chpettit19

You do realize that increasing the payroll and bringing Correa and Pablo in lead to the only playoff series win this franchise has had in over 2 decades, right? Not sure that's really the "gotcha!" moment you think it is.

I have no problem acquiring bullpen arms to try to boost that group whether they're able to stick in the race or not. But I want to know what it's going to cost before I decide if I like any certain acquisition or not.

The Twins would have to offer Jeffers the qualifying offer that will likely be over $23 million and have him reject it to get a comp pick. Assuming that's how things would play out is a massive bet. Making him the highest paid catcher in baseball next year and spending $30+ million on the catcher position would be quite a bold move if he accepts the QO.

This isn't quite true. The CBA expires at 11:59 PM ET on December 1, not at the end of the World Series. The general thought at this point is the owners lockout the players at 12 AM on December 2. It's possible one side or the other decides to act earlier than that, but that's not the likely chain of events. There will be a month-ish of offseason before a labor stoppage.

Yeah, I just don't agree with that. They already talked about his future when they negotiated his deal that included a 2027 option. They know if he's willing to sign something close to what they're willing to offer. If you know he's not signing, then you cash him in for his highest value, and that's before August 4th, 2026. Many people expected this team to be well below .500 and the league to be performing normally to this point. The fact that the Twins are only barely below .500 and the league as a whole has underperformed has people thinking this team is better than it is, in my opinion. They're below .500 but we're acting like they're a winning team challenging the best in the AL. They aren't. And trading Joe now doesn't mean they completely tank and only win 10 games after the deadline. The Tigers traded all their veterans in 2024 when they were 52-57 at the deadline and made the playoffs by letting their young guys come up and go to work. Trading Joe Ryan and the 10 or so starts he'd make after the deadline isn't some automatic death blow to this team. But the team isn't all that alive anyways. Give me the best chance at truly opening a window over crossing our fingers that this team that's been below .500 since April 22 is some sort of real contender. I get not wanting to trade him now, and don't think that's crazy, but I fully disagree with it until this team actually shows they're actual contenders. They have 16 games to do that, I guess.

Oh, and the team was 51-57 and on the way down.

I want no part of paying a pitcher 30 mil until they're 36/37 years old.

Joe Ryan has to want to do it. I feel like people leave the player and their free will out of the equation. If Joe Ryan doesn't want to sign an extension, the requirement for the Twins to spend money has nothing to do with Joe Ryan and his wishes. Unless you're advocating for the Twins to spend significantly above market rate to convince him to stay. Which is a bad strategy for roster management no matter how much they're required to spend.

Can you name a single trade of a pitcher that returned a major league closer and cleanup hitter? Like a single trade in the history of baseball? That is a wildly outrageous ask. What buying team is selling their closer and cleanup hitter for a pitcher?

You're leaving out the biggest IF...IF Joe Ryan wants to sign a deal before he hits free agency. Which doesn't really match with anything he's ever said about his contracts. They could certainly pursue him on the market after 2027, but the biggest factor in extending any player is that player and their willingness to do it.

I think taking this stuff into consideration when making decisions today is a really risky proposition. There will be so many other rules around contracts, payrolls, etc. that it doesn't seem like trying to guess at what the final outcome is would be all that helpful. If teams like the Twins are going to have to spend a bunch extra, teams like the Yankees and Dodgers are going to have to cut a lot. Guessing what the FA pool or trade opportunities are would just be throwing darts in the dark. The CBA can very much have a huge impact on the future of the Twins, but trying to make decisions now based on guesses of what it may look like feels really dangerous.

In 2024, the Tigers were 52-57 on July 31. Sold their veterans and ended the season at 86-76 and earned a wild card spot with a young team. Won 87 games last year. Got destroyed by injuries to start this year, but are making a run now. That is the picture I have in my head for the Twins. Do some selling of veterans on a below .500 team, add young talent to the roster, and tell them to go get themselves a playoff birth. I also expect Tom P to mandate them "going for it," and I very much worry it's going to hurt them down the road and completely undermine his goal.

I don't think this is an unreasonable stance, but calling him up and letting him play a game a week while being in the clubhouse around a pennant chase to prepare him for a larger role in 2028 feels about as useful as calling up some random AAAA guy and having him just sit on the bench. And it's entirely possible, if our dreams come true, that Lackey is better than Jackson and/or Caratini by September 2027. Not that I'd throw him straight into the starting catcher role, but giving him a few games would make sense then.

Have they been slow to promote elite prospects? Brooks Lee, Kaelen Culpepper, Marik Houston, and Walker Jenkins have all moved up at pretty quick paces. They haven't been the Angels in this regard, but they haven't held any of those guys back in any kind of abnormal way.

I think you've pretty spot on laid out the hope. I don't think it's an unrealistic timeline either, if he's close to as good as we all hope he is. This is what I'm hoping for. September call-up next year and a run at RoY in 2028.

I can see the logic in all 4 options. I'd go with #1. I expect them to go with #3 or 4. I don't think Joe is going to sign an extension. They agreed to an option year for his last arb year next year so they've already discussed his contract situation beyond this year. He's now made a 2nd All Star game and has the chance to finally perform through an entire season and raise his contract value even more. I highly doubt he signs an extension before he hits free agency if they weren't able to buy out any FA years when discussing the option for 2027. I don't think this team is a true contender in the way I want them to be. The rest of the league struggling so far, or them being slightly better than expectations, doesn't make them an actually good team. They're still below .500. I think 2027 and beyond should be the focus. If you don't think Joe Ryan is going to sign an extension (again, I don't) then the smart, although emotionless, thing to do is trade Ryan at his peak value and get pieces with good chances of helping those 2027 and beyond teams. The CBA negotiations wouldn't play a role in my decision. Make decisions based on what you know, not what you're guessing will happen in a crazy and aggressive negotiation. I also wouldn't use Tommy Boy's words about "being competitive" and hoped for PR boost for more ticket sales as a reason to keep Joe. The incremental boost you get now will be instantly crushed when he walks in free agency (cheap Pohlads will be the claim no matter why he leaves) and the team isn't good. The real PR and business boost they need is from a sustained, truly competitive, winning team. Not a team that is "in the playoff race" because the rest of the league is also down. I don't think anyone is off their rocker for wanting to go with options 2 through 4, but I'd go with #1 and give myself the best shot to truly open a competitive window moving forward. I don't expect them to, but it's what I'd do. Unless they go 11-5 before the deadline, I'd rethink things then.

I agree they're in a very interesting spot, and don't have any issue with people wanting to go after the playoffs in a year when the league is so down at this point. But I'd still trade Jeffers and Ryan. The Twins are still below .500. If they go on an absolute heater like 11-5 or something before the deadline, I'd reconsider. But if they're still struggling to get to, and stay above, .500, I'm pointing my efforts straight at 2027 and beyond. Again, I understand people wanting to play for this year, but I'm just not interested in being a "playoff contender" simply because the league is down so far. To me, that just means most of the AL (11 teams?) are going to be focused on this year and not doing more to build for the future. If Anaheim, KC, and Vegas/Sacramento are the only clear "sellers" in the AL, I sell Jeffers and Ryan and give myself more of a boost heading into 2027 while the other 11 squads are standing still on that front. I want true contenders, not just a below .500 team that is in the fight because the rest of the league has also struggled.

No, they should have guys they're willing to play in a role. Platoon bat, defensive sub/stolen base threat. Something. Not roster guys they don't ever want to put in games. Having a guy on your roster you're afraid of having to put on the field is bad roster management. The goal for major league teams is to have 26 guys they're willing to play and use in a combination of roles that allows them to counter the other team's moves. Rostering Fedko, McCusker, Keirsey types, or 3rd catchers, limits their options. It is not maximizing your roster. No team has 9 guys (or 10 with 2 catchers) that they play every day in every situation. Not even the Dodgers. So, you need to have guys up and down the roster who can fill in for each other's gaps in skill. Having a roster spot used on a guy you don't trust to truly fill any gap in another player's skill is a complete and utter waste of a roster spot and bad roster management.

I think there's a very real difference in this conversation between IL stints and just rest days off. I reject the idea that any individual player needs half days off by DHing or any more regular rest days off than 5 to 7. They don't have the drugs like back then, but they have so much more information on training, diet, etc. and such better health services than back then. There is no physical reason a guy can't play 155+ games beyond injury. And injury, for this discussion, is very different because it opens another roster spot. If Lewis goes down, they wouldn't have to slide Caratini and/or Jeffers into 1B, they could put Clemens there with Culpepper coming up to take over 2B or SS (hypothetical based on health for everyone other than Lewis). Missed time for injury is very different and doesn't play so much into this discussion because it's opening a new roster spot. I agree Jackson isn't an unreasonable 13th guy based on current roster construction. But, to me, that's missing the bigger point of not having better options than Kersey, McCusker, Fedko, or Jackson for years now. That is a very real concern. Even if they have likely better support coming through the minors.

Bell is a DH. Why can't he play every day? If he's one of your 9 best hitters, and a better hitter than Jeffers or Caratini, why would you sit him ever? Sure, Lewis will have days off, but it's not once a week or anything. Outside of injuries, there is no reason Lewis, or any other guy who's supposed to be a "starter," can't play 160+ games a year. Certainly don't need to give him any more than 5 to 7 scheduled days off during the season. Agree, the Twins really don't have that guy. And that's a large part of this problem. They've done a very poor job of building out a roster and system that can avoid having guys on it that they don't want to put in the game ever. It's really the point of this debate. The fact that they can't find a better option for the 13th guy on the roster than Kersey, McCusker, Fedko, or a 3rd catcher.

I don't disagree with this general idea, but are you sitting Bell or Lewis for Caratini or Jeffers? I didn't mention DH and 1B because they would put guys there, but those are spots that most certainly don't need to be taken up with Caratini or Jeffers. Unless Jeffers is going to continue to hit like a DH (I have my doubts based on his entire career), neither him nor Caratini would be the first or second (Larnach) options at DH. I don't think "emergency injury replacement" in RF is adding any real value to Jackson. It's nice to have, but they'd have to be in a pretty specific situation for that to happen. He's essentially a once-a-week catcher when they're on long stretches without a day off in your scenario. It's not the worst roster situation they've found themselves in, but it's certainly not ideal. Them having 3 switch hitters and far fewer platoon bats than they used to is the real reason having an essentially completely wasted roster spot isn't awful for them. They have a group of guys who are clearly playing better than the bench guys and should be starting most every day. I still don't think 3rd catcher is really the best use of that roster spot. Give me a true defensive/SB demon who can be used every day over a 3rd catcher on a roster with plenty of DH/1B options.

As opposed to your argument? You listed a guy who hasn't even been on the Mets for a month while providing inaccurate stas as proof. You haven't provided any evidence either. I'm all ears for you going through all 30 teams and proving that the norm is to have a guy with no roster role whatsoever. I'm actually looking forward to it.

Yes, that is a good comp for the Twins in that he's a player with no real role. But in terms of 3rd catchers, he is at least trusted to stand in those spots. The Twins would never put Jeffers, Caratini, or Jackson at 3B or LF.

You come up with a better proxy. The hitter with the 13th most PAs for a team assumes that player has been on the team the entire year. Which is an awful assumption. My argument is not that the Twins should have 13 guys they want to play all the time. It's that they are outside the norm in that they have frequently rostered players with no role whatsoever. This website is funny because you'll see people who think platoon bats are the only way to use the 13th position player spot. I have no problem with the Guardians using Petey Halpin as a nearly daily defensive replacement. That's a real, defined role. Kyler Fedko wasn't a platoon bat. James Outman wasn't a platoon bat. They weren't trusted to hit against anyone. But they also weren't defensive replacements or elite base stealers. They were guys with no role at all. Players the coaching staff had no situation where they looked at those guys as the best options or wanted to put them in. That is very different than teams having limited roles for a player like Halpin. The Phillies are a good example as @arby58 has pointed out with Stubbs as their 3rd catcher having no real role. But it is absolutely outside the norm to have a guy on your roster that you never want to put on the field.

Petey Halpin has been optioned multiple times this year. He's played nearly every day when he's been on the MLB roster. Garrett Stubbs, the 3rd catcher in Philly, hasn't been on the MLB roster all season and plays LF, 3B, and 1B for them beyond catching. I never claimed the Twins were alone. But they are outside the norm. And context matters. James Outman wasn't a Petey Halpin defender who played every game for his glove, he was a guy who wasn't the best option for anything. The Phillies situation is certainly closer with Stubbs.