Manchester Bombing

[twinsnorth49]

 

The Manchester bomber should have been deported, along with his entire terrorist family, pursuant to his open declarations of support for and intent to commit terrorist acts. That would have been a major reduction in life lost to terrorism.

 

It would have been quite easy. 

Naturally.

 

Jodie Marsh....is that you?

[DaveW]

I didn't intend for this thread to delve into this nonsense, TD is usually better than that.

But we can play the blame game all day long. The US/UK certainly have had plenty of **** ups in re: to the middle east (*cough Iran *cough), and that whole debacle of where to put the Jewish population after world war 2....

[Mr. Brooks]

The Manchester bomber should have been deported, along with his entire terrorist family, pursuant to his open declarations of support for and intent to commit terrorist acts. That would have been a major reduction in life lost to terrorism.

 

It would have been quite easy.

 

Is it legal in England to deport a natural born citizen?

[drivlikejehu]

 

Is it legal in England to deport a natural born citizen?

 

Fair point, I forgot his place of birth. So he could only have been jailed. That would have made it harder for him to subsequently leave and re-enter the country as he got terrorism training in Libya and wherever else, though.

[biggentleben]

 

I question my faith everyday. Is it worth it or is it not? I have a different answer everyday.

 

I've yet to find the base of a world religion that doesn't encourage its believers to do the same every day. The issue is the believers and how they twist that base. I will tell you that I begin every day questioning my own faith and taking the time to spend in silent meditation to listen for answers. The biggest issue is when we take the base of the faith in questioning who we are, where we come from, and what our role in this life (and conceivably the next) truly is and turn it into a tool, and sometimes a weapon, that we use for personal advancement, socializing, and also exclusion.

[PseudoSABR]

 

This a confusing post because it seems to conflate the US and UK. You refer to "our" borders, but I at least am not a UK citizen - are you? 

 

Nor does the UK have any such thing as "constitutional scrutiny," so this concept would only apply in the US, not the UK.

 

The UK has no doctrine of "probable cause" or anything equivalent. But even if they did, there was more than enough evidence to act:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/24/father-brother-manchester-bomber-arrested-libya/

 

It's not so much that there's a formal, detailed "conspiracy" to enable would-be terrorists, as there is a broad ideological aversion to taking the necessary steps to address the issue. Those ideological reasons are closely related to the refusal to act in the cases of sexual abuse of children by Muslim pedophiles.

 

To be fair, this is a cross-party issue. It is absolutely not a legal issue. Authorities in the UK have broad discretion to act under their existing police and sovereign powers.

The reason why there's an aversion to take what you call necessary steps is because those steps are not allowed under the law.   No law enforcement officer refuses to act on enough evidence to arrest for pedophilia or terrorism.   Having violent and extremist views in and of itself does not constitute a crime, at least in free societies.  

 

Although the British have a lower standard for arrest (reasonable suspicion) and different rights, there's nothing in the facts we know to suggest that there was enough to make an arrest on charges for a particular crime.  Again, expressing radical views, even violent views, without a particularized threat, does not constitute a crime in any free society.  

 

 

 

 

  

 

[PseudoSABR]

 

The Manchester bomber should have been deported, along with his entire terrorist family, pursuant to his open declarations of support for and intent to commit terrorist acts. That would have been a major reduction in life lost to terrorism.

 

It would have been quite easy. 

How is it that you believe this would be legal?  Cite to some authority that Britain could have done any of this.  Expressing--even awful ideas--doesn't not provide the basis to deprive someone of liberty.   Another small problem, you can't deport citizens. 

[PseudoSABR]

 

Fair point, I forgot his place of birth. So he could only have been jailed. That would have made it harder for him to subsequently leave and re-enter the country as he got terrorism training in Libya and wherever else, though.

No, he couldn't have.  Show me where speaking in support of terrorism/suicide-bombing generally is crime.  

 

Hate-speech and threat crimes demand a specific threat and a likelihood of following through/imminent harm.  What this guy said five years ago did not provide the basis for an arrest.  If you can point to an actual legal authority that says otherwise, I'm all ears.  

[Otto von Ballpark]

"Even where fun is No. 1, Saints tighten security in wake of Manchester terror attack"

 

http://m.startribune.com/even-where-fun-is-no-1-saints-add-tighter-security-in-wake-of-manchester-terror-attack/424936373/?section=%2F

 

Didn't the Manchester attack happen outside the venue?

 

Guessing the Saints will be using this extra security to confiscate outside food and beverage more than anything else...

[drivlikejehu]

 

No, he couldn't have.  Show me where speaking in support of terrorism/suicide-bombing generally is crime.  

 

Hate-speech and threat crimes demand a specific threat and a likelihood of following through/imminent harm.  What this guy said five years ago did not provide the basis for an arrest.  If you can point to an actual legal authority that says otherwise, I'm all ears.  

 

Your understanding of hate speech laws isn't correct. In the US, there is no crime without action. In the UK, the speech itself is criminalized. You've continually conflated the laws of the two countries, if you'd like to look it up, feel free.

 

Also, the FBI had specific information the bomber was planning an attack, albeit not at a great level of detail:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4548892/FBI-warned-MI5-Manchester-bomber-planning-attack.html