...dont be afraid to run with a few kids. Dobnak in the rotation and Thorpe in the pen, for example. 2] Be aggressive with milb promotions even though it's a shortened season. TRUST in the development network you've put in place. Virtually every other team is going through a lost season the same way you are. Only a few 2020 non-contending teams filled their reserve roster with prospects. You either have put in place a system and collection of coaches you believe in, or you haven't. 3] Examine your coaching staff and how you do things. Look, I think Rocco is a fine young manager who has done some great thjngs. And despite some very questionable moves here and there, like a young player he has real potential from what we've seen. But give him a trusted, experienced voice in his ear for a bench coach. And no insult to the batting coaches, and maybe we keep both, but is there a difference in approach we need to re-examine? The milb system has changed to look at each individual as a hitter. Have the ML coaches lost sight of this, or is it just a lost message or a continuation of everyone just being affected by 2020? Despite poor clutch situations, the Twins runs production is still in the upper third of MLB. 4] Don't be cute with your bullpen. Forget how smart you are, from FO to coaches. Keep looking for quality fliers. You do it well. And don't just thrust a potential quality SP in to the pen just because. But don't be afraid of a short term fix/help there. 5] Don't be afraid to spend. You don't have to go nuts. And there a couple of potential key extensions you could be looking at. And I'm not saying a sudden $180-200M payroll. Nor am I saying sign the next Reed who bottoms out or a CRAZY Hendricks contract. But with the world going normal, don't be utterly afraid of potential extensions or a couple $M for a useful bullpen piece or reserve player. Maybe trust in Maeda and Berrios and keep Pineda. Heaven forbid we drop $15M on a quality #2/3 and still keep Pineda as a #4 while letting Dobnak and everyone else push for their spot.. Don't be stupid. But as the Twins FO/ownership, you can do a $150M+ and lose nothing and augment a quality roster. Just don't be afraid to spend a little.

Just so happy to have milb back as well as the TD coverage of such. And that coverage is awesome! Thank you and everyone yet again for all of your hard work. While we have SSS here and there to consider, I think the positives outweigh the negatives when breaking down your OP here and the previous one. And there have been some good surprises thus far as well, in fact, too many to really name. I agree age shouldn't really be a defining factor for anything other than prospect rankings. But age IS a factor currently after losing a full season. Basically, the entire 2019 draft class saw a half season at most before sitting for a year. Some guys, injuries being a factor in some cases, barely or never saw the field at all. Of course, the 2020 kids saw nothing until now. So age vs level and production may take a year or two to level out to something more "normal". The one thing I hope the Twins will do is be aggressive with promotion in 2021. Beating a dead horse yet again, MLB did EVERYONE from the parent team down to each and every prospect a dis-service by shortening the season. Yes, there was an Instruct League, but there's always been one. Only a few prospects got the benefit of the reserve team in 2020, more so for non-conteners, less so for teams like the Twins. Glad to see Celestino get hot and get promoted. Did Whitefield learn and develop enough in 2020 to follow him? I know he's raw but he's looked tremendous thus far. (I can be patient) Miranda and Winder and Canterino should be up soon. And they need to be for the Twins and their own personal future. IMO. Can't wait to see a healthy Balazovic get on the bump! Still getting used to the new milb format, but some version of the GCL is still intact, correct? DSL and young, recently drafted players will still start to play at the Ft Myers complex soon with hopes of being promoted to low A before the year is done.

Appreciate your response, as well as the entire OP. (As well as your 2nd OP addressing Rocco and his staff). But I just wanted to address your A and B points that you stated here. A] They went after too few arms? Maybe. I guess we'll never know for sure how many they looked and or how many offers were presented. At the time, Robles and Colome seemed like fine additions. I also appreciated the young arms with upside such as Anderson and Hamilton, as well as some mkre experienced arms to work with and re-invent. I think it could be argued the numbers were there, though certainly the results haven't been. If anything, there may have been too much trust in their coaching/development process to come through yet again. B] Didn't offer enough financially for some arms? Again this is possible, and again we'll never know how the process actually went down. IMO, they never saw the Mets swooping in and offering May the contract that they did. Were they short-sighted there? Perhaps. I would offered him $7M and not signed Colome, even though it would have nudged payroll a bit more. Your opinions are all well thought out, and we are on the same page in regard to Hendricks and the number of arms the Twins were at least checking on that are either injured or just performing poorly. While I am as frustrated and discouraged as anyone...and this is not directed at you or anyone specifically, just a general statement...i have yet to see anyone provide a list of FA available arms that are healthy and productive they could/should have signed instead. What the FO THOUGHT they were doing made perfect sense initially even it didn't go well at all. I hate that but I get it. Sometimes the moves you make just don't work. Stinks to high heaven! But I would argue the ATTEMPT was sound and just can't bash said attempt and make proclamations they blew it or didn't try. Now, where do we go from here is an entirely different topic.

1] Move the 2B extra inning runner rule to the 12th inning. 2] Enforce a 20 second pitch clock. I can go along with 15 seconds with no-one on base. But you also have to enforce the batters staying in the box as well or you've done nothing. Give the batter 5 seconds to step out and adjust. Your fault if you didn't put enough pine tar on your bat before you stepped in. 3] Eliminate the 3 batter rule. I think it's been proven to have no positive effect. 4] Shifts are fine. Extreme shifts are just boring! Everyone should be required to have TWO players on the dirt on either side of 2B. You can cheat all the way to 2B, but not 3 on any one side. 5] DH in both leagues. It's time. And I think even those who aren't crazy about the DH realize it's time for uniformity. 6] A 27 man roster with a cap on 13 pitchers. Similar to 2020. The game has changed. It's time to change with the times. Not everyone has their AAA club across town or a couple hours away. There are still minor injuries that happen but don't warrant an IL stint. Platoons and situational baseball has changed. An extra bench player to provide PH, PR and depth options makes too much sense in today's game. 7] Eliminate the STUPID September limited roster roster promotion rule. This was done as a ridiculous "integrity of the game" idea that losing teams, out of contention, wouldn't load their lineup with prospects against a team still playing for a post season spot. How in hell is a bad team that much worse auditioning a player or two at the end of the season? Further, how about a playoff team that wants to audition a player or two for the future and maybe rest a couple guys getting ready for the playoffs to be ready for optomim performance? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face! Maybe I'm just being an experienced and opinionated jerk, but I think all of these points are logical, needed, and easy, and cheap, to implement. And they ALL improve the game. A pair of final considerations: A] I am not against robot umpires. But you go down a rabbit hole to milb, college baseball, etc. It may happen. And that's fine. But I'd still rather see education, more review and grading and control. MLB and the players union have more control than the umpire union does. I'd rather start with better evaluation and promotion-demotion. B] This one is just tongue in cheek and silly and having a bit of an old school love, but since there are so many uniform rules in all sports already, how about some rule where pants have to be so many inches above the shoe, or below the knee? LOL! I know it sounds stupid, but there is still something fun about actually seeing the traditional look of the socks. Accept everything posted and give me all the crap you want to about the uniforms.

I would ave preferred Semien and was hopeful. I know Semien at SS would be a downgrade at SS, but he would have been solid there, IMO, and still allowed the move of Polanco to 2B. The thing that we just don't know from the above numbers is how Semien's total value might have dropped, in comparison to Simmons, were he at SS instead of 2B. I think the Twins did well to pivot to Simmons and I'm just not sure, were I in charge, that I would have signed Semien for the extra $8M. That just seems like a lot. But if I could revise the off-season, I think I would have done it and spent another couple $M on keeping May over Colome. And that's not rear looking 20/20 vision. It's just what I would have done, though admittedly it would have bumped the payroll a little. I have no problem with the Simmons signing to be sure. And he's a better offensive player the past few years than we are seeing right now. He's been slumping a bit lately after coming off the IL but history says he should/could rebound and improve. Any disparity between Semien and Simmons might be closer at the end of the year than we see now, not including the aformentioned caveat "what if" Semien was still at SS. But again, Semien for 1yr at $18M and a couple $M more to keep May would have been a net payroll raise of approximately $5-6M. I am not blasting the FO for what they did in this equation, but coming off back to back outstanding seasons and looking to contend in 2021, I would have gone this route.

I'm going to simply paraphrase Brock here as I feel that's sufficient rather than a bunch of copy and pasting. 1] Sometimes changes have to be made for the sake of change. 2] It's simply impossible to know how the pandemic and 2020 affected each team, or it's players or the team's preparation. I think these are salient points. I am NOT stating anyone should be fired. In fact, the Twins have played much better of late, overall, even in losses. We still have a lot of season left to see what happens, whether or not the Twins can climb back in to the race by July X or not. And again, I'm not asking for anyone to be replaced at this time even though I broached the idea as a question last week in a short-lived thread. But sometimes a "voice" from a coach just gets lost, or old, or isn't heard right. Sometimes an approach just doesn't work, even if that coach has a fine reputation. Maybe the fit just isn't right? Personally, I like the job Rocco has done, overall, even though I have questioned several moves here in 2021. And someone mentioned that may be a bit of a work in progress. I also think that is a salient point. He lost Rowson, he lost Shelton, and then we have the tragedy of Mike Bell. It could be as simple as a veteran influence in his ear, possibly a change in a coach or two for a different voice and perspective, and maybe a shift in routine drill wise. As stated, sometimes change just has to take place for the sake of change. Maybe not today, but it is worth considering before next year depending on how things develop and play out. As far as dealing with life, covid, 2020 and coming off 2020, I have no clue how you could possibly quantify such a thing or place blame on anyone. And that's for any player or any team. And it's not a cop-out. It's simply something to be considered due to the fact that lives individually and the world as a whole have been in an unusual and un-familiar place for over a year now. And to go along with that.... ....I wrote in a previous, related, thread as to the Twins month long spiral being as much mental/emotional as anything. Possibly. Reflect for a moment that this is a team coming off a pair of division winning season's and seemingly built to contend and compete again. Let's not forget they started well and could have easily been 6-0 or something to that fact. They lose Donaldson first game. They lose a couple tough games. They played almost exclusively day games to start the season so if they wanted extra batting or infield practice they were pretty much SOL. So now they start to press. And when that happens, bad things not only continue to manifest, but each error or extra inning loss becomes magnified. Donaldson and Arraez have been brought up as examples. Fine, we'll use them. Donaldson may or may not be the player he once was. That's really beside the point. He still knows how to field and throw better thzn some of the gaffs he's had so far. Same with a few uncharacteristic plays from Simmons. Arraez has never been a great defensive player, probably never will be but he's OK and has been applauded for being an intelligent and instinctual player. He then air mails a throw that costs a game. Arraez knows how to throw a baseball! But he made a horrible throw. Does he just not know or understand the fundamentals of bassball? Or Donaldson or Simmons? Tell me you haven't bad a bad day, or week, or even month at work and every single little thing that could go wrong seems to, or becomes greater magnified because unto themselves each individual occurrence is small, but they simply compound on top of one another. WHEREVER anyone wants to place the blame for a frustrating first full month to the Twins season, you can't deny injuries, covid scare and a multitude of errors or misssd opportunities and some hanging pitches haven't seemed to all happen at once. Circling back to Rocco, the topic at hand, and even the previous OP that is related to this one, it's really tempting to want to step back and find SOMONE/SOMETHING to blame. It makes us feel better because as human beings we WANT an answer as to WHY something happened. Unfortunately, sometimes crap just happens. And there is a difference between reasons for something happening vs excuses. There are times for a reality check as well as tough love. And once in a while a little spit and passion can be part of that, especially in sport. But I personally, in my own world as well as trying to place myself as a member of a team, have more respect for a manager/coach/leader who has a steady hand and approach vs kicking and screaming and emotional outbursts. Am I long-winded here? You bet! LOL. But there is a lot more to look at here vs trying to affix some blame game to anyone, be it Rocco, the coaches or the FO or the players. And sorry, but after 2019 and 2020 successes, the original OP is right to consider different factors and invite discussion as to 2021 at this point, but arbitrary blame towards anyone is short-sighted and really, just inaccurate at this point.

Really not liking this and crossing fingers Chalmers isn't claimed by someone. I know he's not ready yet and his control runs hot and cold, but his stuff is just too good to let go at this point.

At the end of the day, I'm glad we won. That's the most important thing. And not all wins will be pretty. But all wins count the same. (Like it or not, the Royals have been TOUGH on the Twins for several years now). Nice outings by Alcala and Duffey. Not so great by Robles but he's been looking pretty good and everyone allows z run here and there. Rogers was just...WOOF...before finishing it up. A double followed by a 2 run shot for Mondesi's first of the year with a 3 run lead? Not so good. And if I'm not mistaken, wasn't it on a 0-2 or 1-2 count? I think Kirilloff and Larnach are here for good, barring a temporary demotion due to roster crunch or similar. They are just too good and both seem ready. I know it's still SSS, and I know regression to some sort of norm is coming, but I'm starting to think/believe Refsnyder just might be the "RH version of Jake Cave" this team needs going forward, especially as LH dominant as the OF now stands.

Addressing the original topic of the OP, I'm going to toss out 3 thoughts that can be debated and #3 will probably get a lot of push back, but I think is worthy of consideration. 1] I do agree that there is a clear separation of analytics vs fundamentals. Extreme example; bunting is a fundamental and not an analytical piece of the game. Is there too little time spent these days on just pure fundamentals? I think an argument could be made for that. But I also have no clue how the Twins handle daily routines in regard to such, nor any team for that matter. Is it even remotely possible...and more on this in point #3...that the early schedule of only day games robbed the Twins of opportunity for just normal work in the field and batting practice? 2] No matter disappointment and disbelief of the pen thus far, we need to just STOP bashing the FO for the pen. Other than letting May walk...God bless him, I'm not sure anyone other than the Mets would have given him $7M+....where did they go wrong? The Hendricks deal by the Dirty Sox was NUTS! We all know that. The Twins were tied to at least another half dozen bullpen FA options that went elsewhere. And it's been reported and examined right here on TD who those arms were, and they have ALL been injured or have just stunk thus far. So where exactly did the FO "blow it" in regards to the pen? While hindsight is 20/20, I see blame given but no examples given of who they "missed" on. 3] And I know I will get rolling eyes and blowback on this, but is it possible the biggest problem the Twins have faced thus far is "mental lock"? Bear with me here. You have a well constructed team expected to contend and be amongst the best in MLB , CERTAINLY in the AL. You're coming off 2 great seasons. You get off to a good start and probably should have won their first 6 or 7. Donaldson gets hurt first game. A couple other injuries happen. And then the pen blows a game. Then someone makes a key error. Suddenly you lose a few games and your swag and confidence erodes. Suddenly everyone starts pressing. Things begin to Cascade. And then more injuries happen and everyone presses more and more. Gold Glove infielders drop balls and solid veterans just screw up unexpectedly. And good hitters press. Call me crazy if I'm wrong. But I think part of the problem is a lot of guys pressing and wanting to get right and overcome. And my "questionable" point 3 goes back to points 1 and 2. The sum of parts to equal a whole just doesn't always work. And maybe this team just doesn't mesh right. It happens. But I have come to believe that this team has been fighting themselves as much as their opponents. Lately, thankfully, despite injuries, and while facing lesser teams, they have been playing better. They either accept this opportunity and recent success and build confidence and run with it...OR...it may be too little too late.

I make no excuses for him in regard to his "streakiness". Despite some injury setbacks, he's experienced enough now they shouldn't be as prelevant as they are. But it's also hard to argue with a career OPS of .824. He's just not consistent enough to put him in a 3 or 4 spot in the lineup. But he's so damn dangerous you don't want to put him lower than 5 or 6. The misnomer about him is that he's only a feast or famine player who takes poor AB. The truth is, he takes great AB and works the count. The problem might be that he is not aggressive enough at times and ends up SO with 3-2 counts, etc. Sorry for bad recall, but during a recent broadcast they were relaying that one of the things the staff was working with him on was looking for a pitch early that he could handle vs working the count. Sounds crazy, right? But it also makes a lot of sense when you think about it. When you have that dangerous of a bat, maybe being a little more aggressive early...unless you're just getting out of the zone offerings...makes real sense. Maybe being a little more pro-active is the key for him.

Yep. It feels like either "panic" thinking that 2021 is lost so might as well start a re-build, or, "we just don't like Berrios or believe in him". And that's not a shot at anyone. Just my interpretation on the subject. Again, we're walking a tightrope. You don't want to develop a quality arm...who still has potential...and then lose him for nothing but a draft pick. I get that. But I've always believed you keep what you have, when it's good unless the numbers just don't make sense. And we just don't know enough yet about those numbers. Also, we often debate about "going all in". Is it really so hard to see a few changes and tweaks to this team in the next off-season and see them as legitimate contenders in 2022? If so, then isn't keeping Berrios for another season, even if you risk losing him, part of "going for it"? Just tossing that out there.