tony&rodney

Sorry, no assumptions were made. The numbers are already in - the Twins do better with Buxton in the lineup than when he is not in the lineup. He is a special talent. I wrote that "I hope you can see the Buxton side of an argument, even if you still don't believe in him." I wasn't trying to change your mind, just hoped one might see that people see things differently. You are correct - no one can predict the future. I don't think i did. If you believe I did, now please accept that I am saying that I cannot predict the future. Ok. This is a totally different topic. You have your opinions and there are sure to be reasons for those beliefs. I accept your 2 cent opinion, even though I do not agree with you.

Nice that Griffin Jax is able to play baseball. Congrats to him.

Best comment of the day/week/month/year. Brilliant.

This is a big concern because it may speak to a toxic environment between the current FO and the players. We just don't know. It is curious though how quickly Berrios managed to complete a deal with Toronto.

A tough front line pitcher wearing #47? Any flashbacks?

I'm struggling to see the relevance of Mauer to Buxton.

This is an interesting series Nash, with your Bassitt and Montas posts. If the Twins are not tearing it down, these two are prime targets. My offseason goal was to find trades that would potentially work and result in a 2022 Twins roster capable of competing. Miami and Oakland are possible partners. One trade offer I propose is to send Joe Ryan, Drew Strotman, Luis Arraez, Brent Rooker, Tyler Duffey, and a minor league player or two like Alerick Soularie to Oakland for Chris Bassitt and Frankie Montas. This may need to be tweeked. Billy Beane will know what is reasonable. My initial targets in Miami were Sandy Alcantara or Pablo Lopez, but they seem off limits. A proposal to the Marlins is to send Ryan Jeffers or Mitch Garver, Trevor Larnach or Max Kepler, Matt Canterino, Chris Vallimont, and Keoni Cavaco for Edward Cabrera and Max Meyer. My preference is to send Garver and Larnach. I would add Lewis for Alcantara instead of Cabrera or Meyer. These trades may cost the Twins some valuable assets but return pitchers to stabilize the starting pitching at a value salary cost. In turn, this allows the Twins to push their pitching prospects forward aggressively without drowning them at the MLB level. Nash, I'm curious how you view the Miami pitchers as potential and viable for the Twins. While both Alcantara and Lopez carry high value, perhaps Cabrera and Meyer can be worth Falvey's time.

Relax. Baseball is a relaxing game.

None of us has a clue about the actual numbers being exchanged, except there was something vaguely stated about a base of 7/$80 million. This is a ton of money. We heard/read reports of differences on incentives or a ceiling of $100 million, etc. and then it all gets muddy/unclear. The main difference of opinion I have is on the incentives. Yes, the 7/$80 million is huge money. That doesn't speak to the cost of competing in MLB. The incentives would seem to be a win/win proposition. If Buxton performs, he makes money, the Twins win when he plays, the team makes money. The incentives should start at what one might expect from a player making $11 million per year. This should be something that Falvey or his negotiator and Buxton's agent could work out between them. Certainly, most would agree that incentives could start at 120 games played or thereabouts. Injuries happen in sports and very few athletes escape competition unscathed. The greatest baseball player of this century sat out most of this past year. He also has a huge contract going forward. The revenues from tickets, ads, etc. have already paid off for the Angels. You wouldn't find one person in their organization who regrets Trout's contract. Buxton is not Trout nor close, which is why he looks to a contract with incentives that could potentially reward him for a monster year(s). The frustration with our current management team is somewhat normal but folks should let go of any venom in a different way. Falvey, like Ryan, Smith, and others before him, is attempting to do his job. I cannot get too angry at him personally because I don't know him. I never understood how anyone could judge Falvey as a wonder and put Ryan or Smith down. Ryan is among the most respected people in baseball, still. We are not privy to the directions from Jim Pohlad, at all. It is simplistic to think that Ryan, Falvey, or anyone else operates on their own wishes and whims with the direction of the Minnesota Twins franchise. Buxton has been out of action too often to judge adequately or his contract would be a simple judgment call. While his past injuries are seen as a prologue to future action, that is not certain or even highly predictable. Vegas makes money on those who predict. Buxton also has not passed his prime in any fashion. This past year we saw him take the best at bats of his career, use his athleticism on the bases and in the field, and noticed that he was less reckless with his body at the fence on on useless dives. He remains a remarkable athlete and is just coming into his prime, especially with an understanding of what pitchers want to do with him. Again, he has missed a ton of games and thus an incentive-laden contract. Trades? The best I have read/heard was not interesting to me. you can find them on every site of a team that wants a good centerfielder. Aaron Hicks for Byron Buxton was one idea, but not close to the worst. I'll leave it at that. The decision does rest with Pohlad. The one caveat, mentioned in a number of posts and replies, is whether Byron is focused on playing with the Twins. We don't have any idea about that, not even a clue from anything I have heard or read. Hopefully, a contract with incentives can be completed. All of the figuring with numbers does nothing to prove any point about whether Byron Buxton should remain with the Twins. The only way to compensate for his loss would be to sign a couple of available free agents like Starling Marte and Mark Canha for around $30-32 million and there is no guarantee that they wouldn't suffer career ending injuries next April. A rock and a hard place.

I keep remembering the Santana situation. I argued then that unless the Twins received a haul, the team would be better off with Johan pitching for the Twins. A trade of Buxton for players we already have and sticking Cave in CF hold no appeal. I agree with everything you said except I am willing to just see Buxton excel during the coming year for the Twins, even if he moves on to another team thereafter.

Shifting to the morose trade aspect of this debacle, we have to wonder what is available right now from another team. Is it another Joe Ryan? Does anyone have any thoughts? The suggestions from BTV, thus far, just add to our 40 person roster dilemmas or give us another ok (mediocre) guy like Urshela. Thoughts?

All of this ^ I dont under stand how no one else is seeing it this way. Completely agree. Well, here is an attempt at a short explanation. There is not a single prospect in baseball that has the combination of talents of Byron Buxton. He has a history of missing games though. Thus, the Twins will not return a single player from a trade of Byron who makes the Twins appreciably better now or in the future because teams will not risk sending their talent for an expensive one year oft-injured player. Byron Buxton has much more value to the Twins than to another team because without him the rebuild begins. Most Twins fans do not wish to watch or listen to a team that spends the next five years losing 90-120 games. Buxton might return a Trevor Larnach or Joe Ryan type player, but not multiples of those. These players are decent but will never reach the heights of Buxton. If you just want to rebuild, every player on the team making more than $1 million goes and in 5-7 years the Twins may or may not have a good team. Check on Baltimore. Your position is not irrational or uncommon, but those of us who watch most or nearly all of the Twins games have watched many dozens of prospects fail (Willie Banks, Joe Benson) and recognize the value of what is in hand. I hope you can see the keep Buxton side of an argument, even if you still don't believe in him.

You do make a valid point. Polanco is the Twins MVP and the most likely to bring back a good package of players or a pitcher. This would, however, signal a five year rebuilding plan. At that point one could then argue that Kepler, Rogers, Duffey, Sano, and Donaldson should all be traded for prospects. The payroll could be #25 million too. The Twins are currently about in the middle rankings of the MLB farm systems, but these trades would move them towards the top of team prospect rankings. I don't think this is a feasible idea. i do think Polanco is a real gem.

Buxton - no way. Falvey - why? Buxton could retire today and never look back. The Twins absolutely need Buxton. You only need to look at the W-L records of the Twins with and without Buxton. Tickets, ad sales, viewership - there is a ton on the line here. The Twins did not average as many fans last season as the Timberwolves drew to last night's game. The T-Wolves are terrible. Is that acceptable? We are all human and Falvey has misspoken. I will hope that things will take a turn for the positive.

The Twins have backed themselves into a corner. Perhaps their best option is to just sign him for 2022 and let him become a free agent.

This Buxton situation has completely stymied the Twins front office apparently. "I'm having a really hard time connecting the dots here." - This is almost everyone, both Twins fans and those who follow baseball around the country. Something is amiss and it is frustrating to wait for the other shoe to fall. As to the possibilities .... it seems what numbers were shared/published are likely real or quite close. The other three possibilities seem much more to the heart of the problem in signing Buxton: the Twins don't believe in Byron, he is ready to move, and the Twins do not intend to pay for a Buxton contract. Whew, this is too much to get our head around. I mean the Twins could put a team on the field that does better than last year's record for $100 million. That team would need to include Buxton, even if the bill for BB was $25 million (a quarter of the payroll). Without Buxton, the Twins need to go into a full rebuild like Baltimore or boost the payroll to $150 million. So many posts and the article in The Athletic puts a new twist in our expectations/hopes for Twins baseball. How is it possible that Falvey is still analyzing their own roster and wondering what to do? The quote from The Athletic was somewhat disturbing. “Now, we’re working through understanding all sides of this ultimately. We’ll proceed accordingly. At this stage of the offseason, we’re still just navigating our strategy and planning and trying to understand what’s available to us and what the market looks like on all periods. As is always the case, this isn’t unique to Byron or otherwise, there are people on our team that are interesting to other clubs and we just always need to work through what does that look like, what does our team look like as we navigate it.” This entire past year has been confusing. My default is to accept what Falvey sees as best for making the Twins competitive, even when I disagree. The unfolding of this drama with Buxton causes me to question. Yah, what the hell is going on?

This is so true. A subscription to mlb.com that is used is fair entertainment value. There are some fun teams and players to follow. Ohtani and Trout are amazing to watch. The Twins have been my team since they moved here in 1961 and my attention to their games will continue no matter the outcome of this offseason. However, I did have season tickets once upon a time and have attended a ton of games in the past. The expenditures of going to a game in person is not something I consider when the team is substandard. I just enjoy the game situations via radio and follow players on mlb.com. The Twins still have time for abundant moves this winter.

Twins fans love all three of these players. It is likely that a poll would value Garver and Arraez above Kepler. Personally, i like all three. However, the Twins have zero experienced pitchers heading into next season. The free agent market will not fill all of their needs, thus a few trades need to be completed. Regrettably, I would use both Garver and Arraez in trades. Kepler is a good outfielder and I'm interested in the Twins improving their defense, so i keep Kepler. That said, if Kepler is the player that returns a strong starting pitcher then even Magic Max goes. Parting with any of these players would be tough and if there was a way to find four pitchers without trading .... ok. I cannot configure any semblance of a decent roster for 2022 that does not include at least one significant trade.

Hmmm .... to be a fly on the wall. Apparently, Berrios did not meet some criteria for Falvey. 7/$131 is pretty close to the 5/$125 expected by several current free agents. I wonder what specific points clogged up negotiations between Berrios and the Twins. Stuff happens. Congratulations to Jose Berrios and his family and the Toronto Blue Jays. i hope this works well for all.

Yes, the Twins could swing a deal and they also should. Oakland has two pitchers to go after right now. There isn't any reason to wait. The prospect package for Bassitt, if amenable to Oakland, should be finished. Montas - yes. Why not both. TopGun#22 is right. The Twins need four decent starting pitchers. Miami, Oakland, and Milwaukee have pieces and the longer the Twins wait the more likely another team swoops in and completes a deal. Oakland is a particularly good trade partner for those who refuse to consider a trade of either Garver or Jeffers. Like others, Larnach is a player I'm hoping will interest Miami. Still, Bassitt is someone we could use this year as the inexperienced pitchers transition to the MLB hitters.

Nick, your post was fair and timely. The front office has done some good things with player acquisition and it should be acknowledged. Drowning in tears is not going to make anyone feel better or improve the roster. Now, the Twins are put to the task. They need to identify targets. I would argue they need to expand a little. It is understandable that many are not in favor of trading any prospects but other teams will only consider a few Twins players as worthy of an exchange. Free agency should be useful for a player or two, but it is essential to add at least one or two decent starting pitchers to lead the Twins young starters in their initiation into MLB action. Many have suggested a contract for Jon Gray and we now have an example of what it will take to sign such a player. The Twins could offer Gray exactly what Rodriguez just received from Detroit. Gray, Pineda, a trade with Miami, Oakland, or another team - the time is ripe. Great back and forth conversation by TD readers.

My hope was to pry away Alcantara and Meyer by enticing Miami with Lewis, in addition to Larnach, their choice of catcher, Canterino, and Strotman or Vallimont. Miami is not likely to give up Alcantara and the Twins do not want to part with Lewis, so the trade above by TopGun#22 is a huge boost for both Miami and Minnesota. It is cost effective for both teams too and allows both teams to consider buying a free agent or two. Suddenly, Gray, Pineda, and possibly Stroman are fits in a fair budget. The post was asking about Jeffers though and he is going to be a very decent MLB catcher. I have no concerns about his bat and am sure he will continue to improve as a catcher. I'm a little confused how someone can be down on him after just a year and a half. Catcher is far and away the most demanding and difficult position in baseball and he has held his own as a young player. If he remains a Twin, I am excited to see his continued growth. I will add that I may be higher than some others on Ben Rortvedt, especially his glove and arm. BR does need another half to full year of development however.

Ok. Thank you - you are correct. I guess I was caught remembering an article that MLB would reinstate their February 2020 decree of 13 person pitching staffs that was delayed due to Covid concerns. The CBA will sort this out, we hope.

Yes, a larger pitching staff could help with the plan. The CBA will have language on roster size and I believe MLB currently caps pitching squads at 13. Going to larger numbers may hurt more teams than it helps as better financed teams could stash more players than they currently do. In any event, it is complex and the idea is evolving. The Rays had so many young pitchers this year and this accounted for some of their usage patterns. The Twins might see that pattern as beneficial to introducing Duran, Winder, Balazovic, and more. Time will shape the reality, but I'm still in favor of 25 man rosters.

Great post Andrew. St. Peter has been a good community citizen and his story is encouraging to all young people.