laloesch

First of all re-read my post. I said "he is tradeable." That's all. Kapish? I didn't say the Twins would in all likelihood have to eat most of his remaining salary, I didn't say anything about low upside, poor performance, or what teams are willing to pay for him in comparison to Edwin Jackson whom you are implying is a much "better workhorse." Stop putting words in my mouth.

Because he only has two years left on his deal and he has been a work horse since 2008 (with the exception of 2015). Doesn't mean I like him.

Maybe the right deal hasn't come along. The point is though that he is tradeable. Contrary to some of the blogs here stating he is "GOING NOWHERE"

I got news for the posters here, Nolasco is ABSOLUTELY tradeable, given the huge salaries of starting pitchers.

CF.....really? He makes Jacque Jones arm look like a cannon.

#1 Santana PED suspension. Huge hit to the team. Probably 4 or 5 win difference at least. #2 Starting rotation meltdown after the all-star break where the Twins won 5 of 21 games. Cost us the playoffs and illustrated how weak the rotation could be especially without Santana. Tommy Milone, Kyle Gibson and Phil Hughes all horrible in this stretch. #3 Joe Mauer's continued implosion that began in earnest in 2014. Having FULLY recovered from concussion symptoms for 2 + years, Joe surprisingly(or unsurprisingly to some) continued declining in almost every statistical category despite round after round of scathing rebuttals by his supporters on this forum. Again, his lack of production was a significant reason the Twins fell short of the playoffs. #4 Trevor May banished to the bullpen in favor of Mike Pelfrey. Despite some shorter outings early in the season Trevor was the Twins best starter early on. Unfortunately for him, MIke Pelfrey made a big big stink about being sent to the pen and Trevor was sent there in early July due to lack of quality relievers. This became a much bigger factor later on in the season when Mike became ineffective as he stopped using his split finger fastball. #5 As many here correctly predicted before the season began, the bullpen was a thorn in our side. When it became apparent that they were in full meltdown mode after the break Ryan failed to take corrective measures in time which cost the team on the order of 8-10 wins. Moving Trevor May to the bullpen was a desperation move and the Jepsen trade was too little too late. Huge fail on Terry Ryan's part.

Agreed. A rotation of Santana, Hughes, Gibson, May and Berrios / Duffey is far superior to the rotation in 2015.

If Ryan feels it's necessary to clear the logjam he will. Milone is easily tradeable and so is Gibson. Neither of whom are anything more than #3 or #4 starters at their best. What they do have going for them is youth. People do forget though that Hughes is 29 going on 30 and is just one year older than Gibson. If Hughes rebounds and pitches closer to 2014 numbers he can be EASILY moved. And despite what some posters INSIST on these forums, Nolasco is absolutely tradeable. Sure it may not be easy, but match part of his salary, package him up with Plouffe and you could get rid of him and get something halfway decent in return. Now Santana....that's a different story. At his best he's a #1 or #2, but inconsistency has been his Achilles heel and he's on the wrong side of 30 . I think next season at some point we'll see a rotation of Hughes, Santana, Gibson, May, Duffey / Berrios. I think Nolasco moves to the bullpen, is traded along with someone else, or hits the long term disabled list with a mystery injury.

I disagree. With Plouffe as the primary commodity in any deal and Nolasco as ancillary, all the TWins need to do is sweeten the pot to get something worthwhile in return. Maybe part of his salary and or a lower level prospect. You won't be giving Plouffe away for free. Someone will bite if for the only reason that Nolasco is a proven innings eater, only has two years left on his deal and Plouffe is icing on the cake.

He's definitely a trade able commodity. That's the angle I would pursue. I think you have to find spots for Duffey, May and Berrios eventually.

That would be the angle I would pursue as well. You want Plouffe but carefully…..push Nolasco into the deal. Because of the shortage of available 3rd basemen this offseason, I think now is the prime opportunity to get something for Trevor. Ryan absolutely should deal him.

Lets just see if he can make the team in any capacity in 2016. Remember he lost his starting gig in Rochester. He lacked control, confidence and walked a ton of people.

My thoughts exactly. Twins might as well trade away Vargas, Kepler and Walker for nothing. With Sano moving to the outfield and the acquisition of Palka and possible signing of Park they have no need to keep these three marginal prospects anymore. Lets be realistic, it was an outside chance that any of them had a shot at the lineup over the next two to three years. Everyone knows that Plouffe will get a four or five year deal next season and Mauer will be extended another 4. With Park becoming full-time DH soon there is no room for any of the kids to move up.

Just seems like a ton of money for a guy who hasn't even proven he can hit MLB pitching at any level. I don't know. Unless the Twins plan on unloading salaries soon this team will be close to tapped out even before they start looking at catchers and relievers. Seems like huge risk, high bust potential considering the KBO is at best equivalent to AA ball.

Bit of a stretch don't you think. How bout 22-25 homeruns and 80-85 rbi. Not bad but not extraordinary.

Assuming Park moves into the lineup immediately how does that effect the order? Does he bat cleanup?

Agreed. Time to move on. Trade Santana to another team that could use him. Twins have options on the way up and he's only taking up a valuable roster slot. Trade him.

Gibson for Tex straight up? No way. Too much money, wrong side of 30 and only one more year in his deal. However, if the Yank want pitching now, let them take their pick from (Nolasco, Hughes and Santana). That would have to be the deal. Preferrably Nolasco and Hughes.

"Really good?" Depends on what you mean by "really good." Does that mean Ace or good/ decent starter? Certainly the Twins have a need for the former (ace), but the later....well we have several of those already and more on the way. Again, as I was saying earlier in this thread, posters need to settle down and be careful how quickly they hype up this kid (Sonny Gray), before running out and selling Berrios(probably our best SP prospect to come along in a decade), for a pitcher with only 2.5 years of major league experience. It would be one thing if Sonny had won 18- 20+ games the past two years, but 14 wins and 10 losses (2014) and 14 wins 7 losses (2015), 7.3 k/9, with a 2.73 era is good but not ace good....yet

Really? Do you have a crystal ball?

Depends on which season were talking about here. In 2015 he was better at home, but in 2014 he was much better on the road. Coincidence?

Prospects are a crapshoot everyone knows that. The argument is whether or not the Twins trade one of their best starting pitching prospects to come along in years AND Kepler (who may be overvalued) for a pitcher that only has 2.5 years of major league experience and whose stats have teetered on the edge of good, possibly more. It's a gamble. Personally, I'd have to see a bit more before biting into a deal like that. There are too many good pitchers coming available this offseason and the Twins already have a glut of starting pitchers with big contracts that they can't easily rid themselves of. The 60% number is a fake number. It's not a stat, it's the straw man argument being made here.

I don't understand your point. Of course a rookie prospect is not going to be instantly on par with Sonny Gray. He's had 2.5 seasons at the major league level to get started. And where do you get this 60% number from? That statement along with "he won't be one of the 10-20 best SP the next three years, " is just assine. How do you know? And are you saying that Sonny Gray is a top 10-20 best starting pitcher in MLB? Berrios has excelled at every level he's been called up to in a very short period of time. Whose to say that if he does gets called up next April or early May that he won't have a good rookie season. In a year or two he could close the perceived skill gap on Sonny very quickly. Don't get me wrong, Gray is good but there's a lot of very good starters in MLB that will be available soon. Why give up Berrios and Kepler for a guy that's not been around very long, has a dropping k/9 rate, whose looked quite tired down the stretch in only his third full season and really hasn't put up ace like numbers across the board just yet. I would be careful how quickly we elevate this kid to "ace status." Give him a year or two more before trading away the crown jewel of the farm system.

Agreed. First of all, lets just knipp this hypothetical in the behind with a dose of realism. Oakland has said on many occasions that Gray is UNTOUCHABLE. They are in the midst of rebuilding and are not going to trade him come hell or high water. That said, im just flabbergasted by some of the comments coming from the senior posters on this site that somehow think that Berrios is "likely not going to amount to anything" and worth giving up along with Kepler for a song and a dance. Would I like to have Sonny Gray? Yes. I'm sure almost every Twins fan would love to have him. But remember he only has two full years of major league experience and hugely benefits from pitching in that cavernous toilet bowl of a stadium in Oakland. If anything his k/9 would drop below 7 to the high 6's (Kyle Gibson territory) at Target Field. That's a far cry from the high 8-10k's per 9 innings you expect to get from an ace. Guys like Arrieta, Fernandez, Sale, Kershaw, Greinke, Scherzer, etc. Would I give up Kepler and Berrios for Gray, no-way!

Agreed. The only way we go for a big name pitcher is we shed two of the big three (Nolasco, Hughes & Santana). Probably in that order. I really would like to see Berrios, May and Duffey in the rotation for a full season before going for an ace caliper starter. Honestly, I don't see it happening especially with Mauer and Nolasco's monstrous contracts on the books for the next 2-3 years. I'd rather see the Twins invest in a good young catcher even if it means giving up Gibson and other prospects to get him.