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I wasn't going to push it too far, but I agree.

Who would want Aaron Hicks right now? Until he proves he can hit from the left side, he is an average player.

I've only seen a few clips of Jorge's delivery and he seems to be pretty smooth. I have my own opinions of what a high effort delivery is, but what are the indicators you look for? For me, it is pretty easy to tell when a guy has a lot of arm action or falls off on his delivery causing trouble repeating it. I don't mean to take up too much of your time, but this is something I've wanted to ask a scout for a long time.

Welcome to John Sickles! I think I can speak for everyone on this board when I say your work is fantastic. A few questions, if I might. First, as previously brought up in this thread about Thorpe vs. Jorge. We only have gotten bits and pieces about these two. What criteria did you use to elevate Thorpe over Jorge? I've been following Jorge since his signing, and he seems like he has a pretty high ceiling, what are his knocks? Obviously Thorpe is still really young so to me he is very exciting. These two guys are the pitching prospects that matter the most to the Twins. If they can develop to be solid MLB pitchers, the Twins will be very very good in 5 years.

This could make Terry Ryan look like a fool yet again. There was a clear need for him on this roster, there was money available, and Terry Ryan wasn't even interested. He might be right, but he could also be completely wrong.

I've already accepted that Pelfrey is coming back. I'm over it. As long as he isn't the big FA boost to the rotation, whatever.

Thorpe is just so young right now that even a level a year puts his debut at an age where guys are just finishing college. I doubt they will take him that slow, but at point he is so young that there is no need to get in a hurry. If they had wanted him to be in Cedar Rapids this year they would have promoted him to E-Town. He should have another year of HS left right? That might be why they just left him in the GCL this season and E-Town next season.

If the Twins will suck, at least they will suck with Little Nicky Punto... and his little kitty cat.

No Rosario? Pinto above Rosario?? Not a fan of this list.

I very much look forward to it.

Lol, ideally my rotation would look pretty different...

With Correia on the roster next season I don't see them signing 3 FA. Gibson, Correia are both locks to start in the rotation and I wouldn't be surprised if the Vanamil is too.

The game wasn't on for me today. Looks like Direct TV did me a favor. P.S. How do you only run the ball to AP 10 times in the entire game? Regardless of what he went through, football is his life. I think he'd have liked to get more opportunities.

I exaggerated a little bit. I still wont trust the shoulder until he throws an entire season without trouble.

Brandon, this is just a continuation of your regurgitation of Twins propaganda, prove that defense is so important. The Twins were, by different metrics, a top 10 team defensively. Didn't seem to help the pitching staff too much IMO. What you're trying to control with a good defense is BABIP, which is a pretty volatile stat. Average pitchers that pitch to contact, or ground ball pitchers, have a lot of balls put in play. By rule of averages, you can only control so much. The BABIP of the MLB (starters) this year ranged from .272 to .324. Guess who had the highest? I can't find the amount of attempts specific for starters, so I can't tell you how many hits would have to be stolen, but it is quite a bit. Combined, in order to drop .030 the Twins would have had to steal 50 hits. I don't think the defense made this staff horrible. The defense was ok. A better defense might have made a few more outs, but when you had Florimon and Dozier having elite years (in the most important positions) you'll be splitting hairs if you think defense is going to going to effect a pitching staff that much. That doesn't mean defense doesn't matter, but if you have guys that are competent at SS, 2b and CF.... you are going to have an ok defense. What is the culprit for the horrible performance of the starting staff? Stikeouts. The Twins had 477 SO, the league leader Detroit (funny they are in the ALCS and up 1-0) had 981. More than double the Twins. That is 500 less balls put in play. Detroit had a .307 BABIP, so by that logic that is over 150 hits the Tigers took away in comparison to the Twins because of strikeouts. Defense doesn't win games. Never has. It helps win games, but it doesn't turn a below average rotation into an average one. Regardless of how elite a defense is, if a pitching staff puts a bunch of balls in play, many of them (.270 to .300) are going to fall as hits. Trying to compensate a poor rotation by getting the best defense possible is foolish.

I don't think all will use eligibility next season. In fact, I think the only one that has a shot will be Sano. Meyer didn't even throw enough innings this entire season to qualify, he'd have to get promoted and have success right away (and not get hurt.... which I'm not too optimistic about). Rosario's promotion is depending on Brian Dozier. The Twins should just slide Dozier back to SS and bring Rosario up when he's ready, but they wont do that. And Buxton, there is almost no chance at all he uses his rookie eligibility. He might get called up at some point after the AS break, might, but I don't expect to see him any sooner than September. As a whole, I'm still very skeptical of the Twins rotation (especially Meyer and May). I don't really see anything changing until Stewart is up... which will be after Sano, Rosario, Buxton, Arcia have become established and Mauer is gone. If Terry Ryan is gone by then things might change, otherwise its going to be a frustrating 4 years.

I think when you're trading a guy like Rosario who has future AS potential, you should want a pretty good player in return. For me, it might not be an Ace pitcher, but a very good one for sure.

Ben, could you go further back? I'd like to see the results of this going further back. Starting in 2000 would be a good mark. That would even include Mauer to give the Twins a boost. I'm still guessing it wont help them much.

Problem with comparing to Detroit is they have the best pitcher in the game in Verlander that came up through the system. Makes it pretty easy to fill holes when you have a guy like that. Same could have been said with Santana back in the day, except the Twins (Terry Ryan) didn't put any effort to put them over the top. I think instead of "Farm" the category should be "Draft." The Rays draft pitchers incredibly well, kinda scary good really. David Price, Matt Moore (8th round- out of HS), Alex Cobb (4th round- out of HS), Jeremy Hellickson (4th round- out of HS), David Price (1st round, college). Chris Archer was acquired via trade by the Rays. He should not be listed as "Farm". Still, pretty impressive most of the Rays rotation is made-up of HS draftees that were found in the middle rounds.

There is write-ups on both in the last month in this forum. Jorge was underrated IMO. He hits the mid-90's with his FB, has good movement on it, his secondary stuff is coming along. To top it off, he is like 6'2" and 170, so he will add some bulk. I still see his ceiling as top of the rotation, with him being (obviously) more likely to be a mid-rotation or bullpen guy. Either way, he looks to be a legit MLB talent right now with projectability. I have seen a lot less on Thorpe, but the real test will be full season ball for both.

Is it bad I threw up multiple times reading this thread? Correia, Gibson, Worely and probably Pelfrey will all be locks. I hope they sign someone with talent to supplement them. In favor of Pelfrey, I'd almost rather just let Hendriks get the ball and let him go with it. If he fails, they can just DFA him. I think the rotation will be better next year, hopefully in large part from a FA signing this offseason.

Not really. Both will be trade bait all year. Hopefully they have good enough seasons to get a little better return than Morneau did. Doumit could even be moved this offseason. Willingham staying on the team does no harm, he isn't taking AB's away from anyone while providing some VP.

I like the trade in its entirety. Morneau is finished. I'd be surprised to see him get more than 1m a year next year (buy low for Twins maybe?). Getting 2 guys to add depth to the organization at positions of need is pretty good. These guys wont be building blocks, but they help add talent.

1. Terry Ryan is arrogant because he refuses to acknowledge that the "Twins Way" doesn't work. He refuses to make any changes to the manager and a pitching coach that has tanked this team. They scuff at any comment regarding statistical analysis saying they got a guy. If I need to keep expanding, you haven't been paying attention to him in the last few months. 2. Stressing fundamentals and error free baseball is what every organization does. Some, are just better at it than others. Sometimes you just don't have the talent to follow through. 3. The Twins haven't traded pieces at high value ever. They routinely have made bad trades or held on too long. Span and Revere were good trades, but Santana, Hardy, Cuddy, Kubel, even Willingham and Doumit are missed opportunities. 4. The product of 3 horrible seasons is on Terry Ryan. I don't see how he is getting a pass from some people.

I don't think he is accountable Seth. He refuses to acknowledge the terrible job he did assembling this team. Anytime he says otherwise I feel its just lip service. If he was under budget from the bosses, why cover that up? That is the only logical explanation. I don't doubt his long-term plan to get talent into the organization, I do doubt his short-term ability. He can't just keep telling fans to wait for Buxton and Sano.