LA Vikes Fan

This team is hard to watch. Like many here, I do want to move things up and start over at least a little. The problem is who to add. Hopefully Arraez is back Tuesday, and Kirilloff by the end of next week. Move Shoemaker to the pen, bring up Dobnak. Rortvedt isn't ready, time for Jeffers to come back. Find Significant playing time for Larnach and Gordon. Keep Law in the bullpen for the next 10 days and see if he can pitch. Its hard to know what to do other than that. There just isn't much else out there. Its actually pretty depressing.

Funny intro. Kudos. Why is Cave playing? Isn’t the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result? Sit him down, move Kepler to centerfield or call up Broxton. Let’s not go insane.

As hard as I have been on Rocco and the FO, I think we need to acknowledge that at least the FO seems to be recognizing the urgency of the situation and at least is making moves. Larnach, Gordon and Law are all up. While I still think that Thorpe should be up to replace Shoemaker, or at least Dobnak, I’m guessing that Shoemaker’s kind of slightly better than the average performance last night against a lousy team will buy him another turn in the rotation. Still, the guys that look like they have a chance to contribute this year are getting their shot. Now it’s up to Rocco to find a place to play these guys. Larnach and Gordon need to get some fairly consistent at bats and Cave needs to go to the bench and stay there. Let’s see what these guys can do.

Absolutely the right one for the bullpen. I would hate to lose Blankenhorn although he doesn’t really look like you’ll be a solid MLB player. He still has potential though. Will be interesting to see if he gets picked up. Best of all, the FO is now starting to make aggressive moves to improve the roster. Larnach Is up, Law is up. I would like to see Broxton come up to replace Cave but I have this feeling they’re going to wait until Kirilloff is ready to come off the IL to send Cave packing. Frankly, I think now the FO done about as much as they can with the players they have. All these guys now have their shot. Let’s see who takes advantage.

2 innings, 2 HRs, a foul pop and 5, that's right 5, strikeouts. Wow. Just Wow.

And... Sano strikes out. Now 25 SOs in 54 ABS.

This Detroit lineup is really scary.... scarily bad. Wow, I had no idea they were this bad.

Perhaps so, but can Broxton really be any worse than Cave? Cave hasn't hit since 2019 and looks awful at the plate. I get that he was decent in 2018 and 2019 but that is beginning to fade away in the rear view mirror. As for 2021? Cave is 12-75 with 32 strikeouts. 32 strikeouts in 75 ABs, 84 PAs. Let that sink in. Cave has struck out in 42.6% of his ABs, 38% of all of his plate appearances. His defense in CF? Mediocre. He might come around but it seems like he has a better chance of doing that by going to AAA and getting some playing time. This is a perfect opportunity to see if Broxton can play. Let's use it GD it. Switch them around! I don't get this. Stop playing guys who haven't played well in the hope that things will miraculously change. For the love of all that is good in the world, just stop.

Great to see Larnach up, terrible news on Buxton. Very bittersweet. Can someone tell me why Kepler does not/ can't/ won't play CF? I kind of understand Cave in the lineup tonight; don't put Larnach up against a lefty on his first day. But what about tomorrow's RH starter and Sunday's LH? It's great that he's up but let's get him in the lineup and on the field. Can't evaluate a guy who doesn't play. Kepler has to play CF to make this works or we have to call up Broxton.

Guys, I'm not a Rocco basher but you have to give him a significant share of the blame. The manager's job is more than game time managing, where he has been poor, it also includes getting the players ready to play with effort and putting them in the best position to succeed. Rocco simply hasn't done that this year. He's been way too dependent on prior performance in making decisions and slow to react to changes in performance. His over use of Colome when it was clear he wasn't right and his continued use of Sano when he is literally almost the the worst hitter in the American League are just a couple of examples. This team looks lifeless and tight in the clutch. The manager is responsible to keep the team loose and productive. The Twins are neither of those things. That doesn't excuse the players - they've been bad.

You're right. A team playing this bad and this far below potential is an indictment of the coaching staff AND of the players themselves.

Agreed. I'd start with the hitting staff. They haven't been able to help Sano, Polanco, Garver, Kepler, etc. get going. Come to think of it, the pitching coaches haven't done much with that bullpen either. Baldelli also can't seem to get these guys to perform. The record is a pretty overall indictment of the coaching staff from manager on down.

Actually, I said Sano, Polanco and/or Kepler. I would play Gordon over Polanco, dump Cave and play Larnach in RF, move Kepler to CF if Buxton has to go the IL and play Astudillo at 1B for now until Kirilloff is ready to come back. If Buxton does not go on the IL, move Kepler or Larnach to IB (I don't know if Larnach can play IB). Arraez plays LF, with Garlick there until Arraez returns. Polanco gets 2 days a week in place of Simmons, Donaldson or Gordon, Sano gets 2 days a week at 1B or 3B. Plus there's probably 1 day a week where one of them can DH and Cruz sits. Net result is Larnach and Gordon play regularly, Sano and Polanco do not, and Cave is gone. When Kiriloff comes back, the loser of the Larnach v. Kepler performance battle hits the bench and Garlick goes if it's Kepler, stays if it's Larnach who then returns to AAA. And yes, I would bench 2-3 starters when those starters are playing as poorly as these 3 are. The fact that they're projected "starters" shouldn't help them if they don't perform. Figure out who you think has the best chance of a rebound amongst the 3 and give that player playing time to show that rebound. I think Sano is the least likely and I'm torn on Polanco v. Kepler. I guess I'm looking for a potential solution. I don't think continuing to play Polanco, Kepler and Sano is that solution. IS giving time to Gordon and Larnach a solution? No one knows but it's worth a try. That try is unlikely to make things worse.

Bummer on Sano. Bench him then and start looking for a trade partner. He's killing the team.

I think this debate on Shoemaker is symptomatic of the real disease - an unwillingness to make changes when the current roster isn't playing well. I understand the small sample size argument and subscribed to it for awhile. I'm past that now, primarily because of the way we're losing. The team looks lifeless, the managerial decisions are suspect almost in every game, and the team looks tight and fails in most clutch situations. It's ahr to see a likelihood of improvement. What is most concerning is that no one has stood up and acknowledged the problem even just to say "we stink, we have to get better, and we are going to make changes until we play better." The first step to fixing a problem is to acknowledge that you have a problem. You just don't get that sense from this team. I don't know if the FO's ego, Baldelli's unwillingness to make waves and call players out, or a lack of leadership in the clubhouse from veteran players. Something's off and I think it's a real lack of any sense of urgency. It's too early to panic but it's not too early to acknowledge there's a problem and to try to fix that problem. I applaud the few moves that have been made but they are nowhere near enough. I think we're at the point where we need to make a big symbolic move that says this is NOT OK. My moves now: Send Sano to AAA and leave him there until he forces his way onto the MLB roster with his play. Promote Thorpe, pitch him every 5 days. Shoemaker DFA or to the pen. DFA Cave, bench Polanco and/or Kepler. Arraez plays every day when he's back Tuesday. Gordon plays until then. If Gordon looks good enough, keep him on the MLB roster as the utility infielder, make Araez an OF and dump Garlick. Promote Larnach to Cave's spot, play him every day. He can have Kepler's ABs. Promote Law, demote Theilbar. Demote Stashack if there's anyone else at AAA worth a shot. When Kirilloff is ready, worst guy goes . Unless we see real significant improvement over the next month, explore trade avenues for Simmons, Happ, Donaldson and Cruz. Make a decision on whether you can re-sign Buxton and if you can't, trade him. If this lasts to the All Star break, fire the manager and replace him with someone a little more fiery. Teams alternate back and forth between Player's guys and ass kickers for a reason: after a while both styles become ineffective on the same group. This may sound too radical and it may be better to do some but not all of these steps but it's time to show the team the urgency of the situation. Time to let the team know that this isn't acceptable and that everybody is at risk. Sending Sano to AAA and benching Polanco or Kepler is way to start that.

You got that right, Brock. An upgrade might be available art AAA and we won't know for another couple of weeks at least. BY then, this season might be pretty much over if it isn't already.

I agree, but not because of Sano. I think it is much more likely that Polanco flips a switch than Sano. He needs a good 2 or 3 week stint in AAA to find himself.

Get Dobnak to 80 pitches and he'll be at the "Rocco limit" for starters. He's almost there.

There's a lot of second guessing here about Shoemaker and Dbnak. I'm not a big defender of the FO or Rocco but I do think signing Shoemaker make sense at the time given his track record with the Angels before his injuries and Dobnak's ineffectiveness at the end of last season. I do think that the more fair criticism is (1) the use of Dobnak as a short reliever - that's on Rocco, (2) the continued use of Shoemaker in the rotation when Thorpe has frankly pitched much better - that's on the FO and Rocco, and (3) the pitchers in the bullpen - that's on the FO. They've corrected mistake #1 by sending Dobnak down to stretch out as a starter. Hopefully they will correct #2 after tonight even if Shoemaker looks decent against the worst hitting team in baseball in Detroit. Is Shoemaker a potential piece in solving #3 ? Maybe. More importantly, THERE ISN'T ANYONE ELSE TO RUSH UP AND HELP THIS PATHETIC BULLPEN. Those young bullpen pitchers that we should bring up? Who exactly is that? Those veteran BP arms just waiting for their chance? Law maybe, but who else? The bullpen isn't getting better because we go nobody to make it better. If Shoemaker might work, let's give him a shot.

I would reverse the allocation between the Front Office and the manager. I do think Rocco it’s about 25% responsible for where this team is. I would give the FO 15% because they badly misjudged the bullpen talent. This team is just not ready to play every day, they’ve lost confidence, and they look tight. The manager has to take responsibility for that. Rocco also needs to get his head out of the statistics, give his starters longer leashes since the bullpen is not strong, and be less afraid to pull the plug on players like Sano who are simply not performing. Those players either need to go to AAA or the bench. I think we really miss Derek Shelton as a bench coach and I know we miss James Rowson as a hitting coach. I think it’s time to cut to the chase. The season is pretty much lost. Let’s move on from some of the fringe, under performing veterans like Jake Cave, Kyle Garlick, and Caleb Theilbar. We need to keep Colome around, find a way to give him seven to ten strong performances, and then trade his ass at the deadline to somebody desperate for relief help. Strip this club down to the players you really want to have going forward and then, instead of filling the gaps with average or mediocre veteran talent, fill it with some of the young guys out of the system and sort through who can play. Now is the time for Larnach and Thorpe instead of Cave and Shoemaker. Let’s do what we’re doing with the catching. Garver is the starter and we gave Jeffers a chance to be the second catcher. He didn’t hit and we sent him to AAA and replaced him with Rortvedt. If he doesn’t hit and Jeffers hits in AAA, switch them out until you find one that can stay at the MLB level. Do you the same thing with the relief pitching and the same thing with the fifth starter spot. Sano can’t find his stroke at the MLB level, send him to AAA, give Kirilloff the 1B Job and put Larnach in the outfield. If Kepler can’t find his stroke, make him the fourth outfielder and start playing Larnach or Rooker every day. Maybe even find some consistent at bats for Gordon or Weil. And heresy of heresies, maybe it’s time to see if there’s a market for Cruz or Donaldson that would get you a quality relief pitcher or starter with upside. Look, I’m disappointed because I thought this was a team that had a real shot. It’s becoming pretty clear even at this early stage that it just does not. I could get behind watching a developing team this year, with a decent core supplemented by young guys being groomed for the future and getting their shot. It’s hard to get behind a veteran team playing poorly with no real plans for the future. And let’s face it, that’s with this team is right now.

Is it OK to give 100% of this to the players?

I I am depressed. Who thought we’d be reading this article a month into the season?

Hate to repeat a comment I made in another thread after the heat of battle, but I think we're seeing this team for what it really is - a non-contender. It's time to shift from a mindset of playing mediocre vets to stay a game or 3 more competitive and to move to developing younger players so we can hit the ground running next year. Moves to make ASAP: Shoemaker released, Thorpe back up in the rotation (as soon as the rules allow). Cave demoted or released, Larnach up. Law up, Theilbar down. Sano to AAA to find his swing when Kirilloff ready to come off the IL. Find high leverage innings for Alcala, room for relievers from AAA. Let's face it guys, this team doesn't have "it" that you need to contend. Better to get our younger players ready now than to keep older vets that don't really meaningfully contribute and aren't part of the future. Release them now and they can find a place to catch on.

That's it, I think I'm finally done. No more watching or following the games. I'm just going to see the highlights and descriptions on the internet and in the newspaper. I can't take this anymore.

Why not save Donaldson to bat for Sano? Even Garlick has a better chance at a hit than Sano.