diehardtwinsfan

I thought I remember reading KLAW saying something about his slider being a terrible pitch... Not a bad idea if it's a below average pitch.

This was a good post, but my big concern is looking at it in a vacuum. I'm not sure either scenario is necessarily "likely" but both are possible. Contex, however, has to come into play here. In Hugh's case, he was pitching in parks that tended to amplify his weaknesses. That goes away going to TF. He was also in a very unfriendly media environment of NY. Some players have shown the ability to thrive outside of that environment? Is it a guarantee? No, but I do think that the Twins made a calculated gamble that this FA would be more likely to meet or exceed his contract than say Garza, and to be clear I think this is true b/c the Twins put a very high value on the ability to last an entire season, not necessarily the ERA/FIP/etc. at the end of the year. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

This would be trading from a position of weakness to fill a position of weakness. We really aren't good partners here.

Been a few years since I did fantasy baseball. It's a Twins forum, so we don't have a whole lot of fantasy hopes these days. Feel free to post them here or in the sports bar though as I'm sure there are a few folks here who play. Perhaps you could get a Twins Daily league going. You could get away with Twins related fantasy questions in the Twins forum, but other than Mauer, who will be listed as a C but likely won't catch many games, and Perkins there's not much worth drafting... Dozier could be a nice sleeper, as could Arcia.

There will be a huge battle. You'll see dragons. Joffrey will die.

yeah, I don't get the Pinto to AAA thing either. He raked in AA, and got promoted mid season to AAA and did quite well there too. His September was obviously an outlier, but certainly encouraging regardless. I think he gets the job out of camp though Suzuki is likely going to be the opening day starter. Pinto will stay up as long as he's doing OK.

Honestly, the easy way to solve this would be for MLB to build or purchase a small apartment near the park that could house the team plus one or two extra dorm rooms for callups and what not and cover their meals as well. If they've paid for living and meal expenses, there's not much else at that age, and I'd imagine that would solve a lot of those problems. I think most players could stick through that at minimum wage if they had no food/housing costs. As others have said, I'd think MLB would already be doing that with the food.

. He reported to Smith during that tenure... not vice versa.

I'll leave it up to Chitown to comment on whether that could work, but I was more referring to Mark Buhrle... Nice response though.

I think this is a bit too simplistic. What SS could they have signed for 2 years? I see Drew as the only reasonable option (and it sounds like he wants more than 2 years). He also wants a lot more money than Pelfrey as well and costs a draft pick... even if it is a 2. There's more at stake here. The SS market just sucks.

I think you bring up a valid point here. The value of a strong system, especially one that is long on both depth and high end talent is that accounting for the fameouts, it will still produce some good minor leaguers. Quantity of both quality and questionable prospects, which the Twins have a lot of, is why they should be good for a long time. Is it possible that these guys never pan out? Absolutely. But given the sheer volume of them, it's still a very good sign.

I'm not sure Pinto should be in this conversation, given that he hasn't disappointed anyone yet. I still think there's hope for Plouffe and Parmelee, but I do agree that the hope is small. Either way, these guys need to play every day, and in Parm's case, that's the one thing that didn't happen. With Sano, Buxton, and Hicks all knocking on the door, these guys are going to be without a position unless they can start hitting. I have little confidence in Diamond. Perhaps he can carve out a buhrleesque type career, but I have little confidence in that.

I don't understand this focus on payroll in a vacuum. The team needed pitching, they went out and spent nearly 100M on pitching, and we are complaining about the one that got away? I'll go a step further and note that Garza hasn't exactly been the model of health during his career either. Given the pitching injuries this team has had, that has to be taken into account. I get that the payroll is the same as last year. I'm not sure why that mattered. With the farm system as it is and the guys up here, there really isn't an easily upgradable need at any postion other than SS, and as we've discussed ad nauseum on this site, there isn't exactly a ton of sure thing SS out there.

I suspect someone will start out on the DL... That's pretty normal unfortunately, but also the nature of baseball. That would solve a lot of issues. If not, my guess is Deduno is in the pen, Worley starts, Gibson is in AAA, and Diamond gets a DFA.

Living out of market, I don't know what's on TV or not, but if there's no game thread, anyone is welcome to start one up. If a mod is online, it will get a sticky it for the night. I think we all miss baseball.

You are right, capitalism without morality is cannibalism... at least that's what my dad always said. The free market really isn't free in this case. I suspect this lawsuit will not end well for baseball.

1. In response to this, the point of the lawsuit is that both sides don't get to negotiate. Minor leaguers aren't voting members of the MLBPA. Their rights conveniently get set aside because of this. 2. I am not sure it is our place decide what does and does not go into that decision making process. It doesn't matter to me if the draftee cared about minor league compensation or not. I would guess there's a lot of reasons that vary from person to person. What matters, in the eyes of the law, is whether or not that person is being treated fairly. I'm not a lawyer, to be clear, but if the facts in this story are true, there's a very real case here. 3. Just a moderator note here, but your point gets obscured when you start talking down to people in this matter. I think I get where you are coming from here, but I'm not sure I'd call it fact. Theory perhaps, but people retire all the time from the minor leagues. They are taking their shot at the jackpot essentially and are willing to put up with it to get their shot. Regardless of which, it doesn't entitle MLB the right to abuse that. As it is, when those minor leaguers play, people pay money to see them. 4. This is not fact. If it were true, then people wouldn't be taking jobs for more pay all the time because they are paid exactly what they are worth. I've done it on more than one occasion. There's a lot more that goes into compensation, and in this particular case, minor leaguers don't have the rights to choose their employer as you or I do. They get drafted. That means that all their employers essentially conspire together and say that Joe Minor Leaguer has to work for the Minnesota Twins, or he doesn't get to work. Joe Minor Leaguer can either not work, or work for the Twins but not for anyone else, even though he's a WhiteSox fan and really wants to play for Chicago. That's why there is a CBA in the first place... and that brings us back to the fact that Joe Minor Leaguer is having his rights compromised by a union that he is not a member of.

This line of reasoning tends to bother me, whether talking about minor leaguers or anyone else in general. Everyone has a right in this country to quit their jobs at will. But at the same time, that does not end business responsibility to treat their employees fairly. Employment laws were created for such a scenario. MLB can skirt around them because there is a union and these rules are collectively bargained... except that in this case, the bulk of the MLB employees don't get to vote on said rules. I'm betting this is a game changer. Minor leaguers will either be allowed to unionize or the MLBPA will be forced to make them voting members. Otherwise, MLB's anti-trust exemption will be gone.

To get this back on topic, I've never seen a link personally where the exact reason for Smith's firing was supplied. I wasn't a fan of Smith, particularly when he felt he had to make a trade. I'll simply ask politely, does someone have a link to this spending theory? I never saw it reported in the papers in anything other than irreconcilable differences... the budget has always been the speculated reason.

MODERATOR NOTE, let's tone down the personal comments. There's a interesting discussion to be had, but right now it's being had by insults. If that doesn't change, I'm closing this thread. Edit: I cannot type

The problem as I see it comes down to a union that really doesn't represent them. That's a problem MLB may be forced to change, especially where labor laws are violated. The entire concept of a draft is a violation of labor laws, which means that the sport needs to take really really really good care of its people. Truthfully, I don't get some of this. These guys are important assets to the team. I'd want to make sure they are housed in good housing and that they eat the right kinds of food. Honestly if food and housing were taken care of for the players, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

It makes sense under certain circumstances. I'd probably want to see how he did in the minors this year just to set my self at ease that last season wasn't some sort of crazy good fluke, but yeah, if he continues to do as well as he did, it certainly makes sense, and does for both sides.

Yeah, I remember reading about this a while back... Kind of disturbing really. If you aren't drafted in the first few rounds or get a nice signing bonus, you are making next to nothing. If I remember right, a guy on the 40 man roster is making around 50k/year... You can live off of that in some cities, but not many.

This is somewhat tough, there's reason to believe that a number of guys could break out... then there is what we've seen the last few years... optimistic: Arcia, Willigham 25 Dozier, Plouffe, Parmelee, Kubel 20 Mauer 15 Pessimistic: Arcia 20 Dozier, Plouffe 15 Parmelee, Mauer10 Kubel, Willingham 10, but traded at deadline Sano hits 45 in AAA while not being called up.

I would say anyone who is 11-20 on this list would be a good candidate. There's a lot that goes into it. Houston essentially did that with Correa the year we took Buxton. Their scouts were convinced that he was going to be a stud and turned around and got him for below slot. They then turned around and grabbed some guys with their other picks and signed them overslot. Thus far, it has worked out for them.