ewen21

As great as Mookie Betts was last year are we going so insane as to believe he is worth $83 million for a 1 year deal in the open market?

You are isolating a detail of little consequence and ignoring the fact that I already acknowledged 20 million was Max's alleged value in the market. Why keep pursuing this?

FWIW, he would likely be on the sideline with Manny and Bryce waiting to get his money. Seven years for Max Kepler after last year? The Twins clearly like him and trust him. I can't see him getting that kind of security from an organization that didn't raise him. This contract is unique. We could benefit enormously from it, but I cannot agree with anyone who says he'd get 7 years in the open market. Not until these kinds of contracts for 25 year old guys who hit .224 the season prior become the norm.

I did clearly express this value assumes Max in the FA market so it is perplexing to me why you would feel the need to explain this to me And it is still the average salary. If you want to subtract out all players that are pre-free agent eligible you actually further my case

Player salaries resemble to me the way homes were priced in the mid-2000s. The way the stock market was as we moved toward Y2K. The writing has been on the wall for a while. These contracts just don't work and corrections happen. FanGraphs has a valuation model that needs to be adjusted because in no way does it reflect REALITY when it comes to what players get on the open market as free agents. This begs the question..... How much longer did player salaries need to increase at ridiculous rates? Average player salaries increased by over 100% from 2001 to 2015. Was this supposed to continue until the end of time?

I could care less about the methodology used to arrive at this absurdity. When they are telling me that Dozier "could be worth" 46,000,000 dollars in the open market for a one year deal I stop listening. It has nothing to do with reality no matter how clever and detailed it might be.

A right fielder averages about 2 putouts a game. They can go weeks without having an opportunity to make a great play in even then it isn't a guarantee it's a game changer. Defensive value among major league outfielders really is difficult to pin down. A great outfielder doesn't get to do that much more than an average one, whereas a great hitter has so so many more opportunities to shine. Defense is definitely important, but a single player rarely gets to change games with his glove and Max Kepler isn't that guy to me. I became increasingly concerned with his bat. A .224 average or whatever he hit last year isn't good from any angle. Kind of odd that he gets this contract after that kind of season, but whatever

The average major league salary is a shade over 4 million a year. By the rationale (or lack of it) provided through FanGraphs' valuation system Max is worth roughly five times more than the average player if he were to step into the FA market. In reality, I don't think there is a team in the league that would have handed Max the deal the Twins gave him. It isn't an astronomical amount of money, but I cannot envision some other team handing him a 7 year deal. This is comes with him being a known commodity and generally well-liked within the organization. They are betting on Max, and that is a good thing for Max. He knows how to "play the game" and be a good soldier so he gets his deal. As far as FanGraphs money goes, it is like the defunct Italian Lira to me. I had a few friends go to Germany/Italy for several weeks in the fall of 1984. They drank some towns dry in Italy and spend like $10 American dollars in the process. It was too hard to believe, but that was how the currency was valued.

It was precisely this kind of thought process that generated the notion last winter that Machado and Harper could be signing $400 million dollar contracts. The kind of thinking that has Machado and Harper both believing they shouldn't take anything less than $300 in guaranteed money.

That is just the thing. FanGraphs disgustingly overrates player value, in my opinion. If you check Brian Dozier as an example he was "according to FanGraphs" worth $40 million and $46 million in 2016 and 2017 (if he were a FA in the open market). How does this jibe with reality? The player valuations based off WAR seems completely arbitrary to me. While WAR is an indicator I like to see it is not infallible and should not be viewed as a singular confirmation of how much a player is worth. What exactly is the logic here? It starts to become far too removed from any kind of common sense and more about numbers. Seems to me in this valuation they assume "average player" has a WAR of 1.0 so that should be in proportion to the average salary. They set that at 7 million and for every WAR point they score you multiply by 7 million? Whatever they do to value Dozier over $40 million in two different seasons says all you need to know about it. I appreciate everything else about FanGraphs, however, this valuation system is utterly absurd. Maddening actually.

Fangraphs is brilliant in many ways, but the least brilliant thing about it is their valuation system in regards to dollar value based off the player's WAR. They had Dozier at and above 40 million. In what fictional world can that be justified? Completely absurd What is important is that Kepler is making significantly more than Polanco in his deal and I just don't get that

I don't understand why people suddenly the Twins to spend like a top 10 team. These are two analytics guys. The whole premise behind bringing them in was to build a competitive cost-effective club. They are not going to take costly risks by definition. About the only time they might is if this team has a more stable core. Not sure why so many are challenged by this notion

Again. If not a single person said a thing about his performance he would still have to dig himself of the hole he has dug.

Not sure what you mean by that. He had a .544 OPS in 382 at Rochester last year. There have been concerns about his glove and how he can hold up to a long season. I had a much more positive view of him before the his callup to Rochester, but after that performance I am not so sure how can take a glass half full view of him at this point in time. If not a single person said BOO about him he would still need to dig himself of this hole that he is in now.

Well, that is your opinion. They have generated so much money because they have expanded the product and priced it out nearly to it's limit. Now a correction in salaries is happening. Do you feel that is unfair to these players?

And everyone was saying BUY REAL ESTATE in 2004. How did that workout. This endless bounty of risning salaries is ending. And it needs to.

Athletes and entertainers make way WAY too much. They do not solve problems and we can stand to divorce ourselves from the lunacy if they cannot accept a period of austerity. Every other field has faced it and if they want to cry about it then that is not a good look

Because no entertainer, athlete deserves to make the money these guys now make. Do you realize how much salaries have increased over the last 25 years? Do we continue to endorse this insanity or is it time for a reality check? I think this correction was inevitable and these dudes really need a reality check. As far as the owners go, I do not support their side BUT they are the ones incurring the risk owning the franchise. Same with any privately owned business. They ultimately decide how much their employees should earn. These guys make enough. I ask again.....are you OK with the next 25 years being like the last 25? Consider how jacked up cable bills have gotten, how much it costs for a family to attend a game, etc....Name me a union that is more powerful from the MLPA. Name me a union that gives that kind of protection to their constituents. This is the second time you hit me with this. If you want to demonize the owners and absolve players from all responsibility in this salary ridiculousness then we will never agree so I will read your response and consider whether or not I should respond. Not interested in an acrimonious exchange since I do respect your baseball knowledge. I just don't like the way you absolve the MLPA. Them and the agents can kick and scream about this and even go on strike. See where that lands them this time. It is a different world and they need to wake up

I hope Harper is sitting on the sidelines during ST and is forced to sign a contract significantly less than what Washington offered him

First base! Jim! Holt! My brother and I used to get a kick out of the way Casey announced him. I had a bunch of him in that '74 set

In 1975 I think I got ten freakin Vic Albury cards. Grrrr!

Incidentally, I believe both occurred in Chicago

Maybe it was pursued and he wanted nothing to do with the Twins. We did not have the best relationship with him (even though that was with the old guard, not sure if he would feel like coming back)

Ok. There is a positive slant, but understand for every Arrieta there are dozens of others with these numbers who are out of baseball before they turn 30

I remember Joe giving that "do you know who I am?" glare to Joe West. West just shot back with his "do you know who you're dealing with?" gaze. It was hysterical