DocBauer

It's the big picture that is most important. He had reasonable success at this level last year, but nothing truly dominate. If you follow milb promotions in the Twins system, you will see they've been more aggressive recently. But this is a kid, major arm and potential, that is still young not only for his level, but young for committing himself only to baseball. He needed a repeat, at least initially, for this level. The early results are very encouraging.

I think Fien was fine, as a steal, once upon a time. And I can't completly fault the Twins for taking a roll of the die one more time for depth and hope of a rebound. But results do matter, and sooner or later, there will come a time in which they have to make a move. And that time should be coming soon. And while I'm encouraged by what Graham is doing at Rochester, I don't know that he's as sweet of an option right now as Chargois. I think the time is coming very soon to buy a ticket on the Shaggy train and just bite the bullet.

I wonder, would "Shaggy" dare choose the Scooby-Doo theme song as his walk in music? Would be priceless!

The simple truth is, not every quality/prospect succeeds. And for whatever reason Hicks has struggled, with the exception of a month or so, at the ML level. Where or if there is blame may be irrelevant at this point. Tough to hate this trade no matter the early returns. The problem is not the trade itself, it's what the Twins are doing with it. I get that the primary responsibility of a catcher is calling a game, working with the pitchers, making them comfortable, and being a solid target. And Suzuki seems solid at this, always has been, and has the respect of his manager and his pitchers. He always has. And I get that Murphy is the "new kid in town". But sooner or later, HE HAS TO PLAY. I've heard nothing negative from the Twins, or the broadcasters, in regards to his receiving skills. In fact, I've heard he has very soft hands. I love that Turner has been held back in AA for now, I think he needed it. And I dont think Garver should be discounted after a slower '15. I still like this pair as future back stops for the Twins, but wanting and wishing is not the same as being ready. And they are each probably a good year away. And someone will have to be acquired to play with Murphy for 2017. But for this season, "champion" Murphy needs to be playing. Molitor and the staff need to start trusting him sooner rather than later.

I hear ya. I really do. And I have maintained that something happened to Perk just before, or at all star last season that we still don't know about. But I can't ignore his first half last season. While Perk remains a huge question mark at the moment, Im not sure we can write him off this soon. And while his milb IP are short, I agree on Chargois. Despite his limited experience, I think he is on the fast track based on stuff and attitude. It's still early, but seems to have the proverbial "it" factor. And more and more, it looks like Fien has the "used to" factor.

I can't disagree with your sentiment. But here is what I would counter with: Ryan is, perhaps, a bit slow to adapt and change. But in his first go round as GM, and some not so great moves, he adapted and learned. In his second tour of duty, he became more aggressive in his deals, such as the May and Meyer deals. Now, we haven't won these deals yet, but the potential is still there and the jury is still out. Right or wrong, he's also waded far deeper in to the FA pool than we have ever seen the Twins tread before. He's long been staunch in holding on to prospects, right or wrong. As these prospects continue to develop and emerge, and begin to knock on the door more harder and harder, push meets shove and he will be forced to make moves. Yes?

Nolasco is nothing special, but he had a solid ST for the Twins. And while his second start wasn't as good as his first, it was still OK. A solid career NL before joining the Twins, and with only one more year beyond this on his deal, I still believe a healthy Nolasco could provide depth and insurance for another club, especially an NL club, at some point this season. His remaining deal is not long or overly expensive, and if he can continue to pitch with some consistency, I have to believe he'd be enticing to a playoff hopeful team needing help or depth. Santana has an ever better career track record. But no matter how well he pitches for our Twins, his very fair contract for a solid veteran SP, may preclude him being a hot property. (More or less the same for Hughes) But Milone? Like Nolasco, I could see him as a real value for a challenging team needing depth, or a healthy body to replace someone. The whole point being, even if we turn this early season mess around and start winning, aren't we still better off moving these guys to make room for Berrios/Duffey/Meyer, even if it may cause a couple speed bumps in the road toward a wining record? And couldn't a couple of these guys posses actual tradable value?

With all the angst and type spent on the bullpen, and our general views of its construction and it's failures at times, performance and said construction, it might be time to throw a little love Pressly's way. Look, all things considered, a healthy Perkins, close to his old self for a year or two more, really helps this bullpen. The frustrated jury is still out on this matter. Hopefully, we will still get a positive verdict. I don't know if we still know what we have in Jepsen, and we should have traded for a second quality arm last year when we got him, but he was outstanding for us last year. After a couple bad outings this year, regression boo birds were already chirping. However, he's looked better lately. Again, like a lot of the pen in the early going, May hasn't shown very brightly. And should still be in the rotation, IMO, but he has the stuff and potential to be very good in the pen. And he showed last season, and during ST, what he can look like as a RP. But while we gnash teeth over failures, and failure to act, and wait for other top RP prospects to arrive, we may have found a really nice arm in Pressly. And with Perkins out of action for now, everyone moves up a notch, and Pressly could be very important going forward. While he was sheltered in 2013, he still finished 3-3 with a 3.87 ERA, 71 hits in 76.2 IP, just shy of a 2-1 SO/BB ratio, .251 BA against and 1.28 WHIP. Not bad first time around. Welcome to your first taste of The League. His opportunities in 2014 were limited and not as successful: 28.1 IP, 30 hits, just shy again of a 2-1 ratio, .278 BA against and a 1.34 WHIP. Bef ore his injury derailed his 2015, he was showing some life again. 27 hits in 27.2 IP, his customary just shy of 2-1 SO/BB ratio with 22/12, a .251 BA and rather mediocre 1.41 WHIP. In SSS thus far, he's looking good in 2016. As I write, Im uncertain if I have the most up to the moment stats, but I believe we are looking at a win, no runs, 6 hits in 8.2 IP, 6 SO to 3 BB, a .188 BA against and 1.04 WHIP. Has time and opportunity given us another, maybe somewhat unexpected, quality option in the bullpen?

I don't know that Nunez has, or deserves a fan club, so to speak, but I also like him. As I've often stated, if a guy could field well and hit well consistently, he'd be a starter. Not everyone can do that, that's why they are bench players. There are those who didn't like Punto because he could field but not hit consistently. Just the opposite with Nunez, for some, as he hits pretty well for a utility infielder type, with a little speed and pop, but he's only average with the glove. As long as you have a 12 man staff, (not my preference), you have a 4 man bench. One of those guys has to be a catcher. That's 3 spots left. You figure a 4th OF of various ability, and a utility infielder. That leaves 1 spot left. Your choices then are a bat, probably exclusively, or another versatile role player. I'm OK with Nunez as the latter, especially in the AL when you face fewer PH options with the DH.

I was very happy to see the decision to keep Meyer in the rotation. Could he still ultimately end up in the pen? Sure. And he could do great things like other power arms before him. But that is way too big of an arm, way too much potential to move him after one down year. It would be an awesome problem to have if Duffey would get back on track, and by mid season we would have a log jam of he, Berrios and Meyer pounding on promotion's door, threatening to kick it in.

I know contracts can cause issues. I get that. And it could definitely play a part. But really, come mid season, you don't think there could be teams legitimately in need of an experienced ML catcher, or 3B or SP due to weakness or injury that wouldn't be interested in Suzuki or Plouffe? Or a team needing a SP wouldn't be interested in Santana, and possibly Nolasco or Hughes? (Nolasco on a proposed rebound and only 1 year left. Hughes is younger but long termed and that could be rough)

FWIW, Nick, I think it's a nice thread and an accurate one. Face it, no matter anyone's expectations coming in to the season, nobody expected this start. And let's be frank, it sucks. And blame can be cast wherever you like, and it's anyone's and everyone's right to do so, but the reality is that except for 3 players, the entire team is in the dumpster offensively to begin the season. It's a combined and cumulative effort that could not have been forseen, based on talent, experience and potential, as well as past results and even spring training, but it is what it is. Hopefully, what it is will turn around and soon! And yes, we can blast the FO for 3 years of no backup CF plan, and 2 years of waiting on the bullpen. (Things that have, pretty much, been admitted to). But simply looking beyond initial disappointment at the moment, and the emotions that accompany yet, perspective must be kept. I watched the Twins mostly struggle in the 70s with penny pinching, the promotion and subsequent eventual loss of quality players that made it. In the early 80's the Twins were very aggressive in the promotion of many young talents...perhaps too aggressive in some cases...and suffered through some aweful baseball. That was a complete and sudden rebuild. And while it ultimately paid dividends for years to come, it wasn't pretty at first. While I can, I think fairly, blast the Twins for some moves they've made, and haven't made, I can respect the idea of not capitulating to such a drastic "give in" to a sudden, complete and drastic rebuild. Right or wrong, I respect the notion at least. For every Mauer and Knoblauch that comes up and just seemingly clicks from day one, history has shown us many great young players who needed that step back to make mental and physical adjustments before finding themselves. It's not an insult to baseball, or us as fans, nor necessarily a "sky is falling" scenario, when this happens. It's simply a reality of young men learning to play a complex and difficult game at the very highest level.

Not even going to dignify this thread with a response. Oh crap!!

Seriously, aren't we just better off bringing Mastro up for a while if the intent is to send Buxton down? He appears healthy, had a great spring, and us a natural CF so you don't have to do an entire OF shuffle. Or cut Arcia.

Hip....hip............................... (yawn)

I was thinking about this the other day when posting, and thought about it again this evening while posting and watching the game. I think it bears discussing considering the situation the Twins find themselves in 2016. This is NOT another doom and gloom thread or opinion. It is NOT a "whoa is us as fans" thread. It is NOT a fire somebody thread. It is a pertinent discussion of the Twins in 2016 regardless of the disappointing 0-7 start, (as of this writing). It would be the same discussion if we were 7-0, or 4-3 or 3-4. A few years back, we started 2-9 before having a playoff season, and nearly made the playoffs last season after a similar poor start. I know it's very early still...but...winning or losing, should the Twins look at themselves as sellers this season? Now stay with me for a minute. It's probably safe to say the Twins competed a year earlier in 2015 than just about anyone expected. Most seem to have predicted 2016 and 2017 would be the years in which the Twins would be assembling an interesting, fun and competitive team. Obviously, if the season goes in the tank, you have to think being a seller would be automatic. But what if this team begins to play to its potential? What if the Twins are .500 or above and have a shot at not only a winning season, but maybe a wild card spot? With a hopeful and I'd say probable return for Duffey, a promotion for Berrios, Kepler and Polanco continuing to develop and shine, at least a couple of the young fireball ingredients RP looking ready...for the long term success of the team...do you STILL become sellers? There would have to be teams out there looking for a push that could maybe use Nolasco, Hughes, Santana, (maybe Gibson), Plouffe, (maybe Escobar even), Perkins if healthy and maybe Suzuki and Jepsen. If these young and talented players look ready, should and could the Twins possibly be sellers, possibly sacrificing the rest of the season, (maybe not), in order for an even better tomorrow?

I know they are just young prospects, which means they are, in reality, suspects at this point...BUT...even if it's early, the SP have been solid or better in virtually every milb start this young season. I think it's safe to say that all but the most despondent of fans would agree the Twins rotation is solid. It doesn't stink. These guys can win. But I also think it's safe to say we can't wait for Duffey to come back, for Berrios to make his mark, for Gonsalves to be the best LHSU we've had in years, for Stewart to become the pitcher everyone believes/believed he could be, for Thorpe to be healthy and strong and back on the fast track, and for all of these other young, various A ball SP to move up the ladder. For a moment, forgetting the early struggles of our beloved parent club, realize that when those previously mentioned things happen, there will be the likes of Buxton, Sano, Kepler, Rosario, Dozier, Escobar, Polanco, Gordon and maybe a few others supporting and backing them up. We probably contended earlier than expected in 2015, which makes the poor start this year hard to handle. But the future really does look very bright.

I think this is pretty much spot on. Really, how we feel now after 7 games is pretty much how we felt after 7 games last season. In fact, I believe we are only 1 game "worse" through 7 games at this point. Despite faults, on paper at least, this is or should be a better club overall. And despite the mounting frustration, we are playing better, in closer games, that at this time last year. While disappointment abounds, I am a bit surprised at Park. I know he's making a big adjustment, but like a lot of our struggling hitters at the moment, I just thought I saw a better approach during ST than what we are seeing now. Does this mean sending him down? I don't know. It may be too early for something like that. Maybe a couple days, or a series, where Arcia actually gets to play and he sits? If Kepler is going to be up, to echo other sentiments, then he needs to play and not sit on the bench. He may succeed or fail, but either way, he'Lloyd take something away with him when he does go down. (Unless he's this year'so version of Rosario and sticks) Maybe Sano should DH a few days, and just concentrate on hitting, finding a groove, and not play the field. This could co-incide with Park sitting. Despite early struggles, Dozier has produced in the #1 spot and likes it. I think I'd probably keep him there for now. I'd put Escobar...someone actually playing well...in the 2 spot and bat Mauer third. Is that Mauer's ideal spot these days? I don't know, but like Escobar, he's actually been hitting. And I'd put the veteran Plouffe at cleanup for now, bumping Sano down a spot. Kepler 6th? The bullpen...I really don't know what to say. What I think should have happened it's too late to do now. But not to pile on further, something is definitely missing in regard to Fien. I just don't know, this early on, who you would even replace him with.

I like your theory in general terms, Seth, but as you said, it will take time to work out the measureable and equate what is a good numer, what is bad. In a sense, where is the break point in all of this. And there many be more than one break point. For instance, while there is more to a player's measured worth than simply their BA, the fact is .250 is a break point. .250 or higher is good, universally speaking, and above is better with .300 being elite. Conversely, below .250 is obviously not so good, while .200 has always been the "inept" mark, for lack of a better term. Considering the somewhat volatile nature of the life of a RP, and in your examples given, even allowing runs doesn't necessarily mean a reliever failed, I almost wonder if a 50% "success" rate might not end up being the average?

My question is this; have the Twins over valued the abilities of Harrison? By age, he would seem to have been promoted with earnest. By production, he would seem to have been promoted too fast. He's already been moved off 3B pretty quickly. Are we looking at Moses 2? Vavra, healthy for a full season, could be interesting. But I would think Wade and Murphy would be far more interesting subjects to watch/consider. Not so sure...just a hunch...Christensen wouldn't be a comparable comp to Vavra. Of this group listed, Gordon is clearly the winner. Despite his pedigree, I wasn't sold on him as a top draft pick. Simply, every scouting report had him as a 50-55 in all categories. I just didn't see those reports as meeting expectations for a top pick. But he has not only looked good, but would seem to be exceeding those early projection numbers.

Can I just make a few comments about Ryan, in regard to this post and it's initial intent? I think TR has done a he'll of a lot in his career for our favorite team. I think he is a tremendous baseball man. After a few bumps in the road early in his career, this professional scout really found his niche and put together some great Twins teams that were competitve, went on wining runs, and competed as wellong as any team in baseball...overall. Especially considering some of his initial constraints. In the world of sport, we all yearn for our team to be the champion. It is, after all, the ultimate achievement that every team strives for, and every fan roots and hopes for. But I truly believe it is misguided, as well as short sighted, to ultimately find failure in not winning the ultimate prize. It still remains true, IMO, that the contest, the competition to be the best in which we see greatness. No matter the sport, or the level of such, only ONE TEAM ever comes out on top. As an analogy, I find it absurd to say that great QB in NFL history like Tarkenton, Marino and Fouts, to name a few, are lesser QB or lesser HOF players because they didn't win a Super Bowl. So while TR has yet to win a WS, I think to call him a poor GM because his best teams failed to win a WS is a mistake. That being said, and despite being a long admirer and defender of his work, I think this is a make or break year for him, and the Twins organization. There is a great Blog piece on TD by D-Mac that I think everyone should read. Despite my support for TR and his body of work, and respect for such, we are absolutely at a crossroads. I have liked many of his moves since he assumed the GM post again. And while all of his moves have not paid off...at least not yet...he has been much bolder in his actions. Do I think, at this point, he should be "urged to step down"? No. But his moves, and lack thereof, the past 2-3 years in regard to the CF and bullpen simply can't be ignored. He has gambled and lost expecting both spots to be filled by prospects promoted too early, or, hoping for fast progression. Buxton is here, and I believe in him given time and patience. But still, haven't we been rolling this position to "whoever" the past few seasons? We've had success with inexpensive RP in the past who have paid huge dividends. But is that really what a team on the cusp of truly competing needs to push them over the edge? Please don't try to tell me that using Fien's $2+Mil plus another $5-8M for a pair of top quality RP would haven broken payroll. And when the young RP studs do make it up, hopefully soon, unless the bottom of the market just falls out, don't tell me the Twins wouldn't have trade partners. Ultimately, with the Santana and Hughes signings, (Hughes shouldn't have been extended no matter what), the Nolasco signing became superfluous. And it's really a shame, because his contract could have been applied to a major trade or FA signing. But we need to stop dropping the "everything is wrong because of" card on one player and one move. It's just not true. What will be ultimately deciding TR as the Twins GM is what happens this year. I respect the attitude of not giving in, of not accepting failure, or a true rebuild state of thinking. But the simpleft fact is....the Twins HAVE BEEN rebuilding. But at some point this season, with arms like Berrios, Duffey, and a slew of talented RP getting very close, with big stuff, and May stuck in the pen when he also has SP potential, the Twins may be in the envious but uncomfortable position to trade away veteran assets to make room for the future. (Yes, this may also include Plouffe to make room for Kepler) These kind of decisions/moves may determine the length and legacy of Ryan as the Twins GM.

I take that as a compliment Jimmer. I think. LOL 2015 we opened on the road for 6 games against the Tigers and Chisox. Both teams, as I recall, we're expected to be at least decent, though they didn't necessary turn out that way. The results: 0-4 L 0-11 L 1-7 L 6-0 W 4-5 L 2-6 L 13 Runs scored, 33 given up. Average margin in losses, 5.2 runs. (Shudder) 2016 through 6 games: 2-3 L 2-4 L 2-4 L 3-4 L 0-7 L 3-4 L 12 runs scored, 22 runs given up. Average margin in losses, 3.66. Is this a happy thing? Absolutely not. And truthfully, I can't recall any of the 2015 losses well enough to remember if we were competitive or not, or held any leads or not. But memory, and memory of eye-test had us looking pretty darn lousy. The talent level of the 2016, flaws and all, still would seem to exceed the early '15 team. The competitive nature of the games played, the closeness of the losses, the average margin of losses, all would seem to indicate this lousy begining is still better than the lousy begining to 2015. Look, lousy is lousy. But through 6 games last year vs this year, we are only down 1 game, and would still seem to have a better roster to work with going forward.

I am as frustrated and disappointed as anyone, but a quick reality check, please. At this point last season, almost, the Twins were 1-7, and looked absolutely terrible. I mean, almost embarrassing and it was a wonder they won a single game. Am I a fan of the moves TR has made, and not made, the past two off seasons? Absolutely not. But after their putrid start, they righted the ship and began to play better ball and won 83 games and we're in contention up until the final week. Despite being a very disappointing and frustrating 0-6, this team has already played better than the 2015 version, and on paper at least, looks better and has better potential. To even contemplate 0-whatever is kind of unrealistic isn't it?

I believe you are 100% correct, age should be a consideration. But, and I believe this is Seth's point, age must always be tempered. Even if a top college signed finishes his HS career and graduates at 17, he probably turns 18 before arriving on campus. Assuming he plays immediately and doesn't redshirt his first year, (no clue what percentage do), he's playing at age 18 or maybe 19. Three years later, he's selected in the June draft, and is, at the youngest, 20 about to turn 21, or even 22. If he doesn't like his draft spot and goes back for his senior season, he's draft at age 21 or 22. For many reasons, we know college players don't step right in to a ML lineup or staff, with very, very little exception, until they have at least a year or so under their belt in the minors. The 21-22 yo player who arrives ready to make an immediate impact is a top 5 HS draftee or foreign amateur signee of outstanding natural ability who therefore wouldnt, generally, attend college anyway. That is not to demean college baseball players, simply a fact based on raw, natural ability and potential vs a young athlete who simply needs more time to develop.

Ultimately, Escobar may be better lower in the lineup knocking some guys in and helping turn the roster over. BUT...with Mauer actually hitting, why not bat him 3rd and Escobar in the 2 hole for now?