DocBauer

Absolutely love the site! And I also come to it at least a couple times a day just to see if there is something new or added, whether it be a forum, blog, or even addition replies. I used to read every blogger here on their individual sites, and when Twins Daily came along to provide the most comprehensive Twins site available, I was in Twins Fandom heaven. I am pleased, even a little proud, to now be a part of this community with my own shares. In the future, I'd like to personally expand my own contributions with blogs and the such. As a lifelong Twins fanatic, the only thing I can think of to improve or expand on would be minor league coverage. I know many of you devote a great deal of time already to the Twins minor leagues, but I sometimes find milb.com and said sites to be a little lacking in their coverage. Not sure specifically what to add, links and the such, but perhaps a few more bits of information as to who is doing well, showing improvement, scouting reports, etc. just to keep us with the prospects and teams if at all possible. Mostly, just keep up the good work. The best baseball site around!

Agreed the older guys should be, hopefully will be, filler players. Really like the future prospects of both Goodrum and Polanco. Polanco just seems to have that "it" factor of an all around good player who may not have much HR power, but the ability to hit, take some walks, hit in the clutch, drive the ball, take an extra base and steal a few, etc. The only negative I've ever heard, not seeing him in person, is pure arm strength. Could anyone shed some light on this matter? I have tasted before that while a strong arm is a quality asset for a SS at any level is important, there is more to the position than simply that. There is positioning, soft hands, accuracy, body control and a quick release. Goodrum really intrigues me! He's a young man still gaining experience, growing as a ball player, but also seemingly growing and maturing physically. In an earlier thread, he was one of my milb players I picked to click this season. I see a gifted athlete, who when his light bulb snaps on, could really impress. Always liked and rooted for Beresford, though it seems he's just never going to muscle up any. But another Jeff Reboulet for us perhaps? And no question Santana has a great deal of athleticism to develop in to at least a versatile, helpful INF even if he never fully approaches his ceiling. Lots of unknowns here, but compared to our INF situation just a couple years ago, plus the emergence of Dozier and potential of Rosario, it is so very refreshing to see we at least have some real talented possibilities over the next few seasons.

I think there's about 3 or 4 who could either be primed, or sort of come out of "nowhere", so to speak. I have high hopes for Hicks to take what he learned last year and make a move. I think Tonkin is ready to roll and will foce his way in to the bullpen, barring anyone else injured, at the expense of Pressly more than likely. If anything happens to Suzuki or Pinto to disappoint or some injury factor, Fryer could surprise. Not overly high on him, but in his milb past he has shown a better ability to make contact and work a count than he did last season in AAA. Is he maybe ready to improve this season? And Twin Cities scribe Powers recently brought up a very interesting name that has had me intrigued for some time in Deibinson Romero. Now, all bets are probably off if the Twins still sign another veteran utility guy like Tucker, Baker, Reynolds or the such. Or a sudden return o some form of Bartlett. But a few years ago Romero looked like a pretty decent prospect at 3B, some 1B, with decent hitting and power. He always maintained a pretty good OB% as well. He seemed to find himself again in 2012, and if it wasn't for his late arrival to the states in 2013, a solid year might have been even better.

I'm voting Garza for two reasons. The first being rather obvious, you can never have enough quality pitching, especially in the rotation. His addition, talent and past production and youth, offers the Twins the best overall rotation in years with Nolasco, Hughes, Pelfrey, and however the rest plays out. The second reason is you can never have enough quality pitching, especially in the rotation. And barring an influx of injuries, his signing would probably allow the Twns to trade or package Correia for a value. And even when Gibson, a healthy Deduno and a ready Meyer are ready to fill a spot, there should be no reason they couldn't move a Pelfrey or possibly Hughes to another club in need.

Thank you for this elaborate breakdown. I'm a bit old fashioned in that I'm still not up on all the advanced metrics. However, just looking at his career peripheral numbers, I've felt he was a quality performer who perhaps underachieved, or at least didn't get the results you might expect. Also felt that some of that might have simply been playing on poor teams in the past.

An interesting and pretty fair take I'd say. Though I don't understand the reference to Buxton as the future #2 hitter. I suppose he'd be a beast in that spot, but not sure I see another lead off hitter on the immediate horizon. I have a feeling Hicks will play out as an excellent corner OF with power and speed, possibly decent OB skills considering a pretty good eye in the minors, but not sure he'll hit for a high enough average at the MLB level. Which is fine! Great corner defense, a great arm, perpetual 20-20 threat with 30+ doubles and some triples tossed in is a dangerous and welcome player. Dozier/Rosario, regardless of position, appear to be potentially very good #2 hitters. I feel Buxton is odds on favorite for lead off sometime in the next year or so. Eventually, I feel he makes the move to #3 the way Puckett did. And I have to say, I found the reference to Eric Davis very interesting. I had thought Griffey Jr to be a good comparison, albeit with a little less power probably. I'm a bit more optimistic as to this season than Passan in that I believe the SP signed are a better improvement than he is seeming to expect, particularly Nolasco and Hughes. And I do believe the offense will be better just having Arcia for a full season, despite some roller coaster moments no doubt, as well as a healthy Mauer and Willingham. Hopefully a repeat, or near repeat for Dozier. As I stated elsewhere, hope his power continues, but could see some regression there but with a higher Avg and OB. There is no great expected production or future development for Presley, I don't believe. But considering how dreadful our lead off position was last season, having him there for a full season would STILL be an improvement. Especially if he can show improvement in SB's this season, something his milb track record shows. While OB skills are probably the most important prerequisite for a lead off hitter, I believe there is another school of thought that can prove fairly effective. A #1 hitter who actually can hit a little, get OB at least above a .300 clip, and provide some speed and XB power can still be valuable and still help ignite an offense. Think Dan Gladden back in the day. No matter how deep and talented the Twins system is beyond our top, seems like they simply can't miss, prospects, you know a few of them simply will, for some reason or another. But when I look at Meyer, Gibson and Mays arriving soon, Barrios, Gonsalves and Stewart down the road, Polanco, Goodrum, Walker, Hicks, Vargas, Kepler and a few others, I get positively giddy! I almost wish we could skip ahead to 2015.

In regard to giving up the value of a 2nd round pick, I don't know the exact percentages of a 2nd round pick reaching the majors and becoming at least a solid, contributing ball player regardless of position. Considering the very unsure and volatile nature of the draft in general, it certainly can't be a high percentage. But simple logic would dictate it is a higher percentage/occurrence than a 3rd round pick, or a 4th or 5th, etc. So I believe the debate has to be the willingness to give up that possibility of potential for a so-called "proven commodity". And in some cases, especially when a team is there, or almost there, the sacrifice is probably a good idea. Conversely, doing this fairly often further deprives a team of actually finding a good young player. Further, a prospect may not even help your team directly, but may be traded directly or packaged to make another move to acquire a helpful player. Losing a second round pick by itself may not have a lasting affect on a team. (Though there is always the risk of missing out on someone good) But there is also the culmative affect of repeatedly doing so, not to mention the affor mentioned trade possibilities. The ability to acquire talent, depth of talent, is a valuable resource in any sport. Certainly not opposed to the Twins improving at SS, but there is the possibility that Floriman improves at least some offensively. Or he may be part of a platoon with Escobar. Or Escobar may yet win the spot outright. And we don't know yet how good Santana may turn out. (Or Goodrum a couple years away) I don't resist change, just don't want t knee jerk a change on a re-building team that does, at least in the short term, have some options to consider. At least in the short term.

At this point I don't know that he has much of anything to prove in the minors. (Yes he has things to work on!) I expect streaks as well as peaks and valleys. He's little more than an almost 23yo rookie. At this point, on a rebuilding club, getting younger all the time, I believe you run with him most days, sit him on occasion to collect himself once in a while. I have a lot of faith in the Twins coaching staff as a whole. With the addition of Molitor, we now have four different coaches that have had various degrees of success as hitting instructors both in the minors and majors. Each has received positive reviews at different times collectively, and with/from individual players. And the staff seems to work well together as a whole, no egos getting in the way. I think this offers a lot of potentially good coaching not only for Arcia, but also the other young hitters on the way up.

Want it, but say no at this time. In an ideal situation, Sano's elbow is just fine, he builds upon what he did at AA last season and moves to AAA pretty quickly before finishing at some point with the Twins. Possibly all star break-ish or fairly soon after. Along with that, the uber-talented and hard working Buxton, coming off his fantastic season, and some work in ST with the Twins coaches, tears up AA pretty well before his jump to AAA and finishes the season in the majors. But I don't see it for a couple simple reasons. The first being that the stop at AA has always been reputed to be the most difficult first jump, and at his still very young age, there is no reason to rush him (push yes, rush no) and offer any set backs. And the second is also somewhat age related in so much that last season and a full season this year will obviously be the most ball he's ever played consecutively. Perhaps so many games and four levels in two years might be enough, and then a bit of a break before seeing if he might be ready to start, or advance early on, in 2015. However, if it doesn't affect his clock very much, or at all, I COULD see a Sept. cup of coffee just to work with the MLB coaches more, take OF and batting practice, and just explore and experience MLB after another strong season. With his talent, who knows, maybe he just blows us all away and forces the issue!

I suppose my lineup is not much different, but of course I have to post it anyway since it's been on tablets, scratch paper and napkins pretty much since the season ended. Trying to keep it practical with a couple small liberties. 1) Presley=LF. (Possibly some Mastro or a utility like Baker on occasion) 2) Dozier=2B 3) Mauer=1B 4) Willingham=DH (more than likely Kubel here as well switching out lineup occasionally) 5) Arcia=RF 6) Plouffe=3B (hoping for a bench LH bench bat to swap out on occasion) 7) Pinto=C (Suzuki might drop a notch in the lineup when he plays) 8) Hicks=CF (my pick as rebound candidate, defense, power & speed-hitting in works) 9) Floriman/Escobar=SS (platoon or either could win outright. Bartlett? Shrug-maybe) Keep coming up with a 14 man roster even though I'm sure it will only be 13. Also torn on LF and RF. Arcia is work in progress, but decent athlete/range and arm for right, and the faster Presley covers more ground in the larger LF. Or, the more polished Presley in RF and the still developing Arcia in LF where a mistake might be less costly.

My response and overall opinion: First, my soapbox. It is ridiculous and incompetent to have a system where voters have 10 spaces to fill in deserving names, especially this year with so many great talents and proven producers, and fill in only 1, or a couple names. The whole steroid era thing aside and not being discussed, you can't look with an objective eye and intelligent mind and find at least a few of these great former multiple all star players and at leas say, "he might be deserving" (fill in the blank yourself) Jaque Jones got a vote for goodness sake! Lifelong Twins fan here who loved me some Jaque Jones when he played, but, a hall of fame vote? Really? Now to the main point. This is NOT directed toward anyone at all, just a frustrated response to those in charge of voting on these matters. I believe statistics/numbers help measure the value of a player in any sport. But I also believe we can comb through statistics with too fine a tooth at times. Baseball, like any sport, has different eras. And as such, each era must be considered unto itself. As an example, using the NFL, would QBs such as Tittle or Graham or Starr be hall of famers compared to Tarkenton, Fouts, Marino and others? Probably not. My belief in Morris as a HOFer is much like my feelings and arguments for Blyleven when he struggled to make it in. It has nothing to do with Morris hailing from MN, or the title he helped us win. It has to do with what he did, who he was, what he accomplished "in his era". What is an era in sports? That's hard to define. Let's say roughly a 10 to possible 15 year time frame where said player/athlete played and performed. Switching back to baseball, and Morris, you have to ask yourself; "was that player a star? When I think all star, premium player, guy who came through in the clutch and produced, guy I didn't want to face...was he one of those?" Numbers tell part of the story, but not all. Some would argue Morris's SO rate and ERA. I would argue 250+ plus wins, 170+ complete games in a time when the CG began to disappear, endurance, big game performance, and when you thought of a bulldog on the mound you didn't want to face in a big game, you thought of Morris. Thought most of the 80's and early 90's, when you thought of what an ACE was, you put Morris on that list. Again, statistics can only tell part of the story. When I think of a player who produced in a large fashion, who was one of the best of his era, multiple all star, a guy you wanted on your team but didn't want your team to face, that's a hall of famer.

I know it sounds like an over simplification, but really, the offense can't be worse than last season, and should be better simply from a better health standpoint, and at least a small influx of talent that may not be over yet. Mauer doesn't need a sudden surge, though it could happen of course. Just being healthy and producing at a rate he was last year, but over a full season would show improved production in itself. Now, fresher legs and hands certainly could show at least some improvement. Willingham healthy, and just hitting at or close to his "career norm" would also be a marked improvement. He doesn't have to duplicate 2012. And I still believe a transition to DH is in order, and he has a perfect mentor in Molitor. Arcia will no doubt prove streaky. But the talent is wonderful. And when the smoke clears and dust settles, I believe his numbers will be solid and a bright future is ahead. i am on board with Dozier. Even if the power regresses, and it might not, in another posting I commented on other players who develop power later and make adjustments, but even if it does and he shows an increase in Avg and OB%, which he showed n the minors, you've got a really solid contributor. Now Presley is nothing special. But there is no question he has more upside than the Clete Thomases of the world. I'm hoping he, or he and a healthy Mastro, can keep the lead off spot from being a black hole until Buxton arrives. I see a decent 1 through 5 with some questions in the lower half. The optimistic side of me sees Hicks down there somewhere, as previously stated, showing some speed and power, (with defense) and improving his Avg at least 20-30 points. If so, his combination of skills can still help as he continues to gain experience and find his game. Plouffe is an enigma who is still young enough and talented enough to provide at least a little hope, especially if we can find a nice complimentary player to spell him from time to time and hit LH. Floriman and Escobar as a platoon might bring up production at 9. And while I don't expect Pinto to set the world on fire immediately, there is no question the kid has talent and knows how to hit. Without heavy wear and tear, Suzuki can hit and help at least a little. As much as I would love to put faith in Kubel, I can't. He could turn out to be a real steal as a buy low possibility. But unless the Twins go out and sign Drew, or make some other move at SS, I feel the best course of action is a nice role player or two to come off the bench and fit in; e.g. Baker, Betemit, Young, etc. The future is very bright with Sano, Buxton, Arcia, Pinto, Rosario and others further down the line. But in the meantime, a healthier lineup of what we have, a couple good role players, and I think we will see at least decent improvement. Someone mentioned a 100 run improvement. Perhaps optimistic, but not unrealistic.

Dozier is a good all around athlete. And he wouldn't be the first player to develop more power as he matures physically in to his prime, and with good instruction and adjustments develops said power. Now, that being said, a dip in power, but a return to a higher Avg. and OB%, more in keeping with what he showed in the minors, wouldn't be a bad thing. Now, if he can do both, wow.

Loveitloveitloveit! I believe Berrios has excellence written all over him. All reports are of a good natured kid, excellent athlete and tireless worker with some potentially excellent stuff. I don't buy the argument about him not being 6' plus and 220 or more. Not every successful pitcher comes n a tailored size. And some of the bigger guys don't throw as hard as you would think their size demands. Now, despite work ethic and athleticism, I suppose it's possible he might lack the endurance to be a consistent 200+ plus IP guy every season, but look at Pedro Hernandez as an example. And a bit of a late fade last year is common for someone so young in the lower minors maturing and building himself up. I am also very high on Gonsalves, who conversely does have a more ideal build. If it wasn't for the reported incident where he tried to cover an indiscretion of some teammates, he would have gone sooner. If his still good last season had been even a bit more successful, he would have gone higher. And we're not even having this discussion because someone else would have taken him. The young man is highly projectile, has good natural stuff, and hats off to the Twins scouts for doing their homework.

Don't have personal experience watching him, but Matt Koch just really sticks out to me as a quality defensive and offensive backstop. Have a hunch he's going to round in to a really nice player.

No doubt SS is the most prime position on the field, and in the lineup, for the Twins to improve on, considering who is either currently at other positions, or should be very soon. And I have no doubt that Drew would indeed improve the over all lineup, though I feel we would slip slightly defensively. Make no mistake, while SP has been our greatest weakness and priority, better now but still in need of improvement, (Garza!), I would be quite happy if we could also afford to bring on Drew for $8-10M for a handful of years. But if I play devil's advocate myself, I have to ask how much real improvement you're getting by the move? Adding Drew's "better offense" at the SS position is not the same as a slugger/rbi producer, top of the leader board batting average, or bona-fide dangerous leadoff hitter. And I am not one to suggest the Pohlads squirrel away potential payroll dollars for the sake of a mystery nest egg somewhere. But just because you have money to spend, doesn't always mean you should spend it. Let's say we make the move for Garza and then also follow through with Drew, pretty much tapping all payroll for this season, and offering some limitation in flexibility for next season. It could make a trade move or FA signing more difficult. Also, are we positive there isn't a better SS available next year when the team may be theoretically closer to contention? Or could we trade some assets in the system to make a move for a younger, talented SS that we could control for longer as the team grows in to contention together? Again, nothing against Drew, I'm just not sure it's a prudent move at this juncture than improves us enough to make the deal.

Previously I had stated liking the idea of more money per year, rumored by the Twins, but for less years, say 3 or possibly 3 with some sort of mutual option, possibly incentive based. My thinking has changed after taking a step back, looking deeper in to Garza's overall success in the AL East and his recent 4 plus year run. Even fighting a non-serious injury of late he produced well when on the mound. Considering his relatively young age still, I say move to a 4 year deal with a club option, a buyout that is fair, and perhaps an automatic kicker based on starts or innings pitched. That would be the best indicator of whether or not you'd even want him that 5th year. If he's healthy and producing you keep him. If not, the buyout. Seems a win-win for both sides. And was pointed out to me recently, my version of the "52%" rule of revenue for payroll was off a bit as the Twins were actually under the norm last season. Therefore we can more easily afford the Garza deal, and still retain our financial flexibility. Especially with a possible trade then of Correia. And as I have pointed out previously, and just above me as well, there could be a lot of teams by ST or the end at least, more than willing and needing a veteran innings eater on the cheap without a long-term tie. My only concern is Garza's health. And I don't mean the arguement that anyone can be hurt at any time. Is there anything we're missing in regard to Garza's health? I've never heard any mention of health issues before, or long term concerns, and not sure I remember even hearing about the screw in his arm.

Aaron Hicks. Let me say it again, Aaron Hicks. Honestly, he probably deserves his own thread at this point, but decided to address it here. A super talented athlete who has drawn comparisons to Torri Hunter since the day he was drafted. Not only for his tremendous athleticism, defense in CF, but also for his smaller town beginnings, raw ability, and a need to develop. And develop he did/has done! The young man is only 24, the age when most prospects are at AA or sniffing AAA for the first time, maybe. Check out his milb numbers before you move on. It's only 5 seasons, one of them short, just out of high school. Average, OB%, power and speed in the GCL. A bypass of Elizabethton straight to Beloit where he posts an OK .251/.353/.735. Not spectacular, but pretty good considering his age, the high rookie jump, and his relative "rawness". He repeats Beloit the next season and has a triple slash improvement of: .279/.401/.829 2011 he is advanced to High-A Ft. Myers and produces .242/.354/.722 The Twins then sent him to AA the next season, 2012, where he exploded, showing his full potential for the first time with a slash of .286/.384/.844. We all know how 2013 worked out. The trades of Span and Revere for pitching help and open competition for the starting CF spot that fell to Hicks based on a strong ST and a whole lot of hope. It didn't work out the way the Twins, or any of us, hoped. But he did have a great ST showing his ability. And despite a horribly slow start to his pro debut, he DID show improvement until he was injured. And despite less than hoped for re-hab numbers at AAA, Glynn himself has said recently that Hicks was their best player the last few weeks of the season. So why has this super talented, young, former top 100 milb player suddenly been demoted to disappointment, or as I've read 4th OF, status? If you take a logical step back for just a moment you will realize not only a rush to the majors, but also a rush to judgement. Hicks is still a top athletic talent with superior skills. He may not be as gifted as Buxton but so what! He still has the talent to be an excellent corner OF and fill in CF behind Buxton with power, speed, and OB%, even if he never becomes a "great" hitter. And who decides that after ONE defining season in the minors before being rushed to the majors? For 2014, offensively speaking, we have to consider a healthy and productive Mauer and Willngham. (DH &/or OF) But other than the likes of Sano, Buxton or Rosario rising to the occasion, there may not be a position player who plays a more important part in the 2014 season than Aaron Hicks. Consider, as I have stated often, his outstanding defense in CF with the solid Presley and the learning but athletic and talented Arcia in the corner OF positions with the improved SP staff. Then consider a young, rushed, talent still learning and improving, who might not light the world on fire his second year, but could still hit at the bottom of the order and give you 20/20 potential with 30+ doubles, some triples, and overall potential.

Agreed. If traded, it will because of his bat, and the receiving team will hide him at DH or LF. No-one would trade for Willingham for his defense, but rather a healthy and productive bat. His defensive prowess, such as it is, is already well known. Personally, if back to his career norms, and any offers available are lacking in any sort of real quality, not so sure I wouldn't just keep him for the entire season and then re-visit the DH position then.

Doubtful in my opinion, though I'd take a flyer on a milb contract and ST invite. He hits LH, as does the younger Presley, and he offers very little in the way of power. I think Presley is the younger and better option at this point, with some room to improve. Now, if that flyer would work out, Hicks isn't ready at the start of the season and we could play both so Willingam could DH full time, now I have some interest.

Re-visiting the beginning of the off season, after best guesses for arbitration/settlement numbers the Twins should have had $23-25M to work with in money saved from last year's payroll. We'll go on the high side for argument sake. Now add in 52% of additional $25M new TV money and you get another $13M added for a total of $38M to work with. Now you can argue the new $25M is "free" money and the Twins could/should just spend it all. And I do believe it is entirely possible the will exceed the normal 52% rule to make the team better. But for the moment, let's work within the normal budget parameters of the Twins as we know it. Adding Kubel, speculating he rebounds and makes it, and the trade of Doumit, is virtually a wash. So again, $38M to work with initially. Minus Nolasco, Hughes and Pelfrey signings takes us down to about $12M still available for a role player or two, and possibly one more "major" signing of sorts. This allows you to sign Drew. You lose a little defense compared to Floriman/Escobar but do gain better offense. But does signing Drew really make the Twins that much better? As someone pointed out, are we a decent offensive SS away from making a move? Or are we better off taking that money, adding a few $M more and signing Garza, a proven, quality #2, who instantly becomes out #1 SP, and occasionally pitches like it too. This bumps everyone else in the rotation down a notch, deepens the overall talent level of the rotation, gives us an even higher percentage chance of being in the game and winning daily. It follows the Twins would then have the option of trading Correia immediately, or during SP for ________________? (prospect of some sort undoubtedly) Or he might be packaged for a better return. Or part of a multi team trade that could net a young SS. Or replenish a player used in such a deal from our system. But you have options, and decent veteran SP is almost always tradeable, especially in this case where the player is cost effective and not tied to a long term investment. Taking Correia's contract off the books helps pay for Garza, and the Twins are still pretty much right on budget. This allows them to take on additional contracts later in the year, or next when Willingham comes off the books. As stated earlier, I would be ecstatic if the Twins signed both players. But being realistic, to do so would require a complete investment of all available finances, the entire $25M plus $25M. This leaves very little financial wiggle room next season for further improvements/investments on the team. So while I like the idea of adding Drew, adding player B, Garza, helps the club to a higher degree. You don't lose a high draft choice as compensation. You still have some decent options at SS and the bottom of the order. And you have financial flexibility for this season and next. And if ou want to upgrade the SS position, and don't feel Santana is the guy, or isn't ready, work a trade for a younger player with upside you can have under control longer.

I like the idea of Betemitt or Young, not so much Reynolds, not for full time defensive positions, of course, but as bats and role players off the bench. Have also come on board for the versatile Baker filling a number of roles. Not in favor, however, of trading anyone from the pen until someone steps up in a way to prove they are ready to fill that new hole. I really like the idea of a Drew signing. Might step down a it defensively from Floriman/Escobar, but would definitely improve the overall lineup depth. But again, sooner or later there is a financial wall to consider and spending will cease. Now, I would dance a really ugly jig if the Twins signed Drew AND Garza, plus one or two previously mentioned bench options. But I just don't see it happening. Especially when word has it the Twins might be offering more per year to Garza to hep keep the years down. Drew would be very nice. But offer him to me for 8-10M per OR Garza, and I'm picking the high quality rotation piece and sticking with Floriman/Escobar and hopefully a little offensive improvement either from natural progression, or simply platoon splits.

I do know he rejected a $14+M qualifying offer to seek a longer and bigger? contract. Again, anyone who can support what I have seen/read previously?

Totally agree! Just feel there are more important areas to improve overall. Such as the potential Gaza signing. Again, don't get me wrong, a signing of Drew isn't a bad thing at all. My concerns are years and dollars vs other options.

Last I heard/read, please someone correct me if wrong, Boston was holding out to UP or match, but I heard reports of 10m per and 3 years. Which means at least 8M per if the market slides. Am I wrong? I swear I saw such demands.