ewen21

I am glad that you did. What a brilliant post!

"You would be forgiven if you simply chose to forget any Twins player between 2011 and 2017 not named Joe Mauer" I would love to forget the 2011 version of Joe Mauer. It was pretty ugly

It's hard to call Mauer a catcher when you look at his entire body of work. Literally 40% of his work was at first base and DH. That wasn't the case with Gary Carter, Yogi Berra, Mike Piazza, or even John Bench (who played multiple positions). There is something to that. We have to be mindful of the fact that the catcher angle only applies to 60% of his career, so when people generalize and speak about the totality of his career it is flawed. We cannot put him in the same category as the great catchers for that reason. Considerations need to get made. It doesn't matter if they aren't made here or even if that concept is accepted here. It WILL factor into the judging process when writers from around the country vote and if Mauer isn't inducted I really don't want to see this place go berserk. The HOF isn't that important to me unless a guy gets totally robbed. If Mauer isn't inducted in the first round or even the second or third we should not be angry or shocked. He is borderline to me. His production dropped way too soon after that amazing 2009 season

It is widely stated here that Mauer's concussions ruined his career. I don't dispute that on its face, however, that was not the case in 2011 (where he was greatly diminished). The first known/documented concussion he had was in 2013. Then in 2016 he stated that he continued to have symptoms for several years afterward. If we are to take Joe at his word, that he felt post-concussion effects for that long....how is it nothing was noted by the medical staff? With matters such as this isn't it incumbent upon the player to be forthright with the medical staff? Why was he still catching? The concussion issues are part of it, but Mauer did himself in as well--in my opinion. He wasn't one to embrace strength and conditioning and he refused to change his approach. He looked weak when he came in for the 2011 and I saw that right away. Not sure what happened to him that winter between 2010-2011, but maybe the pressure of the contract and getting swept by the Yankees again rocked his world emotionally? It sure felt like it to me..

Some rather bold statements in here, but I agree with them. I totally agree with you on Zoilo. THat was the year before I was born so I didn't see what happened, but looking at the numbers the whole thing seems odd. As far as Mauer was concerned. I get what you are saying. He really wasn't a game wrecker like Piazza was or a leader (important for a catcher) and power bat like Carter and Bench. He played most of his career with a table setter's mindset. Matty Alou hit over .330 in four consecutive seasons--from 1966 to 1969. That is great, but give me what Harmon did those years over Matty Alou. That said, Mauer in 2009 was unbelievable and I think Piazza, Bench and Carter had seasons that rival and perhaps surpass what Mauer did in 2009. My trouble with Mauer is this... A lot of people like to say he was "victimized" by Target Field but that doesn't hold up to the actual evidence. When you watch the clip of all of his 2009 home runs (and watch it ALL) it is readily apparent that he hit at least a dozen home runs to center and right field and a good bunch of them went way over the wall. In the entire rest of his career I do not know if he hit that many home runs to those parts of the field. Watch this here and tell me that Mauer didn't hit some monstrous shots to CF and RF. I count about 12 absolute bombs to CF and RF with at least three upper deckers to right field. Sure, he hit a lot of HRs too left that barely made it over the wall, but if you subtract ALL OF THOSE (which is ridiculous) he still has 12 or 13 home runs that were not hit to left field at all. He hit a couple of deep deep bombs to center in NY, a couple in Texas and a couple in Anaheim. He hit six or seven moonshots to right and CF in the Dome: The truth about Joe's home run decline is that he decided to become a table setter. He was all about slapping the ball to left and grinding out walks. Given the money he was paid and what was expected when he signed that contract it is kind of weak, in my opinion.

I am sorry, but getting swept by Oakland in the first round really kills it for me. As great as that comeback was and as breath taking the stretch run was we did nothing with it in the end and I look back on 2006 as a damn shame. I was OK with calling that a successful season at the time, but I can't look at it that way now.

I was born in 1966 so I cannot say I saw Koufax play, but I appreciate what older intelligent baseball lovers have told me over the years. He pitched in a four man rotation and started many more games than Santana did. The most innings Santana pitched in one season was more than 100 innings LESS than Koufax's most innings in a season. In the postseason his ERA was under 1.00 in 57 innings. Oh I know...."small sample size". It matters! I hear Yankee fans grouse about Kirby Puckett getting in and Don Mattingly not. You don't think titles make a difference? This didn't need to get so sour grapes and turn into an indictment on Koufax by guys who weren't even alive until a couple of decades after he retired with an elbow that couldn't be repaired at age 30.

I love Johan Santana. He was my favorite Twins player from when he first became a starter to the very end (especially after he ripped Twins management for putting "the future" ahead of right now). That being said, I am not even trying to hear this "Sandy Koufax is the most overrated..." stuff. It is this kind of stuff, quite frankly, that makes this place seem trite because it is sour grapes BS and Koufax doesn't deserve that. Winning sure as heck matters and Koufax is referenced as the guy who probably had the best stuff and the best stretch a pitcher ever had in the modern era. No reason to go to that tired refrain about Johan not garnering the necessary respect because he played in Minnesota. It isn't a good look, in my opinion.

I am sorry, but everyone outlives their usefulness and that is what happened with Ryan. You can say he was a great scout of talent back in the day and that he did "a lot of great things for the organization", but to deny his incompetence in the end is a bit absurd to me. YOU ARE CORRECT. The Twins were WAY LATE to adapt to change. What the heck is baseball without the dynamic nature of the game? It changes and that is an absolute which must be understood and acknowledged. Ryan refused to do so. The fact is, no matter how unpleasant it is for you to hear, Ryan was fired because he was not fit for the job any longer and we all knew it the day he stepped down in 2007. He even said so himself. Nobody told Ryan to come back, but he did. He stepped away when it was time to deal with Torii and Johan and then came back after Mauer was signed; BUT only when the team completely cratered. It was your standard "low risk, high reward" move that defined Ryan. I guess he figured....the team is already blown up, so how can I screw it up worse? And he did! Had Ryan simply walked away in 2007 and rode off into the sunset as a behind the scenes guy then maybe I can understand your dismay over how Ryan gets vilified. However, he came back when we were safely in a nuclear winter and did even more damage after he came back. Need I summarize his asinine moves of the second tenure?

When I think hitter I think the spectrum of offensive production and Harmon gave us more than what Knoblauch did, in my opinion. Thanks

I understand they are different players with different skill sets, but it isn't very hard (in my opinion) to make a holistic judgment without much introspection in this case. When making this comparison, I view it this way. If I had to draft one or the other in my first pick to start a team I am picking Harmon over Knoblauch without hesitation (and that is no slight on Knobby).

Better to me means most impactful hitters. Matty Alou hit over .330 in four consecutive seasons and hardly anyone mentions it. Why? Because as extraordinarily impressive as that was he was basically a singles hitter. As dated as the quote may be, I think Ralph Kiner may have said it best: "Singles hitters drive Fords, home run hitters drive Cadillacs"

While Knoblauch was a great hitter for average and stole a lot of bases he should never be compared to Killebrew even in a "best hitter' category. I respect your knowledge and your considerate demeanor, but what criteria are you using if you feel Knoblauch warrants a comparison to Harmon? It honestly doesn't even matter what aspects of their offensive game you want to emphasize.

We have a near pandemic the likes we’ve never seen, but a least we don’t need to worry about whether or not Byron Buxton is ready. We wouldn’t miss a beat without him if you ask me. Yeah he provides great defense but it isn’t like he’s a catcher or a shortstop. He simply doesn’t see enough opportunities to make his glove as much of a presence as what I read here. He makes a difference, but when he’s barely getting on base and not hitting much (which is pretty common) he hurts us as much as he helps. He could breathe a sigh of relief, I guess. The man has a .567 OPS for his career in April. As far as the sentiment about him not getting at bats during ST was OK since there was concern about him getting hurt really is counterintuitive thinking. If you feel that way then you basically have asserted he’s destined to be hurt.

Why are you telling me what I should do? I am not going to stop watching baseball because the Astros cheated. You make no sense. I will say, I did stop watching baseball for almost five years after the strike. If something like that happens again then perhaps I will, but why in the world would I allow the Astros scandal make me stop watching? This is about the Astros not being punished for me. And if players want to administer their own form of punishment, I probably will be behind it for a little while. And I might even get a little enjoyment out of some of it, as sinister as that sounds. Baseball is not real life to me. I have a family, a profession and a life. Baseball is a show to me and with the money these guys make and with how insulated their worlds are I am going to shred players in the occasional rant. Do you feel the need to close all of that down? You are no fun

Arraez is not "light hitting" One who hits .334 with a 123 OPS+ should not deserve such a designation as you've assigned.

Ben Revere's goofiness might best embody what I couldn't take about the early 2010s Twins teams. Somehow people found his smile charming. I found it to be thoroughly annoying

I take issue with the title. I could not get past it and needed to post my 100% disagreement with the mention of these two names together. This is not a good way to start a discussion about Luis Arraez. He had a .828 OPS last year, Ben Revere had a .661 OPS. TO compare the two is call Arraez toothless after a single half season where he played brilliantly. He also mananged to hit 4 home runs and Revere needed over 2,000 at bats to get there. I will read the article and then see if it's even worth another response. Sorry, Ted....not sure how or why you decided this should be the launching off point for a discussion.

I am not looking at it from a player perspective. Why would anyone here look at this issue from that perspective? If you want to go there then I would submit to you that a great number of players are pretty ornery over this. And PLEASE. Don't classify this in the same group as Joe Niekro filing down baseballs or individuals operating on their own. The logic and reasoning applied in this case isn't a one size fits all thing. Just as in law distinctions are made between different circumstances. You cannot disprove logic by superimposing it over multiple circumstances where the logic doesn't work. IN this case there were so many layers to the cheating, so many people attached to the team were complicit in this. When you say something like, "if you’re gonna ban everyone who breaks the rules" you are really dumbing this down. Honestly you are. This all boils down to the fact that these players were not punished. There is an assumption that it cannot be proven who was and was not involved. I call BS on that one. Baseball simply doesn't want to sink a franchise so they've swept it under the rug.

Agreed. What I do not understand is that some feel criticism (such as what I presented here) should be curbed. How is that? People who are coming from that angle are essentially saying players deserve no criticism. At all....because it is too speculative and too judgmental. To hit back at criticism in this case? Honestly. Get over it and let people rip these a-holes

Am I being too judgmental?

I am saying what I would do. It would send the message: YOU ARE NOT WELCOME in my clubhouse. Is it harsh? Maybe it is. Then again, I am not trying to convince you or anyone to endorse what I have said. Are we OK still? I hope so, because I kind of enjoy your posts (sometimes)

Uh, there is a distinction I make between taking PEDs and being part of a team-wide cheating scandal. Those guys did it and deserve a strike. Another strike and I would want to cut ties. The other thing about it is all of those other players suffered consequences. Marwin has not. You do understand this, right?

How is Gonzalez necessary to win a ring? I get that he has 10.5 left on his contract this year and we aren't going to just throw it away, but I know I would. His game is no better than Adrianza's and I think it is important to send a message to all Twins players that this bullsh*t is not tolerated here. Not sure how or why that is a crazy notion. Tell him he can keep his check and just leave.

Kirby Puckett never played in under 145 games 9 years in a row. That alone makes this hopeful comparison completely off base, in my opinion. He isn't going to suddenly develop into a durable player, and in fact, as he goes into his 26 year old season he is player entering his statistical prime. For a first round pick with such hype he has a .292 OBP and he is supposed to be a speed guy! When I see Buxton, I do not see Kirby Puckett. I see Mike Cameron--so far