Dump Gardenhire now.

[Guest USAFChief]

I think everybody just collectively *sighed* and decided there had been enough trauma for one night.

Probably true, and not in a good way. When fans can't even work up a good rant anymore, how long before they stop watching altogether?

[ThePuck]

We have some idea now that Correia's max effectiveness is roughly 6 to 7 innings.

 

 

I think some kind of figured that before we ever got him...

[70charger]

I think some kind of figured that before we ever got him...

 

Also true. But now we have proof!

 

 

Yeah, science!

[howeda7]

Not as bad this time, but I don't think you can send him back out there for the 8th. We have some idea now that Correia's max effectiveness is roughly 6 to 7 innings.

 

Frankly, I'm surprised this thread wasn't blowing up again last night.

 

Even though we tied it, it never felt like a game we were going to win. Sending Corriea out for the 8th was a mistake, but I don't think we ever had more than a 40% chance of winning it.

[Nick Nelson]

Holding the manager accountable every time a starter goes out and gives up a lead in the 7th/8th seems kind of silly to me. Even if we don't want to admit it, these opinions are almost always formed in hindsight. Bullpens give up leads sometimes too.

[Guest USAFChief]

Holding the manager accountable every time a starter goes out and gives up a lead in the 7th/8th seems kind of silly to me. Even if we don't want to admit it, these opinions are almost always formed in hindsight. Bullpens give up leads sometimes too.

 

Speaking only for myself, I formed none of the opinions I've expressed in this thread in hindsight. Well, maybe the opinion that Gardenhire has outlived his usefulness has been formed in retrospect, but none of the specific opinions about pitching changes. All were made (admittedly from the exteme easy position of my family room) prior to the outcome.

 

They weren't that hard to predict, which is why they anger me, and I wouldn't have complained were those leads coughed up by appropriate relievers. I rarely second guess "which reliever" is in the game. I'm on record here and elsewhere stating that ALL relievers in a pen are going to be forced into high leverage situations over the course of a season, and you therefore need a deep pen if you really hope to have a good one.

 

Reliever blowing game late almost always is on the reliever, not the manager. Starter blowing game late is almost always on the manager, IMO.

[Thrylos]

Reliever blowing game late almost always is on the reliever, not the manager. Starter blowing game late is almost always on the manager, IMO.

 

Agree about the second part, but if someone is allowing Brian Duensing to face Miguel Cabrera or a soft tossing righty to face big Papi, it is on the manager.

[greengoblinrulz]

It's more Gardy's philosiphy that I would like changed after 10 yrs.

I get it that there is a difference in players, BUT....Vance Worley is pulled after 6IP w/99pitches, while Clay Bucholtz starts the 7th w/98pitches & breezes thru the 7th finishing with 110.

Keeps the burden off the middle relievers but Gardy/Andy will never change the way they handle their pitchers.

[The Greatest Poster Alive]

It's more Gardy's philosiphy that I would like changed after 10 yrs.

I get it that there is a difference in players, BUT....Vance Worley is pulled after 6IP w/99pitches, while Clay Bucholtz starts the 7th w/98pitches & breezes thru the 7th finishing with 110.

Keeps the burden off the middle relievers but Gardy/Andy will never change the way they handle their pitchers.

 

Worley needed a confidence building start. He got through 6 good innings... no need to risk all that progress being lost in one bad inning.

[Guest USAFChief]

It's more Gardy's philosiphy that I would like changed after 10 yrs.

I get it that there is a difference in players, BUT....Vance Worley is pulled after 6IP w/99pitches, while Clay Bucholtz starts the 7th w/98pitches & breezes thru the 7th finishing with 110.

Keeps the burden off the middle relievers but Gardy/Andy will never change the way they handle their pitchers.

Speaking only for myself (again), I thought Gardy handled the pitching changes just fine tonight. I wouldn't have sent Worley out for the 7th, and from there he made reasonable moves as well.

[70charger]

It's more Gardy's philosiphy that I would like changed after 10 yrs.

I get it that there is a difference in players, BUT....Vance Worley is pulled after 6IP w/99pitches, while Clay Bucholtz starts the 7th w/98pitches & breezes thru the 7th finishing with 110.

Keeps the burden off the middle relievers but Gardy/Andy will never change the way they handle their pitchers.

 

Worley and Bucholtz are not on the same level, and surely not close this year. Pitch count is an individual thing. I think we've seen that Correia is only useful until about 100. Pelfrey's got 70-85 in him. Hernandez may be similar. Honestly, I don't think you're getting anything more than 99 out of Worley at this point.