ewen21

Well, he hit over .300 and by a lot and doesn't that say something? He isn't Danny Santana, bro. I don't think the over .300 average and the .400 OBP was a fluke He was actually the best hitter in the lineup for pretty decent chunks of the year. With all the talk about the potential of guys who really haven't made contributions like that on a day in, day out basis; it is actually refreshing to see a guy come up and hit like he did. It shows he has skill at doing the toughest thing you can do in sports and he is still very young. Will the league catch up? Yeah, most certainly...but he isn't going to suddenly become a dog. I have a much more positive view of his future. His defense isn't so disgusting where you can discount the .399 OBP he brought to the table. The dude gives professional at bats and that is something sorely needed to put more pressure on opposing pitchers. Guys like Buxton and Rosario have shown a propensity to give away too easily for long stretches (especially Buxton, who I am actually more concerned about).. Arraez is like .100 points higher in OBP than both Rosario and Buxton. Food for the mind. For that reason, I am not worried about his lack of power (unlike in the case of Joe Mauer who was paid to be THE man) and I am not worried about his defense either. At least not until it becomes an real issue and it isn't. Not to me at least.

Don't expect much if that is all you are willing to part with. Those aren't the names anyone is going to come asking about

That isn't necessarily so. If you can get a guy who can pitch 7 innings consistently, is economical and can work fast there is lots of value in that because there is scarcity. To be clear, I am not advocating any particular move involving Rosario, but it is certainly worth a discussion. Outfield is a place we have what could be considered a surplus and we need pitching. Are we only to address this issue through free agency? Is every single player that comes through our system that is good or has potential conscripted to be a Twin for life? It might taking giving up something to get something. That means risk is involved, but that is what successful teams do.

Indignant is a good word, but then again so is truculence. I have not been in on these threads although I have read a lot of it. Rosario is the kind of player who will never be above the fray due to his cavalier approach. He has a strong offensive game and he has some tools to go along with it. He is durable and appears to be popular with his teammates. HOWEVER, there are some very reasonable criticisms that can be made about his game and for whatever reason this makes certain posters upset. I think maybe it is best to ignore the people who get upset at this juncture unless they want do develop a case against what has been said and I have yet to see anything much in that regard. We are getting to the point where a decision is going to need to be made with him. Is he a long term Twin? Not everyone can be or will be. This team (and its fanbase) really needs to stop believing that the players that come through the system are supposed to retire as Twins can get a special day. We need to start looking at players as assets and assets can be reallocated or sold off for other assets. With all the talk about us not getting pitching I am mystified by all this resistance to trading a guy like Buxton or Rosario. We have the most "depth" in the outfield right now. If we are not going to trade from those positions where do we trade from? I like Rosario, but my GOD.....can we have a grown up discussion without people being personally offended by the criticism that is drawn up? None of the actual criticism is controversial

I am not advocating to trade him, by the way. I was more interested in trading Buxton and if we didn't get Syndergaard because we thought Buxton was all that and a bag of chips then that was a big BIG mistake. I want to read different takes. I agree that Eddie is a reckless player in a lot of ways. I like what he brings to the table, though. However, at the same time, I would like to see people make their case. I am not interested in shuttting it down whereas these terse bitter responses seem to indicate the discussion should be shut down. WHY???? This is the hot stove. Any intelligent input should be good enough whether your or I like it or not

Is there something mean and nasty about that?

Nobody has "attacked" Rosario or is guilty of "bullying" here. These kinds of reactions are accusations that are not accurate. It is an attempt to marginalize the original post and if we are going to be a place centering on discussion that kind of thing should not be accepted. Instead of torpedoing the guy with an accusation, why not make your own point and try to have a conversation with the dude? Why insist there is some pernicious agenda against Eddie Rosario? Most of the stuff Nick said isn't even controversial. What gives? I think that is silly and I would rather have a discussion with all sides freely expressing themselves. I swear, some people are just dying to be "offended"

This is an "attack" in your estimation. He laid out a pretty fair narrative backed with lots of support. He dedicated a paragraph to how he likes the guy as well and this is your reaction? How about constructing and articulating your own view before you start with an accusation?

Bullying? Really? The overreaction to critical analysis never ceases to disappoint me here.

He is very good at striking a baseball and he is very confident in his ability to do so. As far as learning situational hitting, he has not

This right here. I recall an at bat during the playoffs and we got two runners on with none out in a tight game. Eddie came up, swing at the first pitch (which was well out of the strike zone) and he popped out. Totally took the wind of the sails. So yeah. He deserves criticism

It is like using Tom Brady as a benchmark for quarterbacks. For every Verlander there are literally hundreds of others every generation who’ve hung it up by the time they reach his age. I would not draw comparisons to him with any free agent arm out there now.

Jake is still an option. We can’t say they’ve moved on from him. Do you think Gibson is better?

And I wanted a big red fire engine for Christmas in 1972 and ended up getting an Etch-a-Sketch box

You would say Gibson is better than Odorizzi? I don't know about that one

I think the message was it’s going to take more than throwing money at free agent pitching By the way, Houston got their pitch through trades and the Cubs big signing (Darvish) has been a disaster. There were people screaming that we should hand him a blank check! Caveat emptor. Like I said in my last post, the culture has to change if we are ever getting anywhere in the postseason. Getting to the postseason seems to the objective and then hope for the best. As if we are waiting for fairies and angels to grant us luck ...and if they don’t OK we made it to the postseason, so that’s good enough. That mindset isn’t cutting it. I thought it was dead and buried but it’s not. Rocco confirmed that by telling us he’s just fine not winning a game in the postseason

I feel you. I honestly do. However, we scored 7 runs in 3 games and that just isn't cutting it. This has happened time and time again against the Yankees. Go after pitching for sure....but until the culture changes we will continue to lay down like lambs against them. It was a hard thing to come to terms with, but that is what I did after the 2010 season ended. We had possibly one of the best lineups this franchise ever had that season and we STILL tightened up and played like weaklings I think we have lost against them not because we haven't pitched well enough. We have lost to them because we average less than three runs a game against them in the playoffs. Even if we had Strasburg, Cole, Frank Viola and Jack Morris we still probably would not win if we hit like that

If isn’t being talked about because it’s justified. The discussion only started because people feel he got screwed.

How are we talking about "service time manipulation" with Buxton? The guy hit .159 in 90 at bats with the big club, got injured a few tines and was hitting .235 in AAA going into August 26th. He didn't play well enough and he was injured. It was a lost season and that is all on him, not the Twins. He would only look silly if he tried to file a grievance. He needs to worry about his game more than anything else.

The discussion has gone off topic (although it has been an interesting read). No way in the world are these two players comparable. No matter how good Buxton is in the field he isn't good enough to counter the fact that he was beleaguered with injuries and migraines and hit .156 in his time with the team. As a matter of fact, he was hitting .235 in Rochester as late as August 25th: http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?player_id=621439#/gamelogs/R/hitting/2018/MINORS To assert that the Twins somehow screwed him by keeping him down is absurd. He had four good games in a row to get his average up to .272. Four good games is raking? Are we actually being serious? Too little, too late.....AND the Twins were playing meaningless games. With his luck that year he might have ran into a wall and nearly killed himself. It was best to just send him home and let him do some soul searching. Byron Buxton's 2018 was about as big a disappointment I have seen from a player who was supposed to be on the rise as I have ever seen. He needs to put the big boy pants on, learn how to hit more consistently and stay on the field. I think the desire for Buxton to do well is so great here that some folks are accentuating the positives so much it muddies the big picture.

I do not know what to expect from Garver in 2020 so he could very well be a one hit wonder. He's a 28 year old that arrived last year and then suddenly this past season he hits four times as many home runs. It would be rather silly for me to expect that his first real season (his 28 year old season) to be repeated because he has no history as a major leaguer apart from last year. We have to be careful assessing last season as the norm for him I respect you for allowing me to clarify. YOu will notice in my first post I said I like him so I was not disparaging him. I am just unsure about what he really is.

Please stop playing semantics here, Mike. I said "last year might be a one hit wonder" Last year was the first year he was a reasonably effective one and he turns 29 in January. Grandal is only a year and a little more than a month older and he has accomplished a lot more as a catcher AND he can hit for power as well. A seasoned catcher can do more for our pitching staff than you or I can even quantify right now. I love my offense, but one place I sacrifice a little would be at the catcher position. Stop trying to play AH HA with me. I am not by any stretch of the imagination disparaging Garver, nor do I think we should simply discard him. I am interested in having a solid, established catcher. Grandal fits the bill

Did not say he couldn't hit, but it is entirely possible that last year turns out to be his best year. He looked so exposed in the playoffs and his home run rate spiked massively last year. Power is his main strength as he doesn't particularly hit for average. Just saying I do not expect him to hit home runs at such a ridiculous rate. Maybe you do and that I just swell

Not sure what the big attraction about Wade is. He is a AAAA player in my estimation

Some people like chocolate, some vanilla and others strawberry...... Stu likes rocky road