ewen21

Sorry but you have to delve deeper than this. Are you trying to say the last five years mean nothing? I review his performance, injury history and age. What are you using? Please explain

Well put. I get the criticism, but what I don’t get is there seems to be more passion and emotion about this than actually losing games in October. For the life of me I will not get that people appear to be more up in arms over missing out on overpriced FAs we had very little chance of signing anyway. Kind of reminds me of dogs chasing cars

Nonsense you say. I’m talking about going forward. He is 33 years old, with time and injuries compounding so I bet against it. I’m going on historical performance. In the last five seasons he’s gone more than 130 innings ONCE. In the last five seasons he’s pitched more than 90 innings TWICE. No need to get chippy about that. Those are just facts. You think that’s going to get better starting at age 33? I think that is a bad bet.

The idea that we are to assume players are lying all the time is getting irritating to read. Bumgarner expresses a desire to pitch in ARI and yet we have people here operating under the assumption that isn’t true. Oh really. Please explain why he’d lie about that after the deal was done? What kind of tactical reasons would he have at this juncture? The deal was done

That deal involving Buxton and Syndergaard was something I would have done. Too late now. Let me study up on it. I’ll think of something

And we should expect that the next two seasons? More than likely that will be the largest output we will see from him. That was the first time he went over 150 since 2014. Only the second time since 2015 he went over 100 innings. Stats are available to all of us He turns 33 and has had a history checkered with a variety of injuries. Not sure what you are trying to tell me with a single statistic. Perhaps you can explain it in more detail. It would be appreciated because maybe you know something I don’t.

This FA pitching crop is overpriced and overrated. Believe it or not, the only one I think who can live up to the contract is Bumgarner and I don’t put good odds on that. We need to be willing to TRADE PROSPECTS to bring in young cost controlled pitching. All of our prospects if need be—before it’s too late. Buxton, Sano, Rosario, Kepler, Polanco, Arraez, etc....these are supposed to be guys we build around. Keep them and get a couple of young arms with upside using the farm system. Clean out the farm system if we need to but give me guys in their 20s to match this group. I don’t want to pay for a name in a shiny new package. It almost never pans out. All this talk about pitching in the playoffs and meanwhile we can barely average two runs a game during this run of futility. We need a stable of young arms to back up the nucleus. Not guys like Ryu who are a big BIG question mark and 33 years old. When he’s pitched his stats have been good. WHO CARES? He probably couldn’t go 150 innings this year if his life depended on it

Essentially what I’m saying about Ryu. Who cares about “if healthy”??? “”If healthy” for a 33 year starter with a history of injuries isn’t what we need. The last thing is this.... Even if we had Bumgarner and Ryu starting for us last year in the playoffs we still aren’t getting past the Yankees with the type of deer in the headlights at bats we had all series. This has gone on and on for years. If this organization can’t push pat that I doubt we win with Sandy Koufax and Tom Seaver toeing the rubber

A lot of this is about getting a shiny new gift. Thanks for the perspective

Thank you because I feel like an alien right now. The consternation over the lack of free agent signings seems to be bigger than when we got swept in the first round. I’m not sure how this is a bigger deal than that but it is and it really shouldn’t be

You’d have to ask him. He actually signed to pitch here, but then he isn’t a what you’d call a “big time” free agent.

Call me crazy, but last season was a bigger failure to me than this offseason (which isn’t even done yet). They managed to put together a team that won 101 games and went on to, most unforgivably, get swept yet again in first round. I am still much more bothered by that than I am the FO passing on this year’s crop of overpriced and overrated free agent pitching. Do we need pitching? Yes, we most certainly do; but then did we have a legitimate shot at signing any of these guys without going way over market value (whatever that is anymore)? No. These guys are hired to use analytics to field a cost effective roster. Going insane and giving a guy like Zach Wheeler more than 25 million a year for five or six years the answer? While it would placate much of the audience here I don’t think it would have come close to solving the core issue we have here. The culture in this organization is the problem. We lose in 3-and-out fashion and our manager tries to say he “isn’t frustrated at all”. A lot of people wanted to say last years team had nothing to do with all the postseason failures of the past. Well guess what? Last years team turns out to be just like the other teams with regard to postseason performance and quite frankly this off season is reminding me of 2010 to 2011 all over again. Am I disappointed? You bet I am, but I think the players deserve as much criticism as this front office. Maybe more. The FO assembled a cost effective team that did not show up in the post season. They don’t play the games, the players do. I’m giving them until spring training. It’s way too early to flip out. I’m also wondering where all the anger was after we lost in pathetic fashion again? Seems to be a lot more outrage now and I don’t get that

A lot of talk is a waste of time unless there is some kind of action behind it. The resounding message being delivered now is "spend money now!" That is all very nice, but what exactly should they have done? Outbid the Yankees to get Cole? That is impossible. Sign Wheeler for more than what Philly offered? And on and on and on. More than anything this is about a resentment toward the Twins for not spending enough. As if spending will be some magical bullet.

I don’t even know who this player is and I’m sure most here haven’t the first idea other than he’s a a 32 year old lefty. Having never seen him pitch it really doesn’t give me the right to grouse about not going for him. I imagine there is a decent pool of players of this ability level. He is kind of FA pitcher we often sign with the only difference being he pitched in the Japanese league. Long story short is I can’t complain about not going for a guy I never heard of, nor should anyone

I, for one, respect the divergent opinions of posters here. While I do not understand all the criticism about the Twins not signing anyone of note thus far this off season--I certainly get it. I have been that way in the past, but for now, I guess after the last postseason embarassment I don't see where this is a "win now" club. So I get the analytics-driven approach that dictates guy try to get the maximum value from trades and deals. Falvey and Levine did their job, in my opinion. It was the players who failed. Had they won a game in the playoffs I might feel differently. They could not win a game. AGAIN. Once again, we could not hit a lick in the postseason. How is a guy like Ryu or Bumgarner going to fix that? So I am not going to rip our GMs this offseason. I am reserving that for guys like Kepler and Buxton. These two darlings contributed NOTHING in the postseason. One ran into a wall (for the umpteenth time) in a meaningless game in Florida to ensure his season was over early and the other was invisible the last month of the season.

Who cares? There are no elite pitchers on the market now.

Not only that, it ignores flexibility next year and several years beyond. People also seem to want ignore to basic economics and the concept of a budget. Then again, I’m reading posts from people who feel Pohlad should just spend his own money. It’s really a bunch of pie in the sky chatter about nothing to the point where we are speaking hypothetically now. It does make me wonder. What if Jeff Bezos brought the Twins and made it his life’s mission to bring the Twins a championship? Would anyone be happy if he set aside five billion dollars of his fortune for the Twins and bought the biggest names in free agency the next five years? Would that get these people excited? Being a long time Twins fan you develop an understanding that we can’t operate like the Yankees or the Dodgers. Like you say, it is naive to think of we had even a little shot at Cole. To waste a moment on that is a fool’s errand. People know this and yet seems to be an increasingly louder group of folks who insist we spend without any concern of future implications. Have they learned nothing? For whatever reason they see this team as a win now team and that signing Bumgarner or Ryu (or both) is the recipe for success. All Pohlad needs to do is write checks. Meanwhile, when it comes time to sign Sano, Buxton, Berrios and the like we won’t be able to and there’s a good chance there will be complaints about that. It’s just becoming a silly conversation. This isn’t the market and it isn’t the year. These guys that are left isn’t going to get it done. We’d be better off pulling the trigger on a trade if anything.

I agree with you and added to what you said. By quoting you I was not challenging you in any way, but rather reinforcing by adding to your point

Why is it that we can't trade for a young guy on the rise to get this pitcher? This is what Houston did to get Cole. I think they played Cole perfectly. They got him at the exact right time and now the Yankees owe him a third of a billion dollars. We need to do what Houston did and NOT what the Yankees do. If we trade a Buxton or Rosario then get a FA outfielder to replace them. They are not as costly as pitching and far more common and therefore easier to replace.

EXACTLY. Stop viewing prospects as untouchables. We obviously can't compete in the FA market for top of the line starting pitching. Find another way.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I am not entirely convinced. Plus I did not like him smiling in the dugout getting bro hugs after pitching for stinking innings in the playoffs. That isn't a winning attitude if you ask me. Maybe he matures, but I need to see more maturity from the guy

They way the Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers, etc... do it and the way we can achieve it are two entirely different matters. This idea that we should be spending like they do is a distraction from reality. In 2003 the Marlins beat the Yankees with about a third of the payroll. They did it because they had a stable of talented team-controlled arms and a very solid lineup with a mix of talent. In 2015 the Mets and Royals made it to the WS. The Mets payroll was 21st and the Royals was 16th. I think complaining about spending money is a convenient excuse which ignores the real issue. We DO NOT raise pitching AND we lack the balls to trade prospects to bring in some decent young pitching with two or more years of team control left. Talking about how we don't make a splash in the free agent market is a waste of time. It really is. And I would be dollars to donuts the day we do we end up regretting it more likely than not I think you guys talking about "get an ace!" are making the excuses. Complaining about the lack of spending (when you know in your heart of hearts it won't happen) is a very convenient excuse. We can always just throw that out there, but we really have not been smart or shrewd very often. We don't raise pitching and have not for years and years. We hitch up to prospects like they are our future instead simply viewing them as parts or assets. We also don't have what I consider a winning culture. TO win 101 games, get swept in the first round for the fourth consecutive time and have a manager who feels the need to say he "isn't frustrated at all" really is more of an issue as far as I am concerned. That and the other things I mentioned

Thanks for doing that. I didn't actually research Price, but rather I already knew it was not good. Looking at it for the first time it is pretty bad: https://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/split_stats.cgi?full=1&params=oppon%7CNYY%7Cpriceda01%7Cpitch%7CIP%7C He's pitched basically a full season against them and has a 5.04 ERA and a 1.425 WHIP against them in just over 250 innings. If the mission is to get further in the playoffs then he is not the guy. Ryu and Bumgarner (as noted by you) have too small a sample size to glean anything from it. Nevertheless, those two names do nothing for me. Bumgarner has appeal because of his "pedigree" although he is not the guy he was five years ago. We would need to pay extra for his past and his image. Ryu turns 33 and he will be looking for a mini windfall. There will be a couple of teams willing to overpay and we will need to beat those bidders. Not smart if you ask me.

I don’t want a guy with such high miles that is a facsimile of what they once were. So much more logical to find a younger guy for less who is as good or better

Being good against the Yankees wasn’t the ONLY CRITERIA being used. Price is so awful against them it’s a deal breaker for me. And quite honestly to heck with Bumgarner