John Shipley: Florimon has team weighing move for Dozier

[Riverbrian]

However... When making a point like you are making about hitting Shortstops being the lifeblood of winning baseball teams... You also have to go to the other side. Tulo hits the snot out of the ball and the Rockies are in last place. Rutledge has been hitting very well in his absence. The Rockies ain't dancing. Aviles hits pretty well for a SS... The Red Sox aint dancing... Escobar has been fantastic for the Royals... Royals ain't making the playoffs this year. What about that Asdrubal guy in Northern Ohio. Jose Reyes in Miami... Damn fine hitter... Rollins in Philly... That Castro kid playing on the North Side of Chicago... Oh my God he is as good as they come at the plate. Now Lowrie has been hurt a bit but he's got a decent stroke for Houston. His Average needs to come up but he can find the Crawford Boxes.

 

We may have to take a show of Twins Daily hands... But I'm willing to say that my list of Hitting Shortstops on the losing teams is stronger than your list of hitting Shortstops on Winning teams.

 

Wow, it sounds to me like there's a lot more plus-offensive shortstops in the league than I thought. I'm sure that all those teams that have good hitting shortstops and aren't in contention have problems beyond that position.

 

But when you list the good-hitting shortstops on the good teams, and then go on to list all the good-hitting shortstops on the bad teams, too... it makes me think that going with a Florimon at that position is putting the team at a disadvantage.

 

Yes... The Teams not in contention have problems beyond the SS Position... Just like the Twins...

 

I don't know if Florimon is the guy... I won't claim it... Let's see what he does... He has moments where he looks like a defensive wizard and that encourages me but not enough to say case closed.

 

My thoughts on the SS position for 2013 in the context of the current Twins... We need pitching and when putting arms out there and buidling our staff... We need to support that position and give it every chance to succeed and that means defense. Defense can stop the big inning from happening... Suspect Defense can prolong innings and cause big crooked numbers.

 

ERA is effected by those occasional big innings more than anything else. A SS that can get to balls that others can't is a huge factor because they stop those big innings from happening. It's all about making outs.

 

You saw what happened yesterday on the Florimon boot. 6 Runs in one inning for the White Sox. Yes I know it's odd that I would use a Florimon misplay in defense of Florimon defense.

 

Off all the SS's I have seen this year for the Twins... Florimon gets to more balls and makes more plays. Of the options... He appears to be the guy who can best support a pitching staff and our pitching staff is going to need all the help it can get. I'm hoping the error on the routine ball will calm down. If it doesn't... The Twins will move on to the next option.

 

If the SS position was all about hitting. Teams would just put there backup 3B at SS and let it roll. Defense supports pitching... Pitchers with a 5 plus ERA could have an ERA in the 4's... If the SS or OF would have simply gotten to a ball to stop a 4 5 or 6 run inning from happening.

[Thegrin]

This is what we have coming from New Britain (AA) and Fort Myers (A). Do they look like the next great hope for the Twins ?

 

[TABLE]

[TD=width: 81]Player [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]POS [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]G [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]AB [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]R [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]H [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]2B [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]3B [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]HR [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]RBI [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]TB [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]BB [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]SO [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]SB [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]CS [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]OBP [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]SLG [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]AVG [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]OPS [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]E [/TD]

Estarlin De Los Santos

SS

100

287

38

62

9

1

2

24

79

17

59

8

6

0.277

0.275

0.216

0.552

14

James Beresford

2B

114

369

38

98

12

3

0

25

116

35

53

3

3

0.33

0.314

0.266

0.644

10

[/TD]

[TD]

Daniel Santana

SS

121

507

70

145

21

9

8

60

208

29

77

17

11

0.329

0.41

0.286

0.739

26

Levi Michael

SS

117

431

58

106

14

4

2

38

134

56

82

6

0

0.339

0.311

0.246

0.65

16

[/TABLE]

[snepp]

I'm an advocate of defensive metrics and even I would say that using them to determine a sample of 25 games is worse than useless. They can be terribly misleading over that SSS.

 

About the equivalent of a week's worth of at-bats.

[DAM DC Twins Fans]

A Plouffe-Florimon-Carrol-Dozier 2B-SS-3B infield is pretty mediocre defensively and not much to brag about offensively. Twins either have a weakness drafting talent or in developing and instructing defense in these positions.

 

I am hopeful that either Dozier or Florimon will improve defensively and take the SS job this spring. Yes, the Twins seem to have a problem with middle IF and pitching development. Guys who sign originally in Middle IF (Cuddyer, Plouffe, Sano) seem to move to other positions if they develop, otherwise they become mediocre. Hopefully, this will change with either Florimon or Dozier, but odds are not better than 5050. Middle IF will help pitching--so maybe Twins should look for a trade (like Elvis or Kinsler from Texas).

[Shane Wahl]

With regard to Stephen Drew, from 2008 to 2010 he was a good hitter for his position, and every year other than this he has been significantly better than any other option the Twins have. And even in 2012 he has been better than some of them.

 

With regard to Florimon, he seems to really get down on himself. This is the opposite of Casilla who doesn't appear to care. Florimon is a make-the-spectacular-plays-and-miss-the-routine-plays kind of shortstop and Jamey Carroll is the EXACT opposite. Pick your poison defensively. Carroll is creeping up offensively as well. Florimon has only 99 plate appearances with the Twins this year. Calm the hell down.

 

With regard to Dozier, obviously he is a second baseman. That has been clear this year. It's a good thing the Twins called him up again to play there in September. Oh wait. Well, it's a good thing after his demotion to Rochester he played 2B. Oh wait.

 

What the hell?

 

Anyway, it is a bit clownish to worry about this right now. Starting pitching is all that matters right now. There is nothing wrong with a Florimon-Dozier-Carroll MI situation next year. Willingham and Plouffe provide RH power, Doumit and Parmelee will supply some LH power, and Span, Revere, and Mauer are the table setters.

 

Hey GM Shane!

 

What did you get in trade for Morneau?

 

Depends on the team. Boston: a top 10 Boston pitching prospect (AA-AAA) and some position player . . .

[Shane Wahl]

This is what we have coming from New Britain (AA) and Fort Myers (A). Do they look like the next great hope for the Twins ?

 

[TABLE]

Player

[TD=width: 81]POS [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]G [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]AB [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]R [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]H [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]2B [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]3B [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]HR [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]RBI [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]TB [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]BB [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]SO [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]SB [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]CS [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]OBP [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]SLG [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]AVG [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]OPS [/TD]

[TD=width: 81]E [/TD]

Estarlin De Los Santos

SS

100

287

38

62

9

1

2

24

79

17

59

8

6

0.277

0.275

0.216

0.552

14

James Beresford

2B

114

369

38

98

12

3

0

25

116

35

53

3

3

0.33

0.314

0.266

0.644

10

[/TD]

[TD]

Daniel Santana

SS

121

507

70

145

21

9

8

60

208

29

77

17

11

0.329

0.41

0.286

0.739

26

Levi Michael

SS

117

431

58

106

14

4

2

38

134

56

82

6

0

0.339

0.311

0.246

0.65

16

[/TABLE]

 

I would be pretty shocked if De Los Santos isn't released. He is completely terrible. I am not worried about Levi Michael for the time being. Beresford has a low ceiling. He's basically a better fielding Jamey Carroll. Danny Santana might be the best of the bunch and I am very curious to see what he does at AA next year.

[Shane Wahl]

In reality the Twins need to "weird science" these three and take Dozier's brain and bat, Florimon's range and arm, and Carroll's fundamentals and plate discipline and make one SS . . . model.

 

Impossible? Well, just as likely as the Twins signing a FA SS or trading for one.