DocBauer

First and foremost, I have to state that I am a Gardenhire fan. I think he's a good guy, a good baseball manager, overall. I honestly think highly of the majority of his coaches as well, Bruno, Molitor, Cuellar, Steinbach and yes, even Anderson, especially when you look at the bullpens he's helped assemble over the years, and some staffs that weren't as talented as other playoff/winning rosters but seemed to squeeze max value out of most. I maintain the major hole is the presence of a quality Latin coach and baseball guy for a number of the Twins young players, and those on their way. I also maintain Gardy and his staff get a mulligan for 2011 as the Twins returned most of the team from the 95 win, division winning team of 2010. A couple things didn't work, and the team was absolutely devastated by injuries that no-one could have planned or worked for. I also it's really easy to blame the manager/head coach after a couple and seasons or three. Every season brings about SOME injuries and poor performances, and you have to be able to work through and around those issues. Everyone does. But you can also only manage what you've been given to work with. And without question, there have been holes and questionable to wrong personnel groupings to expect Gardenhire or anyone else to have to work with. Ryan himself has shouldered some of that blame, and deservedly so. Gardy undoubtedly shares some of this blame as well as I doubt Ryan builds a roster in a solely inhabited vacuum. Again, forgetting 2011, 2012 & 2013, to me, felt as though there was a collective lack of proper vision. All that being said, I also believe it is probably time now to make a change. I was generally pleased when Gardy was brought back this year, but I also would have been fine if the change had taken place last year. There can simply be times when the message of a manager and staff can become lost. There can be times when a manager simply doesn't connect with the players he has now, or he himself gets bogged down when things start to go wrong. Sometimes, that new voice, that new perspective is necessary to jump start a program. Or, more to the point in the Twins case, someone who might simply communicate and work better with prospects. I'm not necessarily sold on going "outside" the organization as Molitor may have the stuff to be a quality manager. Former Twin Mike Redmond, were he suddenly made available, might be an excellent choice. In the minors, soon if not now, I think Mauer and Dougie Baseball may have to chops to do well. I think there's a difference from JUST hiring from within, as opposed to actually having a quality candidate, or more, available to or from your organization.

Ann shoot! That barely gives me time to say why I disagree with someone.

Jim, I hear ya! But in reality, good as he was, as much as I loved him, Radke was a #2. Perry, Kaat, Blyleven and Viola all ranked above.

Reality. Not saying Darnell isn't behind May and Meyer, but he's actually a prospect, as opposed to Pino or Johnson. And if you look at the rotation days, it's too early for May and Meyer to pitch Saturday. Reality.

THIS. This is telling to me on two separate fronts. The first is that what Pohlad says, possibly with some frustration, is true. A prospect is still a prospect until he's ready and produces. Yes, sometimes it takes a while, and sometimes he comes up, then goes down, comes back, and suddenly is better. More ready. There is absolutely nothing wrong or disparaging about the comment. Just honest commentary. Secondly, we saw a real shift in the Twins philosophy this past season with the FA moves they made. Did they do enough? No. Did they maximize opportunity and payroll? No. But did they make unprecedented moves? Yes. They will have even more payroll flexibility this next off season. This next offseason is still a ways away. And I don't expect Ryan or Gardy to go anywhere. But I think from what we saw last off season, and Jim's comments, despite several top prospects that may be ready, or close, I wonder if we won't see the Twins make a couple more very aggressive moves to fill in some holes. I think Jim is ready to make a couple moves to augment the roster for 2015. What do you think?

Once again Nick, a truly great article. No false flattery when I say it's one of the best, and most provocative, ever written here on TD. You really nailed the pulse of the fan base, as well as the various sides of the fence any and all of us find our feet planted...or shuffling in the grass. Even thoughts and opinions I might not fully agree with are well thought out, logical and passionate. Clear the decks boys! Lol Im devoted to this website, because I'm devoted to the Twins, and have been for about 43 years of my 48, most of them a similarly devoted radio listener who clamored for any scrap of information to be garnered before the Information Age, and TD in particular. Despite those who might excuse Ryan's history, he didn't always make the best moves early in his career. He made mistakes. Erickson for Klingenbeck being an example. But for the most part, he built a heck of a team and system for many years that won an awful lot of games, a lot of playoff appearances, and made some tremdous trades and small FA moves that turned out very well. When Bill Smith took over, things didn't turn out as well. And people talk about nepotism with the Twins organization. But Smith did oversee an influx of some talented milb players, and did make an honest attempt to make moves that the Twins weren't know for. He was aggressive in ways the Twins and their fans weren't used to. History shows many of those moves didn't turn out. And yet, in Ryan's second term in charge, some clamor again for bold moves. Interesting. Whether it's time for a manager change or not is debateable, and has been. I don't always agree with Gardy but really like him. And his overall success has been very good. Debate all you want to about playoff records, and I'm not saying I disagree necessarily, but winning games and divisions and being in the hunt is a good thing. Over the past 25 years, or so, there has been some truly ugly baseball and seasons. But between McPhail and Ryan, Kelly and Gardenhire, there has also been a hell of a lot more success and good baseball and seasons. I love the "Twins Way" of doing things. It has meant more winning than losing, 2 World Series wins, multiple division championships, new academies in Central and South America, one of the absolute best milb ST/academy facilities in all of baseball, perhaps the most beautiful ballpark in all the ML's, and one of the top minor leagues in all of ball. The negative: Despite a solid FO and coaching staff, Ryan needs to realize the Twins don't compete in the Metrodome any longer. I don't know that he needs "fresh blood" in his office or not, but he does need a kick in the pants. The Twins aren't the Yankees, the Dodgers, the BoSox or a couple other high market teams, but he does need to let go of some of that small market team mentality he still clings to. The Twins have tremendous young talent on the way up. But he also can't just wait for it all to come to fruition as well. We as fans also have to temper expectation as well, simply giving these kids a real chance. Despite a coaching staff of quality individuals, and good baseball men, there has to be room made for a quality Latin baseball mind. I think this is blatantly obvious for the changes in ML culture, and a realization of the Twins young talent. I do find it odd when some complain about the Twins being stagnant and promoting too much from within, yet hail Molitor, Brunansky, Redmond, Mauer and Dougie Baseball as quality coaches and manager candidates who have partial and career ties to the Twins. Once again, I like the ideas of new ideas and new blood brought in to the organization. And I have been advocating mentioned Latin coach since 2013. I think what this team, what this organization, really needs is a couple really solid FA signings this off season, along with the development and promotion of a couple more talented youngsters. Despite multiple slings and arrows, and some really, really tough breaks to a couple top prospects, this has still been a much better, and much more fun season than the last few. And we've some really nice glimpses of youngsters. My soapbox. Stepping off now.

I think we're arguing different sides of the same coin. Yes, in a vacuum, in theory, every ML player potentially blocks a player below them, even a not as good player. My arguement was/is not in defense of various bad or poor decisions the FO made or didn't make, simply that the flyers they took out weren't a bad idea in of themselves, but mistakes in how they were implemented. I simply object to desperate angst that the moves made "blocked" a more deserving player at the time. None of the three, initially at least, "blocked" a more deserving player who had a good ST and seemed ready to take a roster spot. Perhaps I'm splitting hairs. I am in no way excusing poor execution to bring in a better option. I suppose I just grow tired of hearing voices tearing down decisions not to promote A and AA players and the such who aren't ready yet. We we mishandled Hicks and the entire CF situation. There should have been SOMEONE we could have brought on board. Again, Presley and Mastro were really not a factor. But, we had a glut of shortstops?? We did? Sorry, but I missed that one. I'm not saying Bartlett was anything more than a desperate move to find a veteran guy who had little chance of making a roster, and was questionable for AAA even. But other than the questionable Florimon, who I rooted for as a decent temp, and Escobar who either hadn't shown enough yet, or possibly more to the point, hadn't been given a full shot yet, what did we have? Bernier? Beresford? The young and unproven Santana who many questioned at the time? What OF/DH did Kubel block who was deserving? Once again, splitting fine hairs, and not excusing poor decisions to not to bring better options in. Guerrier never should have happened. He should have been nothing more than a break glass in case of emergency type who should have been allowed to walk if he didn't want to stay in AAA. My friend, please don't confuse the arguement of not blocking someone with not having brought in better options.

I agree. If this injury is indeed a minor hindrance, no reason Stewart couldn't come back and still get additional innings in August, probably part of a 6 man rotation, get some more time in, but not exceed his expected innings mark.

I believe Gonsalves is one of the top 2 or 3 most intriguing prospects in the entire Twins milb system. No, he's not at the prospect level of Berrios or Stewart...YET anyway. So why? His senior season was cut short due to controversy. A controversy that was later revealed to be disciple related due to covering for mistakes made by teammates. Before this, some say almost despite it, the young LH was rumored to be a potential 1st rounder who should/could have been selected in the top 40-50 or so. He's tall and angular and throws hard with some potentially nasty stuff. And his performance last year, and potential, seems to indicate the Twins got lucky, made a smart move, and could have a real potential steal on their hands. (FWIW, Thorpe is also near the top of my list). If you look over minor league rosters in the system, examine results in the Twins system this year and last, the Twins actually have a fairly large number of LHP's who are and have shown some good things. There's a couple who could end up being solid bullpen options. And a couple who might reach the Show if they continue to develop and perform. But most of them are in the "Slowey" range of ML possibility, topping out, perhaps, as a "Radke" or "Radke-esque" type starter. An actual, bonafide Santana type LHer, or even non-injured, non-head case Liriano, are very, very rare as we all know. I'm not saying Gonsalves ranks as a prospect of this nature...again...YET. But remember, Santana was a very young, strong-armed A ball player acquired via the rule 5 draft, and developed over a couple seasons by the Twins. He was NOT some top prospect. He wouldn't have been available otherwise. But Gonsalves has the frame, the initial velocity, the initial breaking ball reports, and the initial pure SO potential and stuff to develop in to something good, if not special. (since I mentioned him, Thorpe also). But I believe more than Berrios and Stewart, we need to be calm and patience with expectations. He needs time. He's probably at least 2 years from reaching AA status. And that's not a bad thing. My only concern is a lack of information. The way he finished last season, I think there was honest speculation that he would either open in Cedar Rapids, or be a quick addition. But it hasn't worked out that way. Was there a minor injury that held him back initially? Did he show up out of shape? Between numbers available and his young age, did they simply think he was better continuing to work in EST before coming up to finish the season as a starter when some guys might be promoted or shut down for the remainder of the season? I'd really like to know.

Does that mean he has to begin a fast food diet and walk with a limp now?

With Santana back, Hicks, gulp, a possible recall since he's already amidst options for this season, and Parmelee available as an emergency CF, double gulp, does Fuld have any trade value? Just asking.

I also think Suzuki is next. I have the feeling that the recent reports of an extension not being close, though it may be early in the process, may expedite a trade. I'm still in favor 2 years if the money doesn't exceed 5 and maybe even 6 per. And maybe it's just the speculation on here creating the illusion of talks and demand, but I'm begining to think a trade is happening soon. I still have serious questions about the value in return for Hammer and KC, but I also don't see them passing through waivers. They have just enough value that some team will attempt to either snag or block them. While the return may not be much, I think if the Twins want to control the return, they need to make a move before the deadline. I still think Duensing stays. He has some actual, real value, but that value, IMO, is greater to the Twins going forward the next year or two, than what a return may yield. I do think Burton, experienced veteran with 1 great year, 1 good year, and pretty good lately, has enough value to move for a little something more than a bag of balls and a bucket of bubblegum. But I think he could be moved after the deadline.

Dont believe Nunez is going anywhere. He's young, has some potential and versatility with a decent bat. Were he traded, you'd get another Sulburan type player back, and I don't think you've gained anything of value. I read where Colonel Mustard, newly hired VP assistant to the VP of marketing's assistant...recently hired to bring in new blood...and not the red stuff on the wrench...says the Twins like Nunez and consider him a real gamer.

No worries, reports are he injured an ankle tripping over an outfield chalk line. Not going anywhere at this time.

Will the down time allow others the opportunity to finish reading some of my posts?

Surprising this happened so soon, to echo John, and I do think it means more accelerated moves to come. Just don't expect big returns. Im a little surprised by this move. I would have thought a younger, lower level prospect with upside. However, it has been my speculation that with Burton not back next season, the Twins might sign a veteran bullpen arm to work the 7th and 8th innings in front of Perkins, allowing Tonkin, Achter and others to compete for middle roles while gaining experience. Adding another strong young arm like Pryor might change this thought process.

Going to have to agree disagree on this I'm afraid. Kubel was released as he should have been, though probably later than deserved, but never blocked anyone. While Barlett never should have spent a day on the roster, he didn't block a sole, and while it could be argued about Presley and Mastro in CF, their poor play in ST and this season further indicates they were not part of a solution or the Twins plans. And also, they thought so little of either at the time they made no moves to hold on to either. The problem there is, as has been hashed and re-hashed over and over again, not providing a viable alternative to begin with. But there was, at the time, no young CF or infielder knocking on the door that Barlett pushed aside or delayed. For or the past couple of months, yes, I will agree Guerrier has been blocking a younger player potentially. Absolutely. My point with him was very simple, he was AAA filler when the season started, and not blocking anyone from the ML roster.

Could have chosen a couple other similar responses, but this encapsulated things pretty well. The Burton move was a great one, the kind of move the Twins have been known for over the years. (They don't always work, of course, but they have many times) Morales and Nolasco haven't turned out yet, but were equally good moves. Get Nolasco healthy, have Morales in game shape, which is starting to happen, and then make a decision. Morales is going to hit next season too. The question is for who. Kubel is still early 30's, not that far removed from a quality season, and was brought on board as a reserve/DH option. Nothing wrong there. Guerrier was unnecessary in my opinion, but also was not that far removed from success, and was a cheap insurance policy that I didn't think they'd ever use. Bartlett was a bit of a head scratcher to be sure. He had practically been out of ball for 2 years. Remember though, we had Florimon at SS to begin the year at SS and nothing else but question marks. (I know, I know, I know) But the point here isn't to defend these signings. They were all cheap, and came with a fall back/lightening strike mentality. (Though keeping Barlett for even a day just seemed like a bad choice) No defense, just some perspective. But I am puzzled and frustrated when I read and re-read how any of these three signings blocked anyone. Who on earth did they block? Kubel didn't cause Parmelee to perform poorly enough that the Twins outright cut him. Did Bartlett slow anyone? Santana was never going to break with the club, and the team was unsure what they had with Escobar at the time. Should Tonkin have pitched just a little better, the G-Man probably never gets his shot. Now, maybe Tonkin should have stayed anyway, or someone else promoted, and not going to argue that one. But Guerrier wasn't on the roster initially, and wasn't blocking anyone. Again, just some perspective.

rolling!

WOW! Honestly, great article Nick! You have encapsulated many thoughts I myself have had, and even put down in posts just tonight. I really, really hate to repeat myself, but your comments here demand I do on some points. 1) 2011 was a bitter and unexpected surprise that rocked the organization. I give them a mulligan for 2011. The Twins won 95 games in 2010, won the Central, and returned most of the team intact for 2012 except for some pen arms. And one thing the Twins have proven over the years, they usually know how to build or re-build a bullpen. Decimating injuries gave them no shot in 2011. '12 and '13, I'm not sure any of us, or the Twins themselves knew what was going on. I don't know if they were clinging to hope of rebounds and retooling or what, but they were simply lost seasons unfortunately. 2) I believe the FO has made mistakes, but also made an honest effort to rebound here in 2014. We can argue all day about money not spent, moves not made, or not made yet. However, the Twins were very aggressive in pursuit of a veteran catcher and struck gold. They spent big money on Hughes and Nolasco, a move that I believe will still prove worthy, and even Pelfrey, which wasn't truly a bad idea based on experience and a proposed further year recovery for surgery. And still they went hard after Garza before losing out. Knowing they had some very good talent in the wings, but not ready yet, they took cheap flyers on guys like Bartlett, Kubel and Guerrier. All good guys with good track records, hoping some lighting might strike. They could have, and probably should have, worked and pushed harder for moves. You can say Bartlett walked away, but he would have been gone anyway, and I'm convinced the Twins helped him see the writing on the wall. Of course, he never should have been on the opening roster anyway. They stuck with Kubel, and looked smart for a month. They probably waited too long, but they gave him his papers. I doubt Guerrier would have been up at all if Tonkin wasn't struggling somewhat just as Guerier was reaching his milb deadline. Still, they should have stuck with Tonkin. The fact that they did make said cuts, as well as dumping Florimon, and promoting the young, exciting Santana over Bernier, traded for Nunez, gave Escobar a real opportunity and even gave Parmelee another shot indicates to me a move from the previous status quo. 3) I know the Twins receive a lot of flak for their seeming nepotism. And I am totally on board with bringing fresh blood and ideas in to the system. And I would like to see more. In fact, I applaud the coaching changes made last season. And while I generally believe the Twins have good quality baseball men on their staff, and I don't want to see anyone lose their job, I believe someone needs to be re-assigned elsewhere to bring on a quality Latin coach. I think this could pay HUGE dividends over the next few years. Cueller was a nice addition, but we need more. I don't know that I can say anything bad about bringing back a well respected baseball mind like Krivsky any more than I could say a bad thing about bringing Molitor back on board, providing some new blood also flows in. But I also can't just dismiss the Twins way of doing things when you see Twins and partial Twins dotting coaching staffs throughout baseball in ML and milb. Just think Molitor, Brunansky, Steinbach, Jake Mauer and Dougie M as a few examples within the organization. I agree with you 100% that the team and organization is moving forward. And I think we're starting to see this here in 2014. To me, there is less tolerance for the same old same. And I absolutely do not believe the team needs to be blown up. But I do believe in aggressive second half promotions and call ups. And again, I strongly believe in one major coaching decision by next year.

While not thrilled by the signing, or impressed by it, I got it. A very low risk and inexpensive veteran arm with a good track record who might help out. I admit to still being surprised when he was on the AAA roster. But, OK, a vet bullpen arm to round in to shape who might help if someone gets hurt. My surprise was his promotion. He came up for only one reason really. It just so happened Tonkin had a couple rough outings at the same time Guerrier was reaching his walk away point if not promoted. Had Tonkin received just a little longer leash, or just pitched a little better at the time, Guerrier never would have been up. He had a better career than I think anyone, possibly himself included, could have expected. And he was a good Twin the first time around. I wish him all the best. Pressly is really having a nice season, and seems to be rocking it lately. But I'm still a little surprised he's being promoted ahead of Tonkin and Achter at this point. Who said it might be a proving moment for the Twins to decide to keep him beyond this year? Interesting thought.

Great post! And I'm 100% in agreement. Think about 2011 for a moment. That season was an anomaly. The Twins were coming off a division championship and a 95 win season. They lost some quality arms from the pen, but the bulk of that 95 win team was back. And if there is one thing the Twins have proven they usually know how to do well it's build a bullpen. Absolutely no-one saw the mass injuries and collapse coming in 2011. Not even sure sometimes what 2012 and 2013 were. Misguided belief? More bad luck? Desperate clinging hope? I believe 2014 has brought about a real change in approach. The Twins have been quicker to pull the plug than we've ever seen before. And they spent real money on Nolasco, which will still pay off, and Hughes, and yes, even the Pelfrey signing to deepen the rotation and it's innings. They presumed Salty and AJ before getting one of the seasons best bargains in Suzuki. And despite their SP signings, they STILL made a strong effort to bring Garza back in to the fold. Knowing there was a great deal of young talent almost, but not yet, ready, the Twins made these moves and attempts. But they brought on Bartlett, Kubel and Guerrier hoping for some lightening to strike with at least one of them, if not more. Quality clubhouse guys and solid MLers who might have one season left. They eh also knew Willingham, KC, and Burton would probably be gone by trade or expiring contracts or trade. So again, a shot at a couple complimentary players to fill in. Moves are coming, no doubt. As a result, August should be fun and interesting. September more so.

And you could be right Nick. But I'm not really all that surprised. Consider some other moves the Twins have made this season. Bartlett "retired", but honestly, I think it's clear the Twins would have made a move if he didn't. And that thought is backed up by the Kubel move. Also by the Florimon move. (Though I still disagree with his temp fill in over Romero earlier). And the surprising and productive promotion of Santana over Bernier, a veteran who saw time last season and is having a very good AAA season. And even keeping Gibson straight out of ST vs sticking with Worley or Diamond "because". I dont agree with every move the team has made this season, but I think there has been a lot less of the scholarship/veteran/stand pat syndrome that we may have seen in the past.

Anything you guys? I'd really like to hear your thoughts on where we're sitting now, and what we think 2015 and on will bring here. I confess to being intrigued and excited about the future of our infield.

Jokin, you and I often share the same or similar viewpoints, but I'm going to disagree with you on this one. I am taking age completely out of the equation as there are simply WAY TOO MANY factors in timing and development to use age as part of the equation. Not saying you are ultimately right, or I am in thought and approach. I think "mastery" of a level is rather subjective. I think consistency of stuff and performance at a level would be a better cue than "mastery". As an example, we could argue that Kris Johnson has "mastered" the AAA level. And while he may yet find a role with the Twins, comparing his ability and potential to May and Meyer is ludicrous at best, even though many of his stats might show better. Forgetting Sanchez's potential, his numbers are only so-so to this point in the season. I dare say if the Twins promoted a young pitcher with his ERA and Whip there would be outrage. In my opinion, if you have a top starting pitching prospect, you let him start. Or at least as much as possible. (Considering I have advocated Meyer's promotion even if IP limits would dictate pen innings for his introduction) Now, if a team is in serious contention and really needs that extra arm, OK, I can see it. Otherwise, let a starter start.