old nurse

It is still very possible that Santana would pass through waivers.

No offense but you do realize the inexact nature of fip as a predictor? RE24 for the season would lead one to believe that Santana is still doing above average. His DRA by baseball Prospectus still comes in under 4 It is all about whatever metric you want to use to prove your point. The market on starting pitching is all dependent on whatever a GM believes the player will bring to their team

Perkins Duffey, Rodgers, Pressly, Orourke, Hildenberger, Busenitz, and Randy Rosario are the only current RP if you think Belisle, Boshers and Kintzler are going. That is eight. Moya would make 9 Burdi, Bard, Curtis, Melotakis, and Reed would make 13 if you kept all of them. That would be a big if. I could see them not adding back O'Rourke and not adding either Melo or Bard. That would mean one other decision or carrying one more pitcher, or cutting Perkins if his velocity is not coming back. Litttell and Ennis are starters as are May, Gonsalves Slegers and Melville if they like him. Colon, Gee, Santiago, and likely Gibson would come off. Maybe Turley if they do not like him. That would balance

The best option when Stewart was drafted would have been to lowball so bad that you were not disappointed in the results had he signed or not signed and had a better pick the next year. I don't know if many people would have come up with that . Aaron Judge thus far is the steal of the draft but not many ranking boards had him that high.

Sorry Chi, miss read your post. Funny thing on the whole thread is that substitute Garcia for Santana and the Twins started with Tate and ended where they did the OP would have credibility

Way back when in the days of old when this thread started, what was said that the Yankees were offering? I will give you a reminder, bottom prospects. Nary a decent one mentioned. Not even something you could trade to get Huscar back. The term decent prospect is going to mean different things to different people.

Artfully titled thread. The poster said they had a source and stated what they Yankees would not give up for Santana. That information is not presented as rumor, nor is it treated as such. That is all I pointed out. Nowhere do I say not to discuss hypothetical trades with the Yankees. Nowhere do I say people should not talk about should they trade or not. Do not put words that do not exist in my post.

If you looked at the last few years of deadline trades for starting pitching you would find that teams give up a lot more than bottom prospects for competent starting pitching.

Right now Royce Lewis is untouchable because I do not think they can trade him because of being a recent draft pick. This thread says nothing to the value of Santana. Someone with a claim of inside knowledge makes a statement. Is there a track record of accuracy of these statements? Nothing that should be taken as a fact.

The price for a pitcher as you describe wanting would cost at least three player and probably Berios. Archer hasn't even done as well as the pitcher you want.

Call your view what you want. The Dodgers right now have a .691 winning percentage. Historically it has been done. The Twins came back from 12.5 down one year not so long ago. I do not know what their win percentage was. It would have to be high. It was not like they had a group of shut down starters but I do believe it was a better bullpen. For the Twins to win 60% the starting rotation has to come through. That is a statement of a parameter for something to happen. For the Twins to hit .700 the relief pitching would have to step up. Grossman would need to hit like he did in April and May, Dozier would have to have a strong end of season, like he has done. It wouldn't hurt for Mauer to have a hot streak, like he has done. That is an objective statement of what it would take for .700 ball. Not out of the realm of possible. Neither is getting the 5th pick in the draft out of the realm of possible. To deny either is unrealistic.

Gimmenez wasn't signed to anything long term. Thus far, this season as a free agent which catcher has performed better than Castro that was available?

Depends on how much Oakland, San Diego and Detroit sell in the next few days. Depends if Toronto or Texas sells down assets. If you are facing 4-5 essentially development teams, especially in September, a team should win 70% of those games. If you think that Santana, Berrios, Mejia and Garcia can keep you in games and the bullpen isn't toasted from use the team has a shot. If your world view is to look at the world as darkly as possible then the Twins have a shot at the 5th pick in the draft. Either can happen. It is not unreasonable to think they can win 60% of their games. 70% would be possible various members of the team start hitting, Busenitz and Hildenberger are the real thing and Colon uses the magic elixir he used last year and while in Oakland to become the winningest pitcher in Domincan history by win totals (Marichal and Martinez will always be the better pitchers)

The ownership of the team has been the same for long enough for people to get over it. Quixotic to complain about it. Dave St. Peter appears to leave the operation of talent to the baseball operation people. Between the ownership and his position about the only direct impact they have is setting a budget and signing off on large contracts. The onlt time that it has been public that they did not want to spend a lt of money is after the 2011 season. It appeared the canned Smith because spending heavily on free agents was his solution to the 2011 mess. What has the FO done? The starting point to asses is what did they have to work with when they took over. Tradeable major league assets that the team had a replacement for was, and still is Dozier. DeLeon was about all the Dodgers were going to give up for a 2b. Their record currently says they guessed right. Time will tell if they FO was right on passing on that. Right now they look like they made the right decision.Prospects that still qualify for ROY. Mejia, Chagois, AAA prospects that jump out as having potential? Palka, Garver and Reed show up on prospect lists. A projected back end starter, projected back up catcher, relievers and AAAA hitters are not going to fetch much in a trade market Not much value to trade to get an immediate asset. Free agents. Castro vs Weiters vs Ramos. All are hitting about the same. Ramos has been injured. most of the year. The reliever free agent market is a crapshoot. They did not guess horribly wrong, with their major league contract, the did not get lucky, either. They chose to ride out Rosario's Polanco's development rather than trading them for a fringe players. Time will tell if that was the right decision. They did not trade prospects for players that did not work out. They did not snookered anyone to take a bad asset over the winter and turn it into something useful. I suppose you can rip them for that They have not been robbed either. No immediate gratification. Did they snooker anyone over the winter into

Instant gratification in baseball is rarely achieved.

It would appear that there are people who cannot read a schedule. The fate of the season is well within the players control. People all too happy to post STICK A FORK in something. Losing streaks, winning streaks. The FO can figure out the possibilities. 29 games to play with teams in the bottom 4 of their leagues. Four games against a now slumping Brewer team. That is more than enough games to make up ground so the 6 games remaining against Cleveland and 8 with KC meaningful when they happen. Unless the offer is too good to pass up I would doubt you would see selling until the waiver deadline.

Other than saying that this season Dozier is playing at a league median the ranking doesn't mean much. Any team trading for him really is not going to care one bit of feces about that. What does Dozier bring to a team that they do not have is the first thing. How does he fit into the team offense.? How much better would Dozier be if he had a better number 2 hitter behind him?

What does it say when your team does not have a 2b that is not qualified? You have poor 2b, would be the general answer. Anyone the Blue Jays Rays, , and the like are performing far worse than Dozier even though they do not have anyone that has qualified. You can't just ignore the teams that have under performance at 2b just because no one is qualified. Well, you can ignore them, it just makes your comparisons weak.

Markos, Nick, Kab and Brooks have all posted something to the effect of Santana not being good.

That is the sad reality of those advocating for a fre agent signing. There really are not that many out there that are going to be great. Umless at least two relievers in the system come forward as dependable set up pitchers, Mejia and another minor league player step forward as dependable starters, one starting pitcher more is not going to make this team a contender.

How different would the Twins be in the standings without Ervin Santana and instead say extending Kevin Correa? Keeping Tommy Millone?

Some of the ballplayers added during this better find a makeup artist.

Belisle would have a lot lower ERA id he had not pitched to Gimmenez 2.54

Madison Bum Garner?

Travis Harrison, Niko Goodrum and Pat Light would be about right Garcia faded in 2011, the only other season he pitched a full year