DocBauer

The exact point I was trying to make. Despite the emergence of Santana, the development of Dozier and Plouffe, the exciting potential of Arcia and Vargas and the eventual arrival of Buxton and Sano, I thought it a good time to just step back and remember what kind of hitter we have in Mauer to help hold things together.

No, there is no concrete proof, or admission from Mauer or the Twins, that Mauer's struggles earlier this season were concussion related. Except, of course, he had a severe concussion issue last season that sidelined him and brought about the switch to 1B. And there is a history with Twins players not named Mauer, and other players in baseball, suffering from post concussion difficulties for a time before returning to previous form...or not returning at all. And, of course, there is speculation from Joe's own grandfather, Joe's best friend, and a few vague and/or veiled references without admission from Gardenhire himself as to Mauer's struggles earlier this season and last season's concussion. But of course, no proof of continuing post concussion symptoms that would appear to have abated themselves.

Mauer's contract is a moot point. Signed sealed and delivered. Move on. The point is healthy, which we didn't get to see a lot of this year, Mauer has proven to be an excellent offensive player with way above average hit and on-base skill, along with gapper extra base power and limited HR power. But since when is hitting HR's the only acceptable form of quality offensive production. Further, while still behind the plate, and not playing in a full 150 games, Mauer hit double digits in HR totals in '12 & '13. Therefore, a distinct possibility that simply playing in more games could result in additional HR totals.

Dozier's OB was actually much higher earlier than now. Other than needing an additional breather or two that he didn't receive, I think there are two things than have tainted an otherwise excellent season for him. First is that he's been bounced between hitting lead off to second to third. The approach is different in all three spots. Secondly, wherever he has hit, there's been question marks as to who is hitting behind him with any quality or consistency. Ideally, Santana, the "what the hell" kid would continue at least some semblance of the spark plug player he's shown this season and continue to thrill and excell at lead off whether playing CF, or SS, or both. Dozier could then be outstanding hitting behind him and in front of Mauer. If Hicks, Escobar, or someone else could emerge as a viable #2 hitter in the lineup, then I'd love to see Dozier provide power and speed in the heart of the lineup in the 5 or 6 spot.

Aren't we all looking forward now to 2015 while enjoying Santana, Arcia, Vargas, Dozier, Escobar, Hughes and Gibson amongst others, awaiting September promotions to give us more enjoyment, daydreaming and hope? But here's a funny thing; Mauer began to be Mauer before his oblique injury. And since coming back, Mauer has been performing like Mauer yet again. What does this mean? It means Mauer, extremely talented, a multiple batting champ, a multiple all-star, an experienced professional on a rebuilding team, and one of the Twins best and most important players is overcoming his concussion symptoms, and begining to look like his old self. There was a lot of hope before 2014 began that Mauer's transition to 1B would allow him to stay more healthy, removed from the rigors of catching, and be in the lineup on a more consistent basis. Playing a 140-150 games, without the burden of catching, would see a rise in overall production. If for no other reason than more AB's and stronger body as the grind of the season wore on. Some even predicted, though I think wrongly so, of a huge HR surge. But regardless, just being healthy and available for more games should make a difference. But a funny thing happened on the way to the coliseum, Mauer still wasn't recovered from his concussion. And typical of the rash of injuries the Twins have suffered this season at all levels, just as Mauer was getting his groove back, he got hurt. Let's put all of that aside and just focus on a healthy, no concussion Mauer for 2015 and look at some viable numbers. First, Mauer's career slash numbers....just in case anyone has forgotten or lost touch. .320 Avg/ .401 OB/ 462 SLG/ .863 OPS Do yourself and read those numbers again. Now based on games played over his career, NOT INCLUDING this season, (it's not over yet and there was the concussion syndrome), but also, NOT INCLUDING his MVP season, but including all other seasons, healthy or not, for consideration: Over a 150 game season, (playing 1B now with a few games at DH), he would/should maintain his career norms for Avg and OB%, etc! but he would also project to 36+ doubles and just shy of 11 HR's. Now, this is based on his career numbers as a catcher, and without his MVP year as previously stated. The point being an objective observation would see him continuing as a tremendous hitter, with great OB numbers, and a lot of doubles with somewhat limited HR power, not that HR's are the be all and end all. But also consider this, remembering we have eliminated Mauer's MVP season for this discussion, he has 3 times hit 10 or more HR's in a season, and 2 of them were the past two seasons. Is it reasonable to assume that a fully healthy and recovered Mauer in 2015, with 150 games played, no longer behind the plate, could/should see at least a slight rise in his per game HR ratio? Maybe up to the 15-ish area with his doubles and his normal hit/OB% area? Something to chew on.

To the actual topic of the thread...yes...I think we can recognize good baseball. For two reasons. 1) most of us are intelligent and experienced enough as baseball fans to remember when competitive, quality baseball was like in Minnesota. I mean, come on, it seems like an eternity but it's really only been 4 years. Hello Cubs fans! Hello Astro fans! 2) having seen 3 previous seasons of bad and losing baseball helps qualify what better baseball looks like. Which brings us to this year. Forget the record for a moment. And really, if you want honest perspective, you have to. The last couple of years, despite being a die-hard, lifelong Twins fan, I would turn on the radio or catch a game, see that we were behind 5+ runs in the 3rd or 4th inning and just turn the game off. This year is not the same. It starts with Hughes and Gibson and Nolasco. I don't care that it's been a disappointing season for Nolasco. He's going to turn out to be a great addition yet. And from there we go to Plouffe, Escobar, Dozier, Santana, Vargas, the late push from Arcia and many other points. Almost any game, any series, this team...for the first time in 3 years...actually plays competitive ball and is the game and series. They make me want to listen, watch, wait and hope like they haven't in a few seasons. The 2 months lost to Meyer last season affects 2015 to at least some degree. The full season lost for Sano, and almost full season lost to Buxton has defiantly affected the time frame of the Twins. No way you're top 3 prospects having lost time or seasons can't affect your rebuild. But there's been a lot to like this season. And for the first time in a while, I'm actually enjoying Twins baseball in August, and looking forward to September.

To be fair, this thread is indeed what you would do as GM to address LF next season. As also stated, it is easily the one position on the team, and in the lineup, where one addition might/could actually make a difference. It was never stated the Twins would be forced to overspend on a 4-6 year contract. I don't oppose prospects for a young and talented LF option. Though I highly doubt the Twins are in the frame of mind to trade prospects, at this time, this impending year, to do so. And I concure. I'd hoard my young talent for at least one more season while rebuilding the club. I like the idea of signing Melky. I also like Markakis if available. The FA market is not yet established, to be sure. There could be 1 year options to hang on for one more good year, or a make good year. And there can be a 30yo where a 3 year deal makes very much sense. I believe the Twins can/should/probably will make at least this one FA move. Here's a monkey wrench to throw in to the mix. There is a nice article concerning Hicks, on another site, and what he has done this season after his demotion. Still young and very talented, he has absolutely raked at AA. He has continued to rake at AAA since his promotion there, with a week or so to go. I don't think there's much doubt that he's going to see additional additional ML time with a September promotion. What happens if he, forgetting raking, but hits and plays well with the Twins to finish the season? I know his milb time is a small sample size, but so too is his ML sample size. But if he continues, does it skew the LF options for next year? Is Santana a LF option? Or is he truly destined to compete with Escobar at SS? Again, a monkey wrench to toss in.

A thought to share and debate. In this particular thread, and others over the past month or so, I've read several comments regarding the Twins "promotion philosophy", if one truly exists. There has been a sentiment that the Twins are more aggresive in promoting position players vs pitchers. And it think it's worth looking at. Now, to be fair, I'm discounting the early 80's when the team seemed to virtually promote an entire team from the A and AA ranks. Again, to be fair, I'm not taking the time to research year after year after year. I know the Twins did promote both Radke and Erickson from AA in the 90's. I believe Milton was also, my memory can't recall if he saw any AAA time right now. I would argue that May, factoring in time missed due to injury, has actually been promoted quickly after what equates to about a half season of AAA experience. I could add Thielbar and Tonkin as well, one of which has stuck, one of which hasn't as of yet, after limited AAA experience. In other words, I'm not really sure the Twins are truly that conservative with promoting pitching prospects, just maybe, more conservative than anxious fans want them to be. While not ML promotions, one could argue that promotions of top prospects such as Berrios, Thorpe and even Duffy would indicate just the opposite of a conservative approach. Hu, Gonsalves and even Stewart might be mentioned as well considering their ages. For position players, Hicks, Arcia, Pinto, Santana and Vargas are examples of quick promotions the past couple of years. You could include Revere a couple years ago as another example. I'm not sure there truly is an organizational difference in treatment of pitchers vs position players in regard to promotion. Perhaps more thorough research could settle this idea. Any volunteers? LOL But let's assume, for a moment, that the perception shared by some is accurate and would prove to be true with additional research. The question then becomes why? Is there a fear of failure for pitchers? Do they feel position players, used to bad days and bad stretches, but allowed to play every day and rebound, finding success in this manor is different and easier to coach and work with than a pitcher who throws only every 5th day, or intermittently from the bullpen? Again, I'm not convinced there is some double standard. But it might be worth discussing.

A few thoughts based on all the various viewpoints shared. Personally, and I feel this season has proved it, in the case of Gibson, I think the Twins handled his situation appropriately. (Ever situation is unique unto itself) He showed real flashes, and some real inconsistency. When he seemed to reach a level of greater consistency, they brought him up. Did he struggle? Absolutely. Did he learn? I'd have to say he did. Whether he was tired and reaching the end of the line last season, or trying too hard, or working on confidence, or other factors, he did pitch, gained ML experience, and I think that experience helped him get ready for 2014. I think people need to quit bellyaching about May coming up in June. No matter what he was doing, it was his very first AAA experience. And while no-one from the Twins has ever come out and said it, there seemed to be a perfect set of circumstances that had May pitching well, pitching consistent, approaching mid-season with the Futures Game up in the Twin Cities where he would have thrown, and I believe probably stayed. If that scenario had played out, nobody would be complaining about June. The fact is he got hurt, he missed time, got his legs back under him, and is here now. His first start stunk. While not appreciably better, his second start was still better, and he did strike several batters out. I think he's here to stay now. He'll take his lumps, but be allowed to pitch and grow and learn. I think it's valuable experience that will help him build for next season. I don't think the Twins have mishandled May at all. I'm of mixed opinion on Meyer. Are the Twins being too cautious with him? Perhaps. Given the choice of erring either way, I'd go for the side of caution rather than being rash. That doesn't mean he shouldn't come up and gain similar ML experience, even if poor, mixed, or good in results. And perhaps he still will. Just saying I can appreciate the kid-glove approach to a top prospect trying to develop and watch not only his pitch/innings count, but also attempting to measure his sauces quotient. It you want to call that consistency, so be it. I'm reminded of Gardenhire's comment last season regarding Gibson, when he stated they wanted him to be ready so that when promoted, he'd be promoted up to stay. And as it turns out, that is exactly what happened. I do agree that the Rochester staff, and the various milb scouts and assistants see more and know more than we do. I also agree in reaching a point of no return where you need to learn and develop, even with iffy results, at the ML level. But there can also be negatives involved with getting shelled. Is it possible the Twins are simply being cautious, or overly cautious, in regard to Meyer, simply to protect him from getting randomly shelled due to some of the inconsistent, high pitch count innings he's shown at times this year?

This! I understand saliva inducing expectation and hope for the Twins top pitching prospect to arrive, but come on now. Ryan trades a quality, viable ML talent for a top rotation arm because he doesn't like him, doesn't believe in him, and has a secret desire to crush his spirit and development. And obviously, Meyer being hurt and missing two months last season, along with bouts of wildness this season at times, provides the perfect cover for the evil mustachioed-twisting Ryan to continue on his dastardly dead of tormenting our tortured hero. We can all pretend to be experts and know what is best to do here, debate, and agree to agree or disagree with the Twins and ourselves. Personally, I want him up, even on a limited basis, just for a taste of ML life and experience out there on the mound. But you'd think there was some conspiracy involved here. And cancer scare and treatment or not, I think you'd find Ryan visiting each team only once on the season, twice on occasion, is pretty much on par not only for the Twins, but just every other GM in the game. Their job is to run the ML team and supervise the men "beneath" them that are trained, experienced and hired to scout and manage the minors.

But wait, I thought we only kept, played and promoted ML castoffs and AAAA fodder? But seriously, this list goes a long way to show that the Twins are indeed moving forward. But it takes time. You can't simply say: "this young man is talented...PROMOTE HIM." There's just way more to it than that. There was a comment recently that the Twins rebuilding efforts really began with the trades for May and Meyer. And I think there is real merit to that thought. To me, stage two encompassed the Nolasco and Hughes signings, the keeping of Gibson, despite having options available, and the jettisoning of Worley and Diamond. That one move told me the Twins weren't going to just stand pat.

I think it's pretty obvious that LF is the one spot where we can make a nice to big impact for 2015's lineup with no blocking of imminent young talent. The Twins can make a fair to major trade for said player, but doubt this is the time to want to part with upcoming young talent. The other option, and the on I expect, is the FA route. Could be someone with a year or two left, or someone younger, with a larger expense involved in regard to dollars and terms. I originally felt said signee should definitely be a RH hitter to replace Willingham, who basically replaced Cuddyer. But with unexpected power from Dozier, potential power from Vargas when he hits RH, Pinto as well, and some from Plouffe until the RH Sano is ready, I'm not sure we need to be restricted to RHers alone. Markakis has been mentioned lately in threads, (Thrylos or Leviathan?), and I've been mulling this as an option. I believe there is an option tied to him for 2015, but I don't know if it is player or team controlled. He's only 30, and sports a career slash line of .301/ .380/ .411/ .770 coming in to this season. He's averaged 36 doubles and 16 homers per year to go along with an average of 76 RBI. Twice he has exceeded 100 RBI, once hit 87. Could he be an ideal option to fill this hole if available?

Not sure how many recall this, but when Revere was with us, he proved to be a solid bunted and had it as part of his normal game plan. And I remember a few snarky comments from the opposition about bunting for hits. And I've heard similar reactions a time or two over the past few years in regard to other players and teams. The bunt can be a very effective weapon, and not just as a sacrifice or bunt hit. But it can also mess with the opposition's pitcher and defense. Play back, I'll surprise you at times. Play up, I'll slap something over your head or past you down the line. Between Carew on a part-time basis and Molitor on a full-time basis, we have a couple excellent resources to draw from. And there are a number of players on the Twins now, and coming up, where bunting well could be a nice weapon, and should be stressed. Further, the game is transitioning away from the big HR era to more situational hitting, more of the speed and defense with power mixed in game baseball used to be about. I'd rather be ahead of the curve instead of following it, or worse, being behind it.

I'm also firmly on board with keeping both. And not simply because one good season from Escobar isn't enough to gain a quality return in trade. Let's all be honest and admit that what Escobar has done this year, offensively and defensively, is far above anything we've had for years now. If we could have been assured before the season began that he would do exactly what he's done, we'd of been ecstatic! And not just this year, but every year going back to what, Guzman leaving? Further, there is no guarantee he will regress, or how far. He may even improve. This is his first real shot at playing every day, and he's only 25. His "utility" label thus far is mostly earned by being promoted early, too early, at only 21, and used as a utility player by the Sox before coming to the Twins. Pure talent and explosiveness, Santana is the better potential player. And I have no problem with his continuing to play some SS and "auditioning" to a degree for 2015 and beyond. May the best man win. And may the other provide great utility play, or in Santana's case, possibly a role in the OF. Depth, options and roster potential is a very good thing to have, and something the Twins need more of, not less. Great point on Vielma from SD, though he's a ways away, just as Gordon is. I think it's WAY to early to corner Polanco as a 2B only. The overall talent and athleticism is there. Errors come with young players, especially infielders, being groomed and developed. Michael I'm not so sure yet. He seems to have finally begun to find himself offensively. Better late than never. He's going to have continue the development he's shown this season in 2015. If he does, he might be a solid option somewhere, but I think we're a season away from knowing for sure. Again, there is talent, and there are skills there, that made him worthy of a 1st round pick initially.

I believe there is absolutely room for Pinto, and his bat, on the club now and in the future. I believe his role is that of backup C, (at least-pending), RHPH and sometimes DH as well. Firstly, 2015 in particular is still fluid. I'm a big believer in Vargas and love his potential. Hopefully, his potential is NOW. But despite an impressive start, what if he's not ready yet for 2015 after pitchers make adjustments. Second, every spot on a 25 man roster has the potential to help and be important. And bench roles usually revolve around two types. Catcher or not, some backups are excellent defensive players who fill in but aren't very good offensive players/hitters. The second type are offensive performers who can also fill in, but aren't necessarily very good defensive players. Neither type is right or wrong, just different. And neither hurts the team as long as not overly exposed. Pinto wasn't special, but wasn't bad, defensively in the minors, and didn't seem too bad to close out 2013. So with a little improvement, why not him as the backup catcher? There is no rule that says your backup C has to be a Butera type. Thirdly, there can be injuries and regression. Both can lead to increased opportunity, though we don't wish for either one of them.

May needs to pitch. Period. My gut feeling? He's learned what he needs to learn, has worked on what he needs to work on, and now just needs to pitch at the ML level the rest of the season. Much like Gibson last season, who the Twins ran out consistently despite mixed to bad results, he needs the experience to adapt and learn, fit in, gain experience, and even get pissed a few times. It's ML time for May. Damn the torpedoes and the results...for the most part.

This. Very nice post Goulik! We are preparing to have the very best SP rotation we've had in years! And there are legit prospects who could/can/should be ready to contribute a month in, mid-season, late-season. The pen bothers me slightly. I want to give kids the opportunity, and we have several, and I don't want to hold them down. But don't we want to win too? We sign ONE quality RH setup man, Crain-ish, and I really like the depth and potential of the pen next season. Further, that one, quality, power hitting, RBI OF and the offense starts to take real shape and potential. (I'm torn on Span or similar CF with Santana playing SS vs keeping Santana there for now until Buxton arrives. In regard to Meyer, it's not that pitching in AAA is somehow easier or saving his arm per se, it's simply about allowing him to work on his motion and control at a level with less pressure involved while controlling his IP, but also trying to increase them per norms. It's really not any different than a A or AA pitcher with great potential. Why not just go straight to the ML's to work? Because they're not ready yet. Why tempt them to overthrow or risk confidence by getting shelled? It's all about stages and reaching some arbitrary but hard to define level of consistency. That being said, he's talented enough, and has thrown well "enough" that I'm still highly in favor of some starting/pen work to finish the season for ML experience.

Not going to copy and paste everything Seth said since I think everyone has pretty much read it at least twice by now. And I agree with him whole-heartedly. I think Joe's "reputation" with certain fans has little to do, overall, with his contract, which a different subject entirely, water under the bridge, and ultimately unimportant vs scoreboard. Any problem with perception of Mauer comes down to two things in my mind. 1) 2011. The Twins were supposed to be a top team and contender. The season became an absolute wreck. Missing one of your best, if not the best, and one of your top players while the disaster is taking place for mysterious reasons never explained or understood made fans very disappointed and frustrated. I still don't know who to blame on this one, but I'd say the Twins on this one. 2) Unreal expectations. Mauer has always had a mystique of the national athlete who could been a QB on a top, possibly national championship college football team, who was instead the top pick and top prospect of the local ML baseball team. And with all his talent, and big athletic frame, to some, no measure of defense, all star votes and batting titles will ever make up for not being Johnny Bench and Hank Aaron rolled in to one. Especially as the team has struggled the past couple of seasons. BTW, Mauer's concussion was not his fault. And he WAS hitting like Mauer before his last injury, and has continued to hit like Mauer since his return.

I believe speed and defense have been undervalued for the last decade or so. Probably a result of PED's and the HR ball. Baseball is clearly shifting back to better pitching results and less overall scoring and lower power numbers. I think this is a positive thing as it brings back more nuances to the game in the form of situational hitting and running, bunts, sacrifices, stolen bases and the such. What has been referred to as the NL way of playing the game. I think that's a gross misnomer as teams like the Twins in the past, the A's, the Royals, and several teams in the AL, in the past, have enjoyed playing that form of baseball.

One final thought...IF the Twins are indeed guilty of trying too hard to teach hitters to hit the opposite way, stubbornly, is that perhaps a reflection of years spent playing on the turf in the dome? And apologies for my last post running together. About half my posts do that for reasons beyond my control.

I'd like to state that I believe in playing to a player's strengths. I also maintain there are very different hitters. Mauer's stroke is built to spray line drives all over the field with gapper and some HR power. Get over him being a 30 HR hitter, he just isn't. Dozier, small than Mauer, has a stroke, and has made certain adjustments assuredly, that allow him more lift on his balls for HR power. In the Twins past, Gary Gaetti was much smaller than Kent Hrbek, but while Hrbek usually produced a higher BA, Gaetti usually had more pure power. HOF 3B Wade Boggs was a very similar hitter to Mauer, as another comparison/example. The one year Boston put him at 3rd in the BO he produced much higher power numbers than normal, but all of his other perifferals took a fall. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't the problem with a still very young Ortiz that he was injured a great deal? He showed potential and power but had a hard time being in the lineup daily. The Twins had to make a decision, felt the decision was best not to outbid, and let him go. Suddenly he seemed to get more healthy and productive. There is nothing wrong with hitting the other way. But it's also a skill that can be worked on and learned, and not necessarily a strength of a strapping young power hitter. I know the Twins, over the years, have talked about teaching guys to hit the other way. And I know a COUPLE former players have blasted the Twins for this. Once again, please correct me if wrong, but have we ever actually ever heard the Twins, for lack of a better term, DEMAND hitters observe this approach or they can't play? Or were they simply trying to make certain guys a better hitter overall? I guess it sounds obvious, but to me the most obvious approach is to play to a hitter's strength, even if he is a pull hitter. Next, you want to teach them to simply not try to pull every damn pitch they see. Just have a little control and discipline. Third, NOW you begin to get them to shorten strokes and make contact, and go the other way when pitched consistently outside. Overly simplistic? Yes. Absolutely. But isn't this the approach that makes the most sense? If all you do is pull the ball, not only could you strike out at high rates, but defensive shifts and ML pitchers hitting the outside corners consistently will result in weak ground ball after ground ball.

Is it possible Arcia's comments were a bit off the cuff, filled with some truth, and it's being blown waaaaay out of proportion?

Stringer, you and I are on the same wavelength here. This article's subject matter has been on my mind for weeks now, and have touched on it here and there. My thoughts, initially, were to sign a power/RBI bat for LF, which still needs to be done, and a stop-gap CF who could make a nice #4 OF if Hicks suddenly came on. I also thought a AAAA type would be a smart pickup for depth and insurance. Perhaps that can be Schafer? But as time has moved on, and Santana and the freed Escobar have done so well in their current roles, my thinking changed to just keeping things the status quo for 2015, with Hicks still in the wings, Rosario eventually, and Buxton the long term answer who hopefully won't be long term in fulfilling his promise and role. The AAAA insurance player, ex; Schafer, could still apply. Now, I'd still like Santana to work at and play some at SS so that when Buxton arrives, there is still the option of Santana playing SS if not LF where he could be a fine top of the order presence and one assumes at least a decent if not eventually quality LF. Recently, my thoughts have been swaying to the idea of moving Santana back to SS, where if his defense could be at least comparable to Escobar, the entire lineup suddenly shows even greater all around depth of talent for 2015 and beyond.

Kind of my point I guess

If there was ever a player that just seemed a fit for a team..............