OFFICIAL (UNOFFICIAL) OFFICIAL PHILLY MINNESOTA VIKINGS PRE GAME MEET UP

[Mr. Brooks]

By virtually every metric, in an era of offensive domination, we were historically good.

They didn't even have the best pass defense THIS YEAR. The Jags did, and by a healthy margin too.

[TheLeviathan]

 

They didn't even have the best pass defense THIS YEAR. The Jags did, and by a healthy margin too.

 

They were second against the pass, second against the run, and had a 3rd down percentage not seen since the purple people eaters.

 

I'm not sure what you want them to do to be a super bowl caliber defense?  Sack someone the day before?  Give up negative yardage?

 

Something went really wrong the last 6 quarters, but that's an outlier relative to the rest of the season.

[DaveW]

I think it came down to scheming and injuries. Zimmer was outcoached plain and simple.

 

Also Everson, Rhodes, Barr, Sendejo and even Smith all looked way less than 100%

 

Additionally our CBs not named Wayne’s and Rhodes looked like absolute ****.

 

They gotta figure out how to find at least a solid 3rd CB.

 

It just sucks the D let them down, and it also exposed the offense as a team that absolutely is not made to come from behind. Which is why you absolutely let Case Keenum walk.

[TheLeviathan]

I also think we got badly outcoached.  I like Mike Zimmer, but I do think that was the case last night.

[DaveW]

It shows why Zimmer is 1-10 in his last 11 playoff games.

 

Sadly I’m afraid he is just yet another ‘transitional’ coach for this team.

 

I fully expect us to go 5-11 and 7-9 the next two years and him be fired.

 

Just like Green, Tice, Chilly etc

 

Don’t get me wrong I like Zimmer and hope he succeeds, but Man, did he get outclassed.

[Vanimal46]

It shows why Zimmer is 1-10 in his last 11 playoff games.

 

Sadly I’m afraid he is just yet another ‘transitional’ coach for this team.

 

I fully expect us to go 5-11 and 7-9 the next two years and him be fired.

 

Just like Green, Tice, Chilly etc

 

Don’t get me wrong I like Zimmer and hope he succeeds, but Man, did he get outclassed.

I'm concerned the hangover from this loss will linger into next season... Just like "unfinished business" in 2010, the team wasn't the same and they blew it all up.

[Mr. Brooks]

They were second against the pass, second against the run, and had a 3rd down percentage not seen since the purple people eaters.

 

I'm not sure what you want them to do to be a super bowl caliber defense? Sack someone the day before? Give up negative yardage?

 

Something went really wrong the last 6 quarters, but that's an outlier relative to the rest of the season.

The comment you quoted isn't in regard to them being a SB caliber defense.

Smith and Rhodes are future HOF, in their prime, and top 2 or 3 in the NFL at their positions. If the other half of your secondary are both "really good" as you say, then they should have one of the, if not the best pass defense in the history of the league. You replied that they do. They don't. They don't even have the best pass defense this year.

You can't be the best of all time, if you're not even the best of this season.

 

With Waynes, I could see a big contract down the line from us or someone else. He's improving, and quality cornerbacks are hard to find.

But if someone ever gives Sendejo a mega contract reflective of a really good player, I'll eat my hat. I just don't buy it. What does he do so well? It certainly isn't tackling, he's atrocious in that regard.

[TheLeviathan]

 

The comment you quoted isn't in regard to them being a SB caliber defense.
Smith and Rhodes are future HOF, in their prime, and top 2 or 3 in the NFL at their positions. If the other half of your secondary are both "really good" as you say, then they should have one of the, if not the best pass defense in the history of the league. You replied that they do. They don't. They don't even have the best pass defense this year.
You can't be the best of all time, if you're not even the best of this season.

With Waynes, I could see a big contract down the line from us or someone else. He's improving, and quality cornerbacks are hard to find.
But if someone ever gives Sendejo a mega contract reflective of a really good player, I'll eat my hat. I just don't buy it. What does he do so well? It certainly isn't tackling, he's atrocious in that regard.

 

So you think, in this day and age of passing football, that two great players and two good players are sufficient to be the greatest of all time?  That's just not realistic.

 

I think you're really struggling for some clarity on a lot here and venting more out of emotion IMO.  And the proof of that is sorta evident with your Sendejo remarks.  We gave Sendejo a short deal for 4M a year.  Which is what you pay "good" players.  So yes, no one is going to break the bank for him.  But he's a good player and he's being paid to reflect that.

 

And yes, the Jags had a better pass defense this year.  In part because people could gash them in the running game and they didn't have to pass on them.  

[Badsmerf]

Why is there a consensus that Waynes is good? I'd put him average. Still, even if he is good, you need another average corner. A great corner, good corner, and disasters is not good enough. Add another at least average corner, a good d lineman and see how the defense looks.

 

The offense is pretty clear too. The line struggled despite playing well all year. Maybe an upgrade at guard. Cook will be back, and will hopefully add another dimension Murray and McKinnon don't have. I don't see diggs and theilen being big time guys. There are obviously flaws with keenum too. I don't think there is a contest between teddy, Bradford or keenum. Keenum wins that job. It should be keenum vs a free agent, and at a good price.

[Mr. Brooks]

So you think, in this day and age of passing football, that two great players and two good players are sufficient to be the greatest of all time? That's just not realistic.

 

I think you're really struggling for some clarity on a lot here and venting more out of emotion IMO. And the proof of that is sorta evident with your Sendejo remarks. We gave Sendejo a short deal for 4M a year. Which is what you pay "good" players. So yes, no one is going to break the bank for him. But he's a good player and he's being paid to reflect that.

 

And yes, the Jags had a better pass defense this year. In part because people could gash them in the running game and they didn't have to pass on them.

Well before you said he was really good. He was the 248th highest paid player in football this year. I guess my standard for a really good player is a much smaller percentile of the league than you. It's a small contract for a FA player.

 

If the Jags are only good against the pass because teams don't need to pass against them, that seems like a really dumb strategy, since they made it just as far as we did. I could see that argument if they were 3-13 or something.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Well before you said he was really good. He was the 248th highest paid player in football this year. I guess my standard for a really good player is a much smaller percentile of the league than you. It's a small contract for a FA player.

If the Jags are only good against the pass because teams don't need to pass against them, that seems like a really dumb strategy, since they made it just as far as we did. I could see that argument if they were 3-13 or something.

 

It can be true that the Jags were very good against the pass and true that their numbers are helped by the fact that they had a bad run defense.  

 

The Vikings were good at both.  And their numbers on third down are maybe the best indicator of all on just how good they were as a unit against the pass.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Why is there a consensus that Waynes is good? I'd put him average. Still, even if he is good, you need another average corner. A great corner, good corner, and disasters is not good enough. Add another at least average corner, a good d lineman and see how the defense looks.

The offense is pretty clear too. The line struggled despite playing well all year. Maybe an upgrade at guard. Cook will be back, and will hopefully add another dimension Murray and McKinnon don't have. I don't see diggs and theilen being big time guys. There are obviously flaws with keenum too. I don't think there is a contest between teddy, Bradford or keenum. Keenum wins that job. It should be keenum vs a free agent, and at a good price.

 

Newman wasn't a disaster.  He was solid.  You don't end up giving up less than 200 yards a game through the air regularly playing "disasters".  

 

And yeah, from about the 3rd/4th game on....Waynes was good despite a heavy amount of targets.  Really good against the run too.

[Mr. Brooks]

Newman wasn't a disaster. He was solid. You don't end up giving up less than 200 yards a game through the air regularly playing "disasters".

 

And yeah, from about the 3rd/4th game on....Waynes was good despite a heavy amount of targets. Really good against the run too.

I think he's assuming Newman retires, and the disaster guy is Alexander.

 

Edit: Just realized he pluralized disaster, so maybe not.

[Mr. Brooks]

It can be true that the Jags were very good against the pass and true that their numbers are helped by the fact that they had a bad run defense.

 

The Vikings were good at both. And their numbers on third down are maybe the best indicator of all on just how good they were as a unit against the pass.

But the Jags weren't just the best against the pass. They were the best by an insane margin. The gulf from 1st to 2nd is as wide as the gulf from 2nd to 13th is.

[TheLeviathan]

 

But the Jags weren't just the best against the pass. They were the best by an insane margin. The gulf from 1st to 2nd is as wide as the gulf from 2nd to 13th is.

 

Teams ran on them for an average of 120 yards per game.  They were a below average run defense.  

 

They gave up roughly 35-40 yards more a game on the ground than we did, which accounts for that gap.  

 

But the Jags were great - they have two amazing CBs.  To give up anything less than 200 yards per game in the air in this era of football is great.  Plain and simple.  And Sendejo, Waynes, and Newman are part of that too.

[DaveW]

Waynes was really really good this year. The Vikings have the best secondary in football heading into next year, but they still need to aim a bit higher. Newman was 'meh' but he needs to probably retired. Alexander was terrible, but he's young, and Waynes was dreadful early on as well. So maybe Zim can work some magic with him.

I'd still look for another solid nickel type guy.